Idea: Multiclass-enabling/focused Archetypes

[Cikomyr2]

I was thinking the other day of the possibility of a Monk /Barbarian multiclass, it's potential both in term of rules and role-play, and I kept hitting a wall at the fact that a lot of the class features are dependant on different stats, and I think the rage bonus damage is only on str-based attacks.

And then, I figured: why not have a special Monk tradition focused on raging, transforming Flurry of Blows into Fury of Blows? Why not have a monastic tradition that specifically spell out certain rule exceptions if the monk MC into a Barbarian, allowing some synergy?

Obviously, this would most likely impact classes that are less likely to MC in the first place. No way in hell would I make multiclassing in or out of Warlock easier.

[Desteplo]

Sounds like prestige classes from 3.5. There was one that improved unarmed damage 2 times in 3 lvls, added a secondary dex based rage and combined the concepts of monk and barbarian. It was a lvl9 prestige class so it was a little late

In terms of what that means for 5e, If rage+dmg is all you’re missing, you get resistance to damage and whatever subclass feature. Then advantage on Dex saves initiative, movement speed etc.

otherwise if you go strength monk be a tortle and you should have no problems.

In terms of monk the only thing reliant on wis is stunning strike (not counting unarmored defense because both get it) so you could either focus your stats str/con or Dex/wis.

Str/con nets you better dmg and melee potential

Dex/wis nets you better stunning strikes and stronger peripheral barbarian abilities

Tortle can afford str/wis keeping at 17AC and you get best stat spread

[Amnestic]

Sure, why not? We've got Divine Soul Sorcerers, Arcane Tricksters, Eldritch Knights, etc.

[Catullus64]

I like the idea, though this would be ground to be trodden carefully, lest we end up with another Hexblade. I think that it would be best to make such subclasses only for combinations that currently lack synergy; nobody needs more incentive to go Sorcerer/Paladin.

Some concepts off the top of my head:

An Arcane Tradition that allows you to add non-Wizard rituals (and only rituals) that you can cast from other classes into your spellbook.

A Rogue subclass that extends Sneak Attack to the natural weapons of any form you assume via Wildshape.

Aforementioned Barbarian-Monk multiclass, extending Rage Damage to any Monk Weapon or Unarmed Strike, and allowing the choice of any two stats (DEX, CON, WIS) while calculating AC with no armor or shield.

I think that these subclasses should, in general, lack features other than the ones which enable synergy; since you're getting a very specific combination served up to you in exception to the general rules, you should have to trade in a lot of the other power. I would, however, make up for this with ribbons. Ribbons galore.

[Man_Over_Game]

I was thinking the other day of the possibility of a Monk /Barbarian multiclass, it's potential both in term of rules and role-play, and I kept hitting a wall at the fact that a lot of the class features are dependant on different stats, and I think the rage bonus damage is only on str-based attacks.

And then, I figured: why not have a special Monk tradition focused on raging, transforming Flurry of Blows into Fury of Blows? Why not have a monastic tradition that specifically spell out certain rule exceptions if the monk MC into a Barbarian, allowing some synergy?

Obviously, this would most likely impact classes that are less likely to MC in the first place. No way in hell would I make multiclassing in or out of Warlock easier.


Sounds like prestige classes from 3.5.

OOH I DID THIS. I DID THIS GAIS.

I came up with a giant list of primary stat changes with specific builds in mind to allow new multiclassing combos, BUT it comes with very specific leveling restrictions.

For example, you can use your Strength mod instead of Dexterity for all of your Monk features, BUT at least half of your levels must go into Monk, and your subclass must be Open Hand.

I called them Prestige Options.

Each Option also applies for multiclassing restrictions (so you can use 13 STR instead of DEX to multiclass into this kind of Monk), but you are forced to use the default rules if you don't abide by the Option rules and if any change would force you to no longer obey the default rules. So, for example, you can use your 13 STR to multiclass out of Monk with a low DEX, but if you decided to want to put too many levels into something else, so that less than half of your levels are in Monk, you could only do so if you had 13 DEX and would use DEX for all of your Monk features until you were obeying the rules again.

Each Option also comes with a breakdown on justification on why it's not stronger than using the core rules, as evidence to provide as to why they could be included into a game. For example, Intelligence Paladin isn't any stronger than Charisma Paladin, since you can get everything you'd want out of a hybrid build from Sorcerer in the first place.

It was made with the mentality that "overpowered" means "the strongest option possible", and anything that's less than that is balanced. So I made a bunch of exceptions and explained why you were better off picking the core rules if you wanted straight power gain, to preemptively address any concerns about "power creep". I wanted players to have more options, not more power.

Here's a couple from what's mentioned to give you an idea:
Monk
Way of the Closed Fist:
You can take the Monk, using your Strength modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier for your Monk features.
Requirement: The only Monk subclass available to you is the Way of the Open Palm.
[Example: A troubled youth learns to harness his strength for good, channeling his forceful nature through his fists.
A bit odd, I know, but the Open Hand relies really heavily on Wisdom compared to the other melee-oriented Monks. Your damage output is a bit higher by mixing in with Barbarian, but your Ki point reserve takes a hit. With no Wisdom, you deal the same damage as a Barbarian with a Monk dip, and having Wisdom means that your Strength/Constitution is going to be lower (meaning either less damage/hits, or less HP that stacks with Rage).

While the Barbarian/Monk combination does seem strong compared to a normal Barbarian, consider the fact that Rage works best with a high HP pool, and the Monk gains 2 less HP per level than the Barbarian. Leveling in this way means that you're able to absorb about 3-4 less damage per level than the classic Barbarian, making this an even less effective choice.

Lastly, you also weaken the Monk's Evasion ability by changing it to Strength, a much less common and less threatening Saving Throw.

Way of the Disciplined Eye
You can take the Monk, using your Intelligence modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier for your Monk features.
Requirement: The only Monk subclasses available to you are the Ways of the Sun Soul, Four Elements, and the Long Death. Additionally, you cannot have more Wizard levels than you have Monk levels.
[Example: A reclusive student learns the forbidden arts of his temple after much time spent in the library, and seeks to hone his newfound knowledge with practice.]
Make sure to not allow a Wizard to cheat his way into high AC without some kind of cost. In this case, we're talking about Unarmored Defense, which can completely go out of hand when considering something like Bladesinger's AC bonus.

It can be a concern of a Monk dipping a few levels into Wizard, which provides things like Shield and Absorb Elements, but this does mean a smaller HP pool. The War Mage is a solid choice, but the Reaction benefit really competes with the Monk's existing Reaction uses (Deflect Missiles, Slowfall) which are already very powerful choices. You are not gaining the ability to Deflect Missiles AND gain +2 AC AND gain Shield, only the option to do one of the three, and that's perfectly reasonable.

A Monk built this way cannot go fully Intelligence and abuse Bladesinger or Wizard levels, due to the fact that effects like Shillelagh are only possible using Charisma (via Tome Warlock) or Wisdom. Intelligence has no method to attack with a weapon, and so a Dexterity-less Monk will have VERY weak attacks compared to a balanced one. A fair trade, considering the spellcasting and AC benefits.

Paladin
Oath of Superiority
You can take the Paladin, using your Intelligence modifier in place of your Charisma modifier for your Paladin features.
Requirement: The only Paladin subclass available to you is the Oath of Conquest. Additionally, you cannot have more Wizard levels than your Paladin levels.
[Example: A dark knight uses his superior intellect to dominate those with weaker minds than him.]
Make sure that Wizards can't get cheatyface AC from a low level dip. A main-Paladin can dip into Wizard for Shield and Absorb Elements, but this is already doable with Sorcerer, and Sorcerer can cheat out Twin Spell Booming Blade, so it's still better than the Paladin/Wizard Hybrid.

Admittedly, the restriction for Conquest is a narrative choice, but no other Paladin Oath really seemed to justify a change to Intelligence. I added this one mostly due to popular request.

Oath of the Old Ways
You can take the Paladin, using your Wisdom modifier in place of your Charisma modifier for your Paladin features.
Requirement: The only Paladin subclass available to you is the Oath of the Ancients. Additionally, you cannot have more Druid levels than your Paladin levels.
[Example: An orphan, raised by denizens of the forests, grows to be its solitary protector.]
Going through a checklist reveals that nothing is broken by this option:
Clerics already have access to armor and healing of a Paladin. Paladin provides some burst damage potential, but at the cost of a lot of redundant abilities (like inefficient healing via Lay on Hands vs. Healing Word, or redundant armor/weapon proficiencies).
Druids gain some armor, and have decent spellcasting, but their emphasis on Concentration doesn't do well with a primarily melee multiclass. Moon Druids get a minor buff, but that armor won't be usable in this combination. Similar to Clerics, but while the Druid has more close-ranged damage spells than Clerics, they rely on Concentration too much for a Paladin/Druid to rely on them too much.
Rangers get heavy armor, I guess? Not much else to gain here.
Monks get Divine Smite, but not much else.

In all of these circumstances, a multiclass will generally cause the Paladin to lose Paladin levels and delay those powerful Paladin features, so it all seems fine to me. Especially when the Paladin+Sorcerer Twinned Booming Blade or Paladin+Warlock Smite Spam options are much more explosive than anything a Wisdom Paladin could get.

Those are all straightforward, with them focusing on specific subclasses, but there're some weird ones available too, like a str/con-based Rogue, dexterity-based Barbarian, and constitution-based Sorcerer.

There's a bunch more in the signature, about 2 per class. If you like them, please tell me what you think is broken or missing, as I really like working on them. And I extend a challenge to anyone to try and create an overpowered build out of them, if you can.