Does Fire burn in Astral?

[Hilary]

Do fires burn on the Astral plane?

[sithlordnergal]

I believe it does, yes. It has air, otherwise creatures would be unable to survive if their bodies were transported to it. And as near as I can tell, the Astral Plane is not like the Plane of Water where you can drown/suffocate. As long as you have fuel, it should burn

[HappyDaze]

Do fires burn on the Astral plane?

In D&D, fire (at least magical fire) can burn underwater--even though creatures get Resistance to the damage, it can still be used just fine for heat & light (assuming it says it provides those things). As for real fire on the astral, sure, why not?

[MrStabby]

A lack of gravity might cause some issues and limit the size of any fire... but magical fire damage is probably fire as are explosions

[Millstone85]

I believe it does, yes. It has air, otherwise creatures would be unable to survive if their bodies were transported to it. And as near as I can tell, the Astral Plane is not like the Plane of Water where you can drown/suffocate. As long as you have fuel, it should burnI don't have a quote for this, but I was under the impression that a fish would also survive in the Astral. What feels like air to other creatures would feel like water to it.

[HappyDaze]

A lack of gravity might cause some issues and limit the size of any fire... but magical fire damage is probably fire as are explosions

Lack of gravity only matters if your fire needs science to work. There's no reason that the elemental force of fire is the same as RL combustion. For all we know, it's merely a transmutation effect with a heat/light/smoke trapping.

[MrStabby]

Lack of gravity only matters if your fire needs science to work. There's no reason that the elemental force of fire is the same as RL combustion. For all we know, it's merely a transmutation effect with a heat/light/smoke trapping.

Its true - you can have fire that burns under water, that burns ice that doesn't need air at all... I was classing that as the magic fire - but it could be any.

[SunderedWorldDM]

The way I rule the Astral plane is that it works lie you assume reality does. If you go in and fire has burned all your life by default, it will burn on the Astral. If you've been breathing, you can breathe on the Astral. If you've been around gravity and walk on a surface, you're attracted to it as normal in the Astral. Since the Astral plane is composed, at least partially, by humanoid thought, assumptions rule.

[Hilary]

Here is what I read that made me ask this question:

"Time in the Astral flowed at the same rate on a Prime Material plane but the effects of time were slowed almost to a stop―a thousand years in the Astral plane felt like only a day to the traveler. Creatures did not go hungry or age while in the Astral plane. For that reason, its mortal inhabitants needed to return to the Material Plane in order to have children or to reach adulthood."

That's from forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Astral_Plane

So, it seemed to me, that chemical reactions are stopped. Your body doesn't age. You cannot create life. You don't need food or water. The mutton sandwich you ate before entering the astral plane sits in your guts, unmoving, undigested until you go back.

So it seemed to me that you could not light a fire. A candle already lit would stop burning if taken to the Astral plane. Acid would not react with things. Batteries would not work.

Magic stuff would still work, 'cause it's magic. But mundane events requiring 'aging' would not. An hour glass would still work, if you could make gravity (by swinging it around in a circle).

But if things don't age, then can they die? Your body can take damage, but without the need for blood to be pumped to your brain, can you die? Or are you conscious if cut into tiny pieces?

Questions.

I only ask internal consistency. I will accept any answers that allow for an internally consistent world.

[HappyDaze]

Since the Astral plane is composed, at least partially, by humanoid thought, assumptions rule.

What happens when opposing assumptions collide?

[Nifft]

"Time in the Astral flowed at the same rate on a Prime Material plane but the effects of time were slowed almost to a stop―a thousand years in the Astral plane felt like only a day to the traveler. Creatures did not go hungry or age while in the Astral plane. For that reason, its mortal inhabitants needed to return to the Material Plane in order to have children or to reach adulthood."

In a world like ours where brains = minds and chemical reactions are how a mind thinks, there is no consistent interpretation of the quoted text.

You cannot experience a lack of hunger while using your body's energy to fuel the feeling of that experience.

Something alien to our understanding of real-world physics must be going on.



(Spoiler: it's magic.)

[Joe the Rat]

Only if the fire thinks it should.

[Evaar]

So, it seemed to me, that chemical reactions are stopped.

I think that's extrapolating too far using real world science.

It's a magical plane. Chemical reactions are clearly not stopped, because inhabitants of the Astral Plane can still experience things and learn new things. See the Githyanki racial features.


Decadent Mastery
You learn one language of your choice, and you are proficient with one skill or tool of your choice. In the timeless city of Tu'narath, githyanki have bountiful time to master odd bits of knowledge.

But I think labeling anything in D&D as a function of chemical reactions is probably a mistake. It's not a scientific world.

Fire in D&D behaves more or less like real world fire, but it's an element. It's one of the core building blocks of reality. It's not a process or reaction, but very much its own thing. So just like water or earth or air, it can exist on the astral plane.

Now, if you like, you might say it doesn't consume fuel while burning there. A candle stays lit, but the wick doesn't burn down. That's a reasonable take, given that living beings don't require caloric intake while on the Astral Plane, but they continue to function.

[Willie the Duck]

I only ask internal consistency. I will accept any answers that allow for an internally consistent world.

This is going to be a huge stumbling block, as what is described is self-inconsistent, but let's go...


Here is what I read that made me ask this question:

"Time in the Astral flowed at the same rate on a Prime Material plane but the effects of time were slowed almost to a stop―a thousand years in the Astral plane felt like only a day to the traveler. Creatures did not go hungry or age while in the Astral plane. For that reason, its mortal inhabitants needed to return to the Material Plane in order to have children or to reach adulthood."

That's from forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Astral_Plane

So, it seemed to me, that chemical reactions are stopped. Your body doesn't age. You cannot create life. You don't need food or water. The mutton sandwich you ate before entering the astral plane sits in your guts, unmoving, undigested until you go back.
The self-consistent interpretation of the text is that all of this is indeed stopped (or moving at <365,250x the previous pace, if the distinction matters, assume this caveat for the rest of the discussion), but that that ought to mean that all chemical and biological processes -- including moving, sensing, experiencing, and so forth -- ought also to be stopped. A person entering the Astral should be in effective stasis.


So it seemed to me that you could not light a fire. A candle already lit would stop burning if taken to the Astral plane. Acid would not react with things. Batteries would not work.
A candle should not be further consumed, for sure, but it probably can't go out wither because the process of being extinguished is itself a process.


Magic stuff would still work, 'cause it's magic. But mundane events requiring 'aging' would not. An hour glass would still work, if you could make gravity (by swinging it around in a circle).
'this magical thing that progresses second-by-second works in this magical timeless zone because it is magic, despite other things not working because they aren't' is an acceptable, but arbitrary, decision.


But if things don't age, then can they die? Your body can take damage, but without the need for blood to be pumped to your brain, can you die? Or are you conscious if cut into tiny pieces?

You shouldn't be conscious at all, cut in to pieces or otherwise.

[SunderedWorldDM]

What happens when opposing assumptions collide?

What do you mean like this? Do you mean when two creatures with different assumptions of how things work interact on the Astral plane?

First, probably pretty rare, so you won't have to worry about it for 99% of Astral scenarios, especially considering the native Astral creatures are used to interacting with us limited meat-bags who shape the place with our thoughts and their assumptions don't collide with ours.

In the case of something really radical, like a giant fish entering the Astral alongside the human, the most radical assumption trumps and everything follows from that. The fish would assume there was water in the Astral the same way we assume there is air, so water would happen. Fish brains are simpler, so their convictions are stronger- they don't have space to second guess or philosophically think about a world without water the same way we can. The human has assumptions about how water works, so they start drowning and such and so forth. Once they get far enough away from the fish that its assumptions stop shaping the Astral plane (which for a fish isn't terribly far), their assumptions (like air) reassert themselves.

Hope that makes sense.

[HappyDaze]

What do you mean like this? Do you mean when two creatures with different assumptions of how things work interact on the Astral plane?

First, probably pretty rare, so you won't have to worry about it for 99% of Astral scenarios, especially considering the native Astral creatures are used to interacting with us limited meat-bags who shape the place with our thoughts and their assumptions don't collide with ours.

In the case of something really radical, like a giant fish entering the Astral alongside the human, the most radical assumption trumps and everything follows from that. The fish would assume there was water in the Astral the same way we assume there is air, so water would happen. Fish brains are simpler, so their convictions are stronger- they don't have space to second guess or philosophically think about a world without water the same way we can. The human has assumptions about how water works, so they start drowning and such and so forth. Once they get far enough away from the fish that its assumptions stop shaping the Astral plane (which for a fish isn't terribly far), their assumptions (like air) reassert themselves.

Hope that makes sense.

Interesting take. Not saying I like it or agree with it, but it's thought provoking. Thank you for that.

[Samayu]

What happens when opposing assumptions collide?

"Wait, how can you fly? I can't fly!"