most powerful 1st level dip?

[newguydude1]

my dm is raw or die, and only allows 1st party books. no dragon magazine, no web content, no homebrew, no house rules, and employs multiclass penalty.

i want to go wizard13. grab improved familiar at 7 for mirror mephit and start casting simulacrum at 13 and wish at 17. i literally dont care about anything else. i repeat i literally dont care about anything else. id go sorcerer if they didnt have the level delay. thats how much i dont care about the other spells wizards have to offer.

improved familiar, simulacrum, wish.

now the problem i see however is that wizards suck at low levels.
unlike druids they got no animal companion. wild cohort is web.
unlike clerics they dont have dmm fell animate or dmm persistent spell
i could grab wild talent, psicrystal affinity, and elemental envoy, and add fiery burst reserve feat on top of that but the geodite doesnt scale into late, and using him at level 4-6 is not smart. psions at least had vigor to keep him alive. wizard has nothing.
the ua necromancer variant that gives me a warrior skeleton, i have to sacrifice my familiar which is no no

so i want to take a dip at 1st level and have that dip carry me until level 7.

i thought about going ur priest, taking a dip in contemplative for the envy domain to cast simulacrum that way and forgetting about wizard after 3 levels + practiced spellcaster, but ur priest's special requirement (need to be trained by another urpriest) is too difficult. my dm said i get access to an ur priest if i can teleport one to me. something like identify transgressor + mirror mephit's simulacrum, but thats a little late of an entry. 7+9=16th level for simulacrum. if im gonna do that might as well go mystic theurge with druid3

so the best i could come up with is druid1 with natural bond to get a medium earth elemental, or one of those 4th level druid animal companions. is there something better? if i could get at least dmm persistent mass lesser vigor id be happy. but no healing on a no dr creature is not gonna last more than an encounter.

so then i thought, lets ask the playground for help. i am reluctant to take more than 1 level of the other class as it delays simulacrum by a level and i doubt mirror mephit simulacrum stays relevant at level 14 or 15. his simulacra hd is 8.

[Twurps]

dip sorcerer.
And since you're now on par with a wizard who takes a dip at 1st level: continue it all the way to lvl17.

I'm actually only parting kidding here. You can take battle sorcerer (UA), for better HP's and bab (which matter at least at lvl 1 in my experience), and still have more spells than a wizard.
Sure there's a lot more powerfull dips at lvl 1, but there really isn't any 1 lvl dip at lvl1 that's going to really help you past lvl 3-ish.

[tiercel]

If you’re determined to dip, it should be mentioned that Dipping Cleric 1 (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2773.0) is literally a handbook.

[Gorthawar]

You could play a stalwart battle sorcerer (CM and UA) and gain 1d8+2+Con HP per level together with medium BaB which is pretty decent with improved familiar. Swap your familiar for an animal companion (half druid level but should help past the initial levels -UA) and then get the familar back using a feat. If you take combat casting at some point you can take levels in Abjurant Champion (CM) which will get you to 16 BaB and Full casting at level 20.

[Gruftzwerg]

...

improved familiar, simulacrum, wish.

now the problem i see however is that wizards suck at low levels.
...


If that is all you want, and you are not class bound, how about a total different approach with a craft-lock ?

Simulacrum and Wish aren't the spells that you are gonna spam on a daily basis I would assume.
If that if true , using UMD with scrolls becomes a valid option.

Warlock 12 / Chameleon 2 is a good base that can craft almost anything. (the scrolls for simulacrum & wish)

You'll get access to Wish (craft & use) faster due to how the craft-lock works. If you buy scrolls you can cast em very early (both before lvl 13, depending on your UMD/CHA optimization). You can start to craft your own scrolls beginning at lvl 14 (12 if you drop Chameleon and just take Scribe Scrolls as normal feat).

Obtain Familiar feat allows Warlocks to have familiars.

edit:
and if you want to go sorcerer without delay > "DWK Sorcerer with Greater Draconic Rite of Passage" gets Simulacrum and Wish at the same lvls as wizards do.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You don't want to use Sorcerer because of the delayed spell level acquisition, but you're going to dip a level of something else and delay your spell level acquisition?

Trade the default familiar class feature for a half progression animal companion (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererWizard) from UA, and use the feat Obtain Familiar (CA) to get a familiar back. That has the added benefit of counting any Wizard-progressing prestige class levels toward your familiar's benefits as well. You can use Natural Bond to make your animal companion a bit stronger. Once you're high enough level that the companion isn't much help any more, use the PH2 retraining rules to swap that out for something else.

Alternatively, make a Conjurer and trade the default familiar feature for Abrupt Jaunt in PH2, which significantly increases survivability as it allows you to automatically avoid an attack. Again use the feat Obtain Familiar to get that back, in which case prestige classing won't make your familiar weaker.

[Anthrowhale]

If I wanted to spam Simulacrum and Wish, I might look into Cleric 1/Wizard 4/Dweomerkeeper 10 taking Spell Mastery at level 3 and Uncanny Forethought at level 6.

Edit: Even better---take Silverbrow Human Wizard 5/Singer of Concordance 2/Dweomerkeeper 10 with Spell Mastery, Uncanny Forethought, and Scribe Scroll at level 1, Southern Magician at level 3, <some metamagic> at level 5, Obtain Familiar at level 6, and Improved Familiar at level 9. Use the Animal companion ACF at first level for extra robustness.

[newguydude1]

If you’re determined to dip, it should be mentioned that Dipping Cleric 1 (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2773.0) is literally a handbook.

i did read it but i dont think any of them are strong enough to carry me to 7.


hen get the familar back using a feat.

interesting! i didnt think about this!

which is better? animal companion + natural bond, or a warrior skeleton with the fire skeleton template?
is elemental companion acf available to this wizard/sorcerer?


You don't want to use Sorcerer because of the delayed spell level acquisition, but you're going to dip a level of something else and delay your spell level acquisition?

sorcerer isnt as strong as a druid. but i didnt know about that ua variant class feature. wizards can grab that too so ill probably go wizard with that.


Obtain Familiar feat allows Warlocks to have familiars.

improved familiar needs arcane caster levels


If I wanted to spam Simulacrum and Wish, I might look into Cleric 1/Wizard 4/Dweomerkeeper 10 taking Spell Mastery at level 3 and Uncanny Forethought at level 6.

Edit: Even better---take Silverbrow Human Wizard 5/Singer of Concordance 2/Dweomerkeeper 10 with Spell Mastery, Uncanny Forethought, and Scribe Scroll at level 1, Southern Magician at level 3, <some metamagic> at level 5, Obtain Familiar at level 6, and Improved Familiar at level 9. Use the Animal companion ACF at first level for extra robustness.

dweomerkeeper is webcontent.



ok so what i got so far is pure wizard with either fire skeleton warrior or animal companion + natural bond. the first requires 100gp per death and the latter is free.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

improved familiar needs arcane caster levels

dweomerkeeper is webcontent.

Warlocks have an arcane caster level (CA p18).

Dweomerkeeper is in Faiths and Pantheons, a hardcover Forgotten Realms book from WotC. The web article only updates it to 3.5 edition, just like the 3.5 update booklet (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a) provides official 3.5 updates for a lot of 3.0 material, and the errata (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata) provides official updates to the core rules.

[Gruftzwerg]

improved familiar needs arcane caster levels


Yeah? Warlocks qualify for that (same as Obtain Familiar) by RAW.

edit: to slow..^^ Biffoniacus_Furiou was faster..

[newguydude1]

ok but warlocks are still bad.

1. item creation cannot ignore the creature component of simulacrum. eschew materials only works on spells you cast not scrolls you scribe. summon component only works with spells you know not spells you umd. if it werent for this id be crafting scrolls of simulacrum using the mirror mephit to provide the spell.
2. animal companion + fiery burst reserve feat i think beats whatever the warlock can do until level 7. correct me if im wrong though.

[Gruftzwerg]

ok but warlocks are still bad.

1. item creation cannot ignore the creature component of simulacrum. eschew materials only works on spells you cast not scrolls you scribe. summon component only works with spells you know not spells you umd. if it werent for this id be crafting scrolls of simulacrum using the mirror mephit to provide the spell.
2. animal companion + fiery burst reserve feat i think beats whatever the warlock can do until level 7. correct me if im wrong though.

1. Imbue Item (II) only cares for the item creation XP and G costs. You don't cast the spell and thus don't need to provide any spell components. Yeah II is that cheesy.

for reference

A warlock of 12th level or higher can use his supernatural power to create magic items, even if he does not know the spells required to make an item (although he must know the appropriate item creation feat). He can substitute a Use Magic Device check (DC 15 + spell level for arcane spells or 25 + spell level for divine spells) in place of a required spell he doesn't know or can't cast.

If the check succeeds, the warlock can create the item as if he had cast the required spell. If it fails, he cannot complete the item. He does not expend the XP or gp costs for making the item; his progress is simply arrested. He cannot retry this Use Magic Device check for that spell until he gains a new level.

You don't cast the spell, you just fake it.

And Scribe Scrolls only cares for "costly material component or an XP cost" anyway. So, it has eschew materials build-in.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see a problem here.


2. A lil complicated comprehension but I'll give it a try:

While Fire Burst (FB) is nice, it also has downsides. Reflex Save to half dmg (or zero with evasion). Can hit up to 4 medium sized targets but most of the time it won't be more than 1-2 (unless DM always clusters enemies because of ...whatsoever ****ty reason..^^). Fire is also one of the more common resistances and immunities iirc.

Eldritch Blast on the other hand is single target until you get some blast shapes (e.g. Eldritch Chain @lvl6 can reliably hit 2 targets). It needs a ranged touch attack, which is barely a problem imho. Since it's untyped dmg, it will always do full dmg. If you take Eldritch Speer you can snipe from really far distance.

And since FB is a feat, maybe we compare it with an early dmg boost for warlocks. The Mortalbane feat gives each of your SLAs 5 times a day 2d6 extra dmg. (ask your DM how he handles Eldritch Blast and his blast shapes and essences. even if he counts all EBs as one it is still worth it imho. you can later add other invocations that all get separate 5/day uses.)

Another good early warlock trick is Summon Swarm. You can kill most low lvl encounters with ease. Since most enemies won't have access to heal to stop the bleeding, they will die to you bat swarms, even if hit only once.
Abuse it with the Hide skill (get racial bonuses e.g. Kobold web enhancement version gives you +8 size modifier).
Or summon rats and stay safe with Spider Climb. Just be creative and swarm you enemies to death^^
Or combine it(rats/spiders) later with Invisibility (if you should take it at lvl 6). Endless possibilities to abuse on low lvl enemies.

Shatter turns into a swiss army knife if you have it at will. Doors, locks whatsoever, doesn't matter.. shatter anything that annoys you or tries to stop you from your dirty evil schemes.

Warlock ain't as squishy as wizards and sorcerers are on low lvls/without buffs. They have light armor, DR and d6 hp which is slightly better than the average rogue (due to the DR). Later you also get energy resistances.

edit: another great option to get at lvl 6 is Flee the Scene. This will turn you into an unstoppable force for your DM. Dimension Door into any buildings at will, rob every mercenary/vendor you come across. Make every rogue sad. Just annoy your DM to death xD
____________________
Imho there is no clear winner. Both have pros and cons. I tried to show some aspects where the warlock can shine, but so can wizards/sorcerers if build and played correct. But the warlock can still be a good alternative choice. Especially if you consider that you get access to those two high lvl spells (from scrolls) earlier than a regular spellcaster would learn em normally.

[newguydude1]

1. Imbue Item (II) only cares for the item creation XP and G costs. You don't cast the spell and thus don't need to provide any spell components. Yeah II is that cheesy.

for reference


You don't cast the spell, you just fake it.

And Scribe Scrolls only cares for "costly material component or an XP cost" anyway. So, it has eschew materials build-in.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see a problem here.

this is very important so lets get everything straight here.


he creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.

so dmg i think beats the feat description so you must provide noncostly material components.

your interpretation of imbue item suggests they can ignore all xp and material costs of scrolls. if that is true then thats amazing. if that is not true then this is where the warlock thing ends unfortunately.

i'll analyze what you said for 2. if you're right about warlocks ignoring material components for imbue item.



slight snafu with obtain familiar. for the necromancer variant

A necromancer using this variant permanently gives up the ability to obtain a familiar.
makes it sound like you cant have a familiar even with obtain familiar

but the animal companion:

These variants simply swap one or more of that class's features for one or more class features of another class. A class feature gained works just as it did for its original class, including the level at which it is gained and any other effects, except as noted below.

...
Lose

Familiar.

nothing about permanently giving up the ability to obtain a familiar so i guess ill be going wizard.

or warlock if imbue item lets me ignore material components.

[Gruftzwerg]

this is very important so lets get everything straight here.



so dmg i think beats the feat description so you must provide noncostly material components.
Yeah seems so. But I stay still by my argument about II.


your interpretation of imbue item suggests they can ignore all xp and material costs of scrolls. if that is true then thats amazing. if that is not true then this is where the warlock thing ends unfortunately.


I didn't imply that you ingore all XP and material costs for creating scrolls/items. Just that part that involves "casting the spell".
II implies that you fake the spell being cast, the dmg talks about the spell being triggered:

Likewise, a material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not. (A focus used in scribing a scroll can be reused.) The act of writing triggers the prepared spell,
making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

You must provide any spell components because of the spell being triggered/cast.
Imho II implies that you only need your UMD roll to fake the spell being cast and care for XP and gold needed to create the item. The hole process of casting the spell (and thus providing its material components and maybe xp expenses) gets faked.

[newguydude1]

I didn't imply that you ingore all XP and material costs for creating scrolls/items. Just that part that involves "casting the spell".
II implies that you fake the spell being cast, the dmg talks about the spell being triggered:


You must provide any spell components because of the spell being triggered/cast.
Imho II implies that you only need your UMD roll to fake the spell being cast and care for XP and gold needed to create the item. The hole process of casting the spell (and thus providing its material components and maybe xp expenses) gets faked.

so your saying a warlock can use imbue item to make a scroll of wish without paying the xp cost? if this is true then its amazing. but i gots to be sure. seems kinda too good to be true.

[Gruftzwerg]

so your saying a warlock can use imbue item to make a scroll of wish without paying the xp cost? if this is true then its amazing. but i gots to be sure. seems kinda too good to be true.

Imho by RAW yeah. But if you abuse it for Wish, watch out for rule book flying in your direction ;)
I can see how many DMs won't be happy about this, like with any other Wish loophole and will houserule it away (while claiming that this can't be RAW). So be careful with this in actual play and consider the optimization lvl of your table and how your DM thinks and feels about this^^
If you would over-abuse this, this will clearly lead to game breaking scenarios.

[Falontani]

Ready for the cheddar? I think you are.

Human
Cloistered (Unearthed Arcana) Cleric 1: Knowledge, Deathbound and either Undeath (Afflux from Libris Mortis CE, NE, LE, or N) or Necromancer (The Blood of Vol from ECS LN, LE, or NE) domain.
1) Fell Animate, Divine Metamagic: Fell Animate
2) Necromancer (Unearthed Arcana) Wizard: replace your familiar with an Skeletal Minion, and drop your specialist spell slot for Enhanced Undead. This works with non spell versions of undead creation, such as Fell Animate.
3) Wizard: Obtain Familiar
4) Wizard

Spontaneous Casting
A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can "lose" any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name).

An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric of an evil deity), can’t convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with "inflict" in its name).

A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (player’s choice). Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice also determines whether the cleric turns or commands undead. This does not require you to sacrifice cleric spells, but indeed can be used to sacrifice wizard spells! So as a full round action you can drop a second level wizard spell to cast Inflict Moderate Wounds at this point. The spell is still divine, still functions off of wisdom, still has no ASF, and still has a CL of 1 at the moment. There are many arguments a DM can try to make against this, with the main one being minimum caster level. We'll get around that eventually.
5) Wizard
6) Wizard: Improved Familiar, Spell Focus: Necromancy(b)
7) Wizard
8) Master Specialist (Heyyyy you have your familiar now! And Animate Dead. Your skeleton is now relegated to disposable)
9) Master Specialist: Practiced Spellcaster: Cleric Now your cleric caster level is 5, allowing you to spontaneously cast Inflict Serious Wounds from the above spoiler. You now have access to third level divine spells!
10) Master Specialist
11) Geomancer
12) Geomancer: Chain Spell (I suggest using this on Command Undead)
13) Geomancer
14) Geomancer
15) Geomancer: Craft Contingency Ok we all know that Contingencies are powerful. But there is a specific contingency I suggest, although you can wait until after you get wish if you want. Contingency: "If I die cast Create Undead on my corpse to animate me as a Bone Creature." (Book of Vile Darkness) Bone creature is only a template, and keeps your intelligence. So you'd alter all your HD to d12s, and gain +4 dex. Oh wait your an undead that you created aren't you, that means that Necromancer's stat bonus happens. D12+2s, +4 racial bonus to dex, and a permanent +4 enhancement bonus to str and dex! Oh and Weapon Finesse. Now you just need to figure out a way to die on a Desecrated area (I'm certain that won't be an issue.)
16) Geomancer
17) Geomancer
18) Geomancer: You have ninths! You can cast 7th level spells as divine spells with your int mod and without ASF. But you still have ninths, so you are probably not quite using armor.. or maybe you are. Remember you also have Wish! My feat suggest for this final feat would have to be Spontaneous Domain Caster.
19) Geomancer
20) Geomancer: Honestly, it was just to get 9th level spells as a divine spells, because you like armor.

[el minster]

The above post is pure cheese, but seriously you should just take sorcerer because it's easier to make it less squishy and you might as well not lose a caster level.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Druid3/wizard3/mystic theurge4/arcane Heirophant 10 gets double 9s with no cheese. Effective casting druid17 wizard 17.

Wildshape (for flying ) and natural spell keep you safe at low levels, druid buff spells help too. Get natural bond for a fleshraker dinosaur (pay for the Warbeast or magebred templates if you can), you'll have an animal companion and familiar from levels 4 through 10, then Heirophant combines them into 1 companion familiar.




EDIT actually that doesn’t get wild shape until 12...... go half orc racial substitution Druid so you get Augment Summons for free, that’ll help at low levels

[Telonius]

"RAW or die" - what race are you playing? This will matter a lot if the DM applies multiclass penalties.

[Doctor Despair]

I don't think you can be a bone creature; isn't it LA -, not LA 0?

[Falontani]

I don't think you can be a bone creature; isn't it LA -, not LA 0?

3.0 books did not mark one way or another until epic level handbook/fiend folio iirc; and even then the 3.0 level adjustment functioned differently than the 3.5 (read the different dmgs)

It is entirely within the dm's adjudication; however in game there is no difference in universe, so the contingency would still work for the character if not the player. I'd expect a conversation between dm and player before the player does do the process.

[Demidos]

It sounds like your game is pretty high op, so I'm a bit surprised you think wizard is weak early game --

Color spray, grease, and web alone should be enough to carry you through pretty much level 5, and Glitterdust/Invisibility/Haste should get you to at least level 7, in my experience. All of those are PHB only spells. Black tentacles and dimension door are also available at 4th. I'd say haste on two warriors-type allies is already at least equivalent to having a third warrior in the party just at level 5, and then you can cast more spells on further rounds to compound that.

Is your game so high optimization that these options aren't strong enough? (I'm genuinely curious, since if it is, that might seriously change the sort of options I need to suggest.)

[Falontani]

It sounds like your game is pretty high op, so I'm a bit surprised you think wizard is weak early game --

Color spray, grease, and web alone should be enough to carry you through pretty much level 5, and Glitterdust/Invisibility/Haste should get you to at least level 7, in my experience. All of those are PHB only spells. Black tentacles and dimension door are also available at 4th. I'd say haste on two warriors-type allies is already at least equivalent to having a third warrior in the party just at level 5, and then you can cast more spells on further rounds to compound that.

Is your game so high optimization that these options aren't strong enough? (I'm genuinely curious, since if it is, that might seriously change the sort of options I need to suggest.)

iirc OP had a build where he literally had to hide inside a box to not get killed, and had to use the box as a moving battle platform

[newguydude1]

Ready for the cheddar? I think you are.

nice build but it delayed improved familiar to 8 (unacceptable). but it has got me thinking a lot, about the using wizard spell slots for spontaneous cure wounds and possible illumian persistent spell. necromancy is a 2nd choice for me because body acquisition is a pain so i still prefer the animal companion.


3.0 books did not mark one way or another until epic level handbook/fiend folio iirc; and even then the 3.0 level adjustment functioned differently than the 3.5 (read the different dmgs)

It is entirely within the dm's adjudication; however in game there is no difference in universe, so the contingency would still work for the character if not the player. I'd expect a conversation between dm and player before the player does do the process.

i know my dms answer. its gonna be no. he believes in no leniency because raw is so powerful.


The above post is pure cheese, but seriously you should just take sorcerer because it's easier to make it less squishy and you might as well not lose a caster level.

sorcerer has delayed spell progression so wizard is still more preferable.


It sounds like your game is pretty high op, so I'm a bit surprised you think wizard is weak early game --

Color spray, grease, and web alone should be enough to carry you through pretty much level 5, and Glitterdust/Invisibility/Haste should get you to at least level 7, in my experience. All of those are PHB only spells. Black tentacles and dimension door are also available at 4th. I'd say haste on two warriors-type allies is already at least equivalent to having a third warrior in the party just at level 5, and then you can cast more spells on further rounds to compound that.

Is your game so high optimization that these options aren't strong enough? (I'm genuinely curious, since if it is, that might seriously change the sort of options I need to suggest.)

yup. relying on save or dies with like 60% success chance is gonna get me killed. game is high op. falontani is right i had to stay inside a stone box 24/7 with my psion to survive.


"RAW or die" - what race are you playing? This will matter a lot if the DM applies multiclass penalties.

any race within 3.0 and 3.5 that doesnt require dm leniency like making up an la.


Druid3/wizard3/mystic theurge4/arcane Heirophant 10 gets double 9s with no cheese. Effective casting druid17 wizard 17.

Wildshape (for flying ) and natural spell keep you safe at low levels, druid buff spells help too. Get natural bond for a fleshraker dinosaur (pay for the Warbeast or magebred templates if you can), you'll have an animal companion and familiar from levels 4 through 10, then Heirophant combines them into 1 companion familiar.




EDIT actually that doesn’t get wild shape until 12...... go half orc racial substitution Druid so you get Augment Summons for free, that’ll help at low levels

i dont care about dual 9ths. druid high level spells are nothing to write home about. i only care about simulacrum.

thanks everyone for trying to help me.

[Falontani]

with a single flaw you can take Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard and get your improved familiar at 7. Otherwise if you just need a single arcane CL of 7 you can be necromancy specialized. (spellgifted: Necromancy gives +1 CL)


the build also works with strongheart halfling, if you want small

[newguydude1]

with a single flaw you can take Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard and get your improved familiar at 7. Otherwise if you just need a single arcane CL of 7 you can be necromancy specialized. (spellgifted: Necromancy gives +1 CL)


the build also works with strongheart halfling, if you want small

flaws are allowed. we can have two.

as for the cl boost. my dm ruled arcane caster level and caster level for necromancy are two different things so the school specialization wont get me mirror mephtis any quicker. he also said temporary cl boosts have to last 24 hours for me to use it to get my mirror mephit.

[Falontani]

flaws are allowed. we can have two.

as for the cl boost. my dm ruled arcane caster level and caster level for necromancy are two different things so the school specialization wont get me mirror mephtis any quicker. he also said temporary cl boosts have to last 24 hours for me to use it to get my mirror mephit.

So Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard will get you your familiar at 7, feels like a bit of a wasted feat for only +1 CL; but the alternative is hoping to get that ioun stone that grants +1 to all caster levels or waiting a level.

[Gruftzwerg]

flaws are allowed. we can have two.

as for the cl boost. my dm ruled arcane caster level and caster level for necromancy are two different things so the school specialization wont get me mirror mephtis any quicker. he also said temporary cl boosts have to last 24 hours for me to use it to get my mirror mephit.

Create Magic Tattoo could be an option. A 2nd lvl Spell but you need it with 13clvl to give you +1clvl for 24h.
You would need to find someone with high enough clvl to cast it on you (as service) or buy a scroll of that lvl. The questions is, will it be available from the DM sides at that lvl?

[noob]

Try cleric 1, wizard 2, mystic theurge until you want a better wizard prc?
It gives a huge amount of bonus spell slots(but starts kicking in only at level 4 which is late) as well as some domains in exchange for delaying wizard progression of 1 level.
anyway why do you want to dip at first level?
Oh I got it.
Your most powerful first level wizard dip is wizard.
Never take more than 1 level in wizard thus it is a "dip"
Like wizard 1/master specialist x(involves bard sheanigans for temporary hit dice to raise skills high enough or lycanthropy that you then cure immediately)/shadowcraft mage or other kind of cheesy prcs.

[newguydude1]

ok someone finally answered my question thread here:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614451-scroll-crafting-questions-cooperative-slas-material-components-imbue-item

and according to him, cooperative crafting with wizard and mirror mephit lets me ignore the xp, material, and expensive material cost of simulacrum. and that changes everything.
now i dont care about delayed spell level acquisition.

the only things i care about now is
1. strongest possible levels 1-6.
2. improved familiar at level 7
3. caster level 13 at level 13.

so this opens up mystic theurge because practiced spellcaster lets me get 4 levels of other classes without loss of spellcaster level.

so here is what ive been thinking about.
1st level has to be wizard so i can use a 1st level feat for practiced spellcaster.
druid3/wizard3 for double animal companions. trouble is i cant get natural bond on both because 3rd feat and 6th feat have to be obtain familiar and improved familiar.
cleric3/wizard3 as an illumian. only single animal companion but i can get naenhoon persistent spell and naenhoon fell animate. persistent mass lesser vigor heals undead all day so thats fantastic.

which do you think is better and do you have a better build?

if you disagree that cooperative crafting with slas eliminate material and xp cost of spells please say so in the other thread. and if you are proved right then i got excited for nothing.

[Falontani]

Why not go duskblade? 3 and 6 can still be obtain familiar and improved familiar, be a human and grab scribe scroll and combat casting, level 6 enter abjurant champion.

Or wizard 2/fighter 4/abjurant champion

If your still after wish then
Wizard 1/Warblade 1/Master Specialist 8/Abjurant Champion 5/Jade Phoenix Mage 5

If it's the companion you want, then remember that savage bard gets an animal companion as well, while still being arcane.

[newguydude1]

ok i think this is what im gonna go

illumian sorcerer/cleric
1: practiced spellcaster, natural bond, and fell animate
3: obtain familiar
6: improved familiar

and my main strategy is killing my animal companion with fell animate to turn it into a zombie and create a zombie army. that way i am independent of needing to find corpses or begging dm for living creatures to kill if he makes the campaign an undead campaign.

in my other thread someone told me a way to cheese the 100gp familiar cost by creating my own "magical materials so i will sorcerer6/cleric1 to have distilled joy.

i can make simulacrum scrolls at 13th level by having my mirror mephit make a simulacrum of a wizard, or if my dm rules the minimum cl is the cl required to cast the spell or sla of the creature providing the spell, in which case its level 8, when i will be grabbing minor creation to create the scroll components!

ok! i think i might like this character more than my psion! we will have to see. i really like warforged. but i like permanent army at level 1 instead of level 9. so excited!

[el minster]

I'm not sure you can use spells to create magical materials

[newguydude1]

ok so lets finish this up.

1 sorcerer: fell animate, natural bond, practiced spellcaster.
call a horse, kill it for hair so i can use it as material component for mount
call a riding dog.
summon light horses and push them to defend me
ride one and run away with power word pain.

2 dread necromancer:
rebuke fuels naenhoon fell animate power word pain
2 riding dog zombies
at will negative energy touch keeps my dog zombies at full hp 24/7. i last forever, no running out of juice and needing to rest. only rest when my zombies die.
cant heal animal companion so he will solely be a corpse fodder generator. ill still have him out but he will stay back and if he gets wounded i just turn him into a zombie.

3-6 sorcerer: better zombies from more powerful animal companions
command undead possibly to get control of lots of zombies instead of just 2. dispel magic might royally kill me. but i think uncontrolled undead will attack nearest living thing instead of targeting me specifically.

7-??? sorcerer: mirror mephit simualcrum. use distilled joy to get the ritual components.

??? use a combination of extended major creation and exceptional artisan to craft scrolls of simulacrum without paying for materials. i think i can get it up to 56 hours so thats 3 days of crafting so scroll costs of 4000 which is cl 22 so i think im good here.
rules are market price = base cost + xp cost. crafting time is determined by base cost only, xp cost does not factor in at all.
cooperative mirror mephit crafting eliminates powdered ruby, creature toenail, ice sculpture, and xp cost of simulacrum.
distilled joy x however many times i need to cast it to make scroll crafting free. not liquid pain because im not evil. good people slaughter animals for food and hide and stuff so i can still be a good necromancer. fell animate does not have the evil tag.

and i think thats it. 22hd simulacra should carry me until the end

so i guess i just need a spell list now. since i dont think simulacrum needs combat support i think im a grab fun spells like steal life so i can be immortal and drain the life of simulacra so i dont actually kill anyone so im not actually evil. lets see how many fun noncombat spells there are in the game.

[Endarire]

What about lesser planar binding to get Mirror Mephit? That way you can get Sim Genies and Sim Solars and Sim Mephits!

[Gruftzwerg]

so i guess i just need a spell list now. since i dont think simulacrum needs combat support i think im a grab fun spells like steal life so i can be immortal and drain the life of simulacra so i dont actually kill anyone so im not actually evil. lets see how many fun noncombat spells there are in the game.

Consider to have a look at the sorcerer only spells. Here (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=4941.0)is a good list in another dnd forum to start.

Arcane Fusion (and its greater variant) are a must have imho. Especially if you use it with Contingency, it gets really powerful in regards to action economy. Be it to for buffing up at start of combat or as defensive panic button.
It's even worth considering to get the Craft Contingent Spell feat to abuse Greater Arcane Fusion if you like the idea to become invincible by several layers of Contingencies ^^.

edit: corrected the feat name..

[newguydude1]

Consider to have a look at the sorcerer only spells. Here (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=4941.0)is a good list in another dnd forum to start.

Arcane Fusion (and its greater variant) are a must have imho. Especially if you use it with Contingency, it gets really powerful in regards to action economy. Be it to for buffing up at start of combat or as defensive panic button.
It's even worth considering to get the Craft Contingent Spell feat to abuse Greater Arcane Fusion if you like the idea to become invincible by several layers of Contingencies ^^.

edit: corrected the feat name..

i forgot about wings of cover. that one is mandatory. thanks.