Hexblade 1 / Ancients Paladin 8 - what next?

[Fryy]

Hmm... This character is now level 9 in AL. I am considering either going 2 Hex / 18 Pal or 1 Hex / 19 Pal.
V Human: Str 13, Dex 14, Con 19 (Amulet, otherwise 13), Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 20
ASI's taken: Lucky, +2 Cha, +2 Cha
Misc Magic: Goggles of Night, Amulet of Health, Winged Boots

2 levels of Hex would give Agonizing Blast. Then the character could position themselves to maximize the # of party members covered by the Paladin Auras rather than getting into melee.

Any thoughts on what you would do with levels 10-20 for this type of character?

[OldTrees1]

I find 1/3rd Warlock to 2/3rds Paladin is a nice ratio.
Warlock 5 / Paladin 9 for example is a short rest Paladin with 3rd level slots.

I played that in a Princes of the Apocalypse AL game. It worked very very well.

[Fryy]

I find 1/3rd Warlock to 2/3rds Paladin is a nice ratio.
Warlock 5 / Paladin 9 for example is a short rest Paladin with 3rd level slots.

I played that in a Princes of the Apocalypse AL game. It worked very very well.

How did you build out the Warlock side?

[OldTrees1]

How did you build out the Warlock side?

Got up to Paladin of the Ancients 11 / Hexblade 5 IIRC.
My level path Criminal / Pal 2 / War 1 / Pal +5 / War +2 / Pal +2 / War + 2 / Pal +

Warlock choices of note
Patron Hexblade (refluffed as GOO)
Pact Chain (telepathic relay familiar)
Invocations: Repelling Blast, Agonizing Blast, ??? (I might have forgotten to take a 3rd)
Spell slots: Hex or a Paladin spell
ASI: Inspiring Leader and Cha 20

Favorite Tactic: Request a friendly fire fireball.

However some of these choices were character specific. It was a former guild thief trying to be a small beacon of hope in the world, while also slowly being driven insane by contact with azathoth through a magical lantern.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Currently running a very similar Ancients 9/Hexblade 2. I'd recommend taking Hex 2 next, because Agonizing/Repelling is a blast :smallbiggrin:.

If you're going to play a tank, it's nice to have a turret with a cannon.

[ezekielraiden]

If you go further Warlock, cutoff points would seem to be the following:
Warlock 2 (Invocations)
Warlock 4 (ASI)
Warlock 5 (3rd level slots, additional invocation)
Warlock 7 (4th level slots, additional invocation)

Looking further with Paladin, you'll probably want to get Paladin 11 for Improved Divine Smite, and Paladin 15 gets you essentially your last major features that you'll qualify for.

From where I'm sitting, an overall Paladin 15/Warlock 5 looks like a pretty solid mix. You could go for Paladin 12/Warlock 8 overall, but I think that is a little too mixed together--admittedly, you get 4th level Warlock spells that way, but it seems a bit too mish-mash-y. Warlock 5 compensates for your lost Paladin 19 ASI, gets you an additional invocation, 3rd level Warlock spell slots and spells known, and doesn't require you to delay Imp. Divine Smite very long. Plus, the Hexblade 6 feature is kinda meh, and may or may not make sense for your character's theme anyway.

Alternating levels between Warlock and Paladin from here until you hit Warlock 5 should do you just fine. That is, take Warlock at even character levels and Paladin at odd character levels until you have Warlock 5, and then stick with Paladin the rest of the way.

[Fryy]

I think I will go ahead with picking up Hex lvl 2 for Repelling and Agonizing blast. And then see how it plays before deciding on whether to go to Hex lvl 5.

[Hael]

I think I will go ahead with picking up Hex lvl 2 for Repelling and Agonizing blast. And then see how it plays before deciding on whether to go to Hex lvl 5.

The 15/5 split is probably advised, though when you take those lvls is somewhat build and campaign specific. You turn into a nova monster with that build.

You give up fifth lvl paladin spells for four invocations (including eldritch smite), rechargeable smite slots, a pact and of course scaling and cc options with eb, as well as some good lock spell choices.

Otoh holy weapon is a super strong concentration spell, so I’d say it depends where you want to position yourself and what your damage source is (melee or ranged)

[nickl_2000]

Currently running a very similar Ancients 9/Hexblade 2. I'd recommend taking Hex 2 next, because Agonizing/Repelling is a blast :smallbiggrin:.

If you're going to play a tank, it's nice to have a turret with a cannon.

BOOOO!!

Dad pun aside, it's good advice.

[OldTrees1]

12 : 8 split gives +1 ASI/feat but you are SAD so that is not a big deal
13 : 7 split is ideal for Paladin Spellcasting and Invocations. You get roughly 7 4th level spells per day. This was my route but with a lower level cap.
14 : 6 split is a bit odd. You get Cleansing Touch and Accursed Specter. Those will be thematic choices for some character, but not all.
15 : 5 split gives you Undying Sentinel. While this is sometimes a decent ability, it will almost never come up because 9 : 5 unlocked a massive amount of healing and you are high enough level that there is excessive hp to burn through. And it is a long rest ability when you have been a short rest character.

None of these is a bad choice, but I strongly prefer 13 : 7 over the alternatives. That (2N-1) : N ratio is really nice.

[Keravath]

The 15/5 split is probably advised, though when you take those lvls is somewhat build and campaign specific. You turn into a nova monster with that build.

You give up fifth lvl paladin spells for four invocations (including eldritch smite), rechargeable smite slots, a pact and of course scaling and cc options with eb, as well as some good lock spell choices.

Otoh holy weapon is a super strong concentration spell, so I’d say it depends where you want to position yourself and what your damage source is (melee or ranged)

Level 5 warlock is only 3 invocations.

One thing to carefully consider is the 30' paladin auras at level 18. This is an amazingly useful feature for your group at level 20. It extends all your auras - saving throws, aura of warding (resistance to spell damage), aura of courage (immunity to fear) out to 30' from your character often protecting the entire party. I'm not sure that a couple of short rest 3rd level spell slots along with the eldritch smite for a bit more damage is a worthwhile trade off considering you need to take blade pact and eldritch smite only works with your pact weapon.

(Since it is AL, you may actually reach level 20 and I have seen folks pull out their level 20s to play tier 4 content just because they like playing them so if you are in that category, you may want to think about how you want it to play at level 20 and make choices that you will enjoy along the way as well as in the endgame).

[OldTrees1]

One thing to carefully consider is the 30' paladin auras at level 18. This is an amazingly useful feature for your group at level 20. It extends all your auras - saving throws, aura of warding (resistance to spell damage), aura of courage (immunity to fear) out to 30' from your character often protecting the entire party. I'm not sure that a couple of short rest 3rd level spell slots along with the eldritch smite for a bit more damage is a worthwhile trade off considering you need to take blade pact and eldritch smite only works with your pact weapon.

Depends on the party. Ancients Paladins are known for walking around in "Fireball Us" formation. It is a solid 5x5 area they protect.

I would not recommend Eldritch Smite. Blade Pact is an option, but Tome is useful and I went Chain.

The main benefit of trading away Paladin 18 for Warlock 5/7 is the altered spell volume per day. 7 4th level spells vs 3 4th, and 1 5th. Paladins have some nice 3rd - 5th level spells. Getting more 3rd - 4th can be worth losing 5th and getting a decreased aura radius.

[Hael]

Level 5 warlock is only 3 invocations.

One thing to carefully consider is the 30' paladin auras at level 18.

Yea, sorry that was a typo. That’s what I mean about where the paladin is positioned. If he’s melee, having an ES is amazing bc of the prone cc, and the extra melee invocations might be relevant.

If he sits back with the casters and eb spams, then going to lock 2 or 3 is more what you want. At that point the choice is aura range vs pact of the tome/chain. The latter gives scouting if ur party wants, the former of course gives rituals and cantrips. Depends on party comp and where the aura goes.

[Fryy]

Hmm... wow, nice beak down of the level split options!

4th level rechargeable slots is enticing. Even with 1 short rest per day that's 4 4th levels plus 1 from Paladin plus likely 1 from a Rod of Pactkeeper... so 6 4th levels on an avg day... vs 3 4th and 1 5th for a 2/18 split build.

I think I would get Eldritch Smite for the stacking melee smites when really, really necessary. So, Repelling, Agonizing, ES, and something else(?).

[ezekielraiden]

Hmm... wow, nice beak down of the level split options!

4th level rechargeable slots is enticing. Even with 1 short rest per day that's 4 4th levels plus 1 from Paladin plus likely 1 from a Rod of Pactkeeper... so 6 4th levels on an avg day... vs 3 4th and 1 5th for a 2/18 split build.

I think I would get Eldritch Smite for the stacking melee smites when really, really necessary. So, Repelling, Agonizing, ES, and something else(?).

Keep in mind that you either have to park your Paladin levels essentially for the rest of your career (you can't get Warlock 7 until character level 15), or delay getting those 5th level spells until even later. Yes, they provide a power boost, but I'd argue that 3 more levels of Paladin are a comparable or bigger benefit you can get sooner, giving you an extra 1d8 on every melee attack.

[Alucard89]

Go for Improved Divine Smite and finish rest with Warlock.

So total 12/8 split.

You are already level 8 Paladin so I would stick to it for level 11 IDS and level 12 ASI and then divine more into Hexblade.

Unless you are really missing range attack option then you may want to get 2nd level of Hexblade first but otherwise- go for IDS and ASI.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Go for Improved Divine Smite and finish rest with Warlock.

So total 12/8 split.

You are already level 8 Paladin so I would stick to it for level 11 IDS and level 12 ASI and then divine more into Hexblade.

Unless you are really missing range attack option then you may want to get 2nd level of Hexblade first but otherwise- go for IDS and ASI.

I have no idea whether you're objectively correct about that. But once I've reached 12th paladin, it'd be very tempting to go to 13 paladin for that Find Greater Steed (and maybe use 12th ASI for Mounted Combatant?). Flight without concentration and 4th level slots seems a little too good to pass up if you're already sitting there one level away at 12th.

[Fryy]

I have no idea whether you're objectively correct about that. But once I've reached 12th paladin, it'd be very tempting to go to 13 paladin for that Find Greater Steed (and maybe use 12th ASI for Mounted Combatant?). Flight without concentration and 4th level slots seems a little too good to pass up if you're already sitting there one level away at 12th.

Agreed. Find Greater Steed is too tempting to concede. That said, getting Mounted Combatant means not getting either War Caster or Resilient (Constitution).

I am now leaning towards either 5/15 or 7/13.
OldTrees1 and other made some good points for a larger Hex dip than 2/18.
Thanks, all, for all the input.

Progression from 1/8 to 5/13:
2 Hex / 9 Pal - Agonizing/Repelling Blast, 3rd level Paladin spells (Aura of Vitality)
Option (1):
4 Hex / 9 Pal - ASI (War Caster or Res Con), 2nd & 3rd level Warlock spells
5 Hex / 13 Pal - Aura-Courage, Impr Div Smite, ASI (Mounted Combatant), Find Gtr Steed , 4th level Paladin spells
Option (2):
2 Hex / 13 Pal - Aura-Courage, Impr Div Smite, ASI (Mounted Combatant), Find Gtr Steed , 4th level Paladin spells
5 Hex / 13 Pal - ASI (War Caster or Res Con), 2nd & 3rd level Warlock spells

[OldTrees1]

Progression from 1/8 to 5/13:
2 Hex / 9 Pal - Agonizing/Repelling Blast, 3rd level Paladin spells (Aura of Vitality)
Option (1):
4 Hex / 9 Pal - ASI (War Caster or Res Con), 2nd & 3rd level Warlock spells
5 Hex / 13 Pal - Aura-Courage, Impr Div Smite, ASI (Mounted Combatant), Find Gtr Steed , 4th level Paladin spells
Option (2):
2 Hex / 13 Pal - Aura-Courage, Impr Div Smite, ASI (Mounted Combatant), Find Gtr Steed , 4th level Paladin spells
5 Hex / 13 Pal - ASI (War Caster or Res Con), 2nd & 3rd level Warlock spells

You could divide it up even further. Warlock tends to have a nice feature every level. Paladin tends to have a very very nice feature every other level. Consider working backwards by making a chain of break points. My preferences below.
7 Hex <-- 5 Hex <-- 3 Hex <-- 2 Hex <-- 1 Hex <-- 0 Hex
13 Pal <-- 11 Pal <-- 9 Pal <-- 7 Pal <-- 6 Pal <-- 5 Pal <-- 2 Pal <-- 0 Pal
I prefered Paladin spells over Hexblade spells but I liked to catch up the short rest slots.
7 Hex <-- 13 Pal <-- 5 Hex <-- 9 Pal <-- 3 Hex <-- 5 Pal <-- 1 Hex <-- 2 Pal <-- 0 Pal
So next was to figure out where to place 11 Pal, 7 Pal, 6 Pal, and 2 Hex. This was made easier for me in that I loved the auras more than keeping the magic in sync.
3 Hex <-- 2 Hex <-- 7 Pal <-- 5 Pal
Resulting plan for my character
7 Hex <-- 13 Pal <-- 11 Pal <-- 5 Hex <-- 9 Pal <-- 3 Hex <-- 2 Hex <-- 7 Pal <-- 5 Pal <-- 1 Hex <-- 2 Pal <-- 0 Pal

So if it were me, I would do Option 1 but it really depends on which desired features you want to defer to later.

[Alucard89]

I have no idea whether you're objectively correct about that. But once I've reached 12th paladin, it'd be very tempting to go to 13 paladin for that Find Greater Steed (and maybe use 12th ASI for Mounted Combatant?). Flight without concentration and 4th level slots seems a little too good to pass up if you're already sitting there one level away at 12th.

I was aiming for maximizing smite slots (4th level slots for Warlock) + not loosing ASI. 12/8 gives you both.

13/7 you lose ASI. 16/4 you lose higher level lock slots for double smites.

FGS is great but I was to go for level 13 then I would want 15 for feature and Aura and then 16 for ASI so in the end I would just go 18/2 in the end to be honest or 16/4.

12/8 is my sweet spot for Hexadin if I want to go for more lock levels.

Otherwise I just go 1/19 or 2/18 if I don't consider other classes.

Other good way would be 1 Hex/6 Pala/13 Sorc to finish which would be most optimized but he is already level 8 paladin.

[Falconcry]

I’m setup much the same hex 1/ OoA 5. I was planning to take 2 more warlock for Tome then 9 levels of sword bard. My party are all paladin 1 / something else X.