Barbarian Build Critique

[ThelaGinjeet]

Hi Guys! Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm currently playing a level 12 Barbarian in a 3.5 campaign that's been ongoing for a few months now and I'm struggling to decide where to ultimately take this character and was hoping for some insight from the build wizards on this forum.

The DM started us off at lvl 6 (I think), and has been leveling us up at a fairly rapid rate. I wasn't intending to attempt to optimize this character much, and hadn't considered taking prestige classes until recently, so I'm fairly behind the 8-ball on plotting a course with prerequisites for dipping into anything other than Barbarian.

Currently, my stats are as follows...

lvl 12
HP: 151 (yeah, I rolled well)
AC: 24 (see armor/items below)
Str: 20 (18 + items)
Dex: 11
Con: 16
Int: 8
Wis: 12
Cha: 10

Feats: Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Mage Slayer, Yeti Lodge Berserker (a house rule custom feat that is a mod to the Lodge Feats from Unapproachable East that grants me pounce while raging).

Weapons: +1 Mage Bane Great Axe, +3 Flaming Great Axe (it's sentient and once belonged to a Paladin so it's Lawful Annoying), and a quiver full of Javelins for range

Armor/Items: +1 Mithril Chain Mail, Cloak of Resistance, Boots of Battle Charger, +2 Ring of Protection, Animated Shield +2, Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Bracers of Natural Armor

So obviously I've been leaning into a charger build pretty hard, but from here on out I'd like to be a little less one-note. I regret not being a little more deliberate with this build from the get go, as I feel there's some wasted Barb levels here, but I'm not super familiar with 3.5 and I failed to do the research on builds until just recently.

So, with that said, do any of you have any suggestions on how to make my Barbarian a little more versatile with the levels we have left? Weapon/Item/Armor suggestions would also be appreciate if there's any glaring omissions that should be there, though it feels like a lot of that is covered.

The rest of the party consists of a lvl 12 Cleric of Lathander (we're in Damara/Forgotten Realms), A lvl 12 Sorceress, and a Rogue/Fighter/?, in case that's useful info.

Thanks in advance!

[Maat Mons]

The usual way to gain pounce is from the Spirit Totem ACF in Complete Champion, but if your DM's giving it to you with a custom feat, that's fine too.

The Runescarred Berserker PRC from Unapprochable East is, I think, the most vesatile Barbarian that doesn't kind of start being something entirely different than a Barbarian. But you're not set up to be able to jump into that.

Usually, I'd take 1 or 2 levels of Barbarian, some Fighter levels, the Extra Rage feat, and head into a prestige class. If you're going to go to high levels in the Barbarian class, I've always been curious to see how the 19th-level ability of the Streefighter ACF from the Cityscape web enhancment works in play. You'd need to use retraining rules to get that though.

For items, you should proably get something that lets you fly, so you can always get to enemies.

You could try taking some levels in a Tome of Battle class. Those multiclass weird, so your 12 Barbarian levels would sort of count as 6 levels in any class you took from that book.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Ask your DM whether you can rebuild. Your post already lays out the reasons why that should be allowed: you'd like to play a more versatile (version of the same) character, and though PrCs would be the way to do that, you are a newer player and hadn't considered taking PrCs before, and now you're behind on meeting qualifications. If it matters, Player's Handbook II has a paragraph on page 197 (under "Class Level Rebuilding") that more or less vindicates that line of reasoning.


Okay, with that out of the way, what should you rebuild to?

Well, I'd say: Champion of Gwynharwyf. Great all-round barbarian PrC, especially if you have a bit of Charisma and like Intimidate. It is also paladin-like, though Chaotic Good, so it actually works really well with your paladin's axe.


Yeti totem barbarian 1/ranger 1/warblade 2/fighter 2/champion of gwynharwyf 6 (no multiclass XP penalties, you'll note!)
Feats: Righteous Wrath1, Knight of Starshuman, Improved Unarmed StrikeB1, Two-Weapon FightingB1, Intimidating Rageflaw, Power Attackflaw, TrackR1, Nemesis3, Improved Bull RushF1, Shock TrooperF2, Leap Attack6, Imperious Command9, Martial Study (Fountain of Blood)12 (flaws can be Glory-Hound and Vulnerable, that's pretty cool)
Also, you want the Never Outnumbered skill trick and some fearsome armour (DotU version).

N.B. yeti totem barbarian= whirling frenzy/spirit lion totem/city brawler barbarian by another name. Ranger has the Arcane Hunter ACF. Fighter can be a hit-and-run fighter.

Basically, this happens in combat:
You rage, which makes enemies within 30' shaken (Will negates, but the DC is equal to your Intimidate check. Fearsome Fury, Champion of Gwynharwyf) and gives you a free demoralize attempt (Intimidating Rage).
Your demoralize attempt makes your target cower for one round (Imperious Command), meaning they can't take actions, and frightened after that.
You then charge the cowering target (doesn't have to be, but -2 AC and no Dex bonus), making a full attack, with a bonus attack (Whirling Frenzy) and an off-hand unarmed strike (City Brawler). Note that unarmed strikes are light weapons, but they do recieve Power Attack bonuses.
Your charge attack drops your target to -1, which allows you to activate your Fountain of Blood maneuver.
Your Fountain of Blood renders all enemies within 30' shaken again (Will negates, but the DC is Strength-based).
Already-shaken enemies are now frightened. As per the DMG: "A frightened creature flees from the source of its fear as best it can".
You have now won the fight--assuming you're making all the rolls, enemies fail all the saves, and they're vulnerable to fear in the first place. This is not a perfect combo, but it can pan out very well indeed.

Instead of charging, you can Demoralize as a move action (fearsome armour), once or twice, which optionally affects all enemies within 10' (Never Outnumbered, note that it's 1/encounter) and again makes all targets cower (Imperious Command). And then you kill them.

The ranger level gives you Favoured Enemy (arcanists). With Nemesis, you can now pinpoint anyone capable of casting arcane spells within 60', even through walls (and you get an extra +1d6 damage against evil spellcasters). With Champion of Gwynharwyf, you have Divine Grace, as the paladin ability, making you resistant to spells. So you're still very much a capable mage hunter, though without the Mage Slayer feat.

As a 6th-level Champion of Gwynharwyf, you have third-level spells from a narrow list, including discern lies and a handful of curative abilities. Low caster level, but if the kidnapped princess needs a curse broken, you can do it.

You technically meet the requirements for sainthood (character behaviour permitting), so... ask your DM about that one? (If you're wondering: it's probably worth becoming a saint, even though it'll cost you two levels.)

A downside is that this build only has two rages per day, but you get a third at CoG 7 (because your total effective rage level will be 8). You'll even get Greater Rage at CoG 10!

[ThelaGinjeet]

Much appreciated, folks. I actually did try and run the idea of redoing my character from square one in order to spec him a little more versatile, but that got shut down, as the rest of the team is playing it pretty straight and the DM is concerned about party balance.

[ExLibrisMortis]

There's a cleric and a sorcerer. If anything, playing a barbarian makes you underpowered. But if your group doesn't like it...

I guess you can start taking levels in warblade. Tome of Battle classes are very dip-friendly; your non-warblade levels will count for half when determining level prerequisites for higher-level maneuvers, so you'd be starting with 4th-level maneuvers.

[el minster]

A level of Bear warrior combined with fist of the forest or by itself is fun also you get into Warshaper which you can take for 1-4 levels and end up with a whole bunch of natural attacks and reach and maybe minor healing.

[emeraldstreak]

Get Mad Foar Rager. Multiclass Warblade. Get Iron Heart Surge.

[ThelaGinjeet]

Again, thanks for the recommendations.

As awesome as Warblade sounds, I feel like my Intelligence score is too low to benefit from most of the class abilities. Do you feel like the benefits I’d gain with maneuvers and stances out weigh the poor class abilities due to low intelligence?

An issue I see with Fist of The Forest and Bear Warrior is the unarmed combat aspect. I’ve sunk so much into charging and so much gold into those great axes that it feels like a shame to begin focusing on grappling and melee/natural attacks. Furthermore, I was hoping to either purchase a new weapon and upgrade it to Valorous for the charging benefits, or upgrade the axes I already have.

Mad Foam Rager seems like a fun panic button feat, but I don’t know that I’d take it before several other options.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Again, thanks for the recommendations.

As awesome as Warblade sounds, I feel like my Intelligence score is too low to benefit from most of the class abilities. Do you feel like the benefits I’d gain with maneuvers and stances out weigh the poor class abilities due to low intelligence?
Like most spellcasters, the class features are a distraction. The real power is in maneuvers. For example, there's White Raven Tactics, which lets an ally take another turn (it sets their Initiative to your Initiative - 1). No Intelligence required.

[el minster]

You don't actually need intelligence to get the powerful stuff in the class. It's just a (minor) bonus.

[ThelaGinjeet]

Nice! I’ll read ToB and get a better idea. Thanks again!

[el minster]

Nice! I’ll read ToB and get a better idea. Thanks again!

You haven't read Tome of Battle? It's The Great Beatstick/Spellcaster Equalizer!

[ThelaGinjeet]

Yeah, I really goofed with dumping 12 levels into Barb before doing any real research beyond Charger builds. Live and learn! If for some reason I manage to get killed in the next few sessions I’ll be much better prepared to optimize and plot out a build from the get go.

[el minster]

Sometimes you just want to die ;)