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ShayRob007
2020-06-21, 12:30 PM
I have curated a list of spells for each level that I believe are the best ones to have on any Sorcerer spell list. What are your favorite spells to use as a Sorcerer? Do you prefer all attack spells or a nice balance of attack and utility? What is the spell that gets you out of the most trouble?

MarkVIIIMarc
2020-06-21, 10:12 PM
It should vary a bit based on your party composition but get some variation even among your attack spells.

I say get a good melee and ranged attack, then get a good AOE, then target a few different saving throws.

Varying damage types seems secondary but someday you'll not be able to cast Shatter into a silenced area or Fireball against something immune to fire damage. Otherwise they seem similar to me and Draconic ancestry can negate that, right?

Besides that what else is out there. try for some defense spell. I don' there are any heals on your list...Got any Debuffs/Buffs? A teleportation spell? Suggestion / Mass Suggestion sound like fun?

This is a great guide btw: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?457552-How-to-Rend-Fiends-and-Immolate-People-A-Guide-to-Sorcery

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-06-21, 11:33 PM
What kind of Sorcerer? If you go Draconic it will really depend on which dragon variety you chose. If you go Divine Soul you get a lot more spells to choose from. Maybe you're a Mountain Dwarf with high strength, medium armor, with a battleaxe or warhammer in one hand and your spellcasting focus in the other. It depends entirely on the rest of your build, not just what base class you've selected.

BloodSnake'sCha
2020-06-22, 01:25 AM
Sorcerers are specialists.
What is your speciality?

ShayRob007
2020-06-22, 12:04 PM
What kind of Sorcerer? If you go Draconic it will really depend on which dragon variety you chose. If you go Divine Soul you get a lot more spells to choose from. Maybe you're a Mountain Dwarf with high strength, medium armor, with a battleaxe or warhammer in one hand and your spellcasting focus in the other. It depends entirely on the rest of your build, not just what base class you've selected.

I absolutely agree that the variations in sub-class and other choices we make in our builds determine the best spells for us as individuals. In my opinion, the Sorcerer spell list is quite limited, and its easier to choose the two most useful spells from each level than it would be if we were examining the Wizard spell list for instance.

My Sorcerer is a level 17 Dragonborn Draconic Bloodline, with a dwarven belt of strength, Hazirawn the Sword, and a Black Dragon Mask. Essentially she is a beast who specializes in ranged spell attacks and war casting when she isn't winning over the diplomats in the land.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-06-22, 01:50 PM
I absolutely agree that the variations in sub-class and other choices we make in our builds determine the best spells for us as individuals. In my opinion, the Sorcerer spell list is quite limited, and its easier to choose the two most useful spells from each level than it would be if we were examining the Wizard spell list for instance.

My Sorcerer is a level 17 Dragonborn Draconic Bloodline, with a dwarven belt of strength, Hazirawn the Sword, and a Black Dragon Mask. Essentially she is a beast who specializes in ranged spell attacks and war casting when she isn't winning over the diplomats in the land.

What dragon variety of Dragonborn, and what dragon variety of Draconic Bloodline? Elemental Affinity sort of matters for damage spell selection.

Hazirawn is a greatsword, are you proficient with it?


Take Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade and/or Lightning Lure if you're proficient with the sword, preferring whichever damage type synergizes with your draconic bloodline, if any. Those can be used with Twin and/or Quicken to get multiple attacks. Always take Minor Illusion and Prestidigitation and Mage Hand. Pick your favorite ranged attack cantrip.

Always get Absorb Elements and Shield, being able to mitigate damage received using a 1st level slot is too good to pass up. Magic Missile is reliable, but may not be worth using. Chromatic Orb is one of the better attack spells due to the damage selection. Disguise Self doesn't require concentration and can be combined with Friends to make someone hate someone else.

Always get Mirror Image and Suggestion, the latter scales with creativity. Blindness/Deafness is one of my favorite save-or-lose spells across multiple editions, no concentration. Web is reliable, Misty Step is good for utility.

Always get Counterspell, it's especially good with Distant Spell because they can't Counterspell you back, but remember you won't know what they're casting because it also takes a reaction to identify their spell (unless you have someone with Arcana proficiency doing that and calling it out for you). Hypnotic Pattern is surprisingly powerful. I'm a fan of Sleet Storm, but YMMV depending on the campaign. Fireball is the standard AoE damage spell, but if your bloodline isn't fire you may want to look for something that matches.

Honestly, the handbook that was linked in the first reply to this thread has the 'best' spells of each level conveniently color coded:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?457552-How-to-Rend-Fiends-and-Immolate-People-A-Guide-to-Sorcery#5

TotallyNotEvil
2020-06-22, 02:29 PM
Well, what's your list like? You can't open up by saying that and then not posting it :smalltongue:

lall
2020-06-22, 06:32 PM
For my sorcerer:
Chill Touch
Cure Wounds
Lesser Restoration
Tongues
Stone Shape
N/A
Heal
Teleport
N/A
Wish

ShayRob007
2020-06-23, 11:05 AM
Well, what's your list like? You can't open up by saying that and then not posting it :smalltongue:

I can't post the link to my article yet because I'm a noob on these boards. But my list selections are different than the spell list I am rocking in my current campaign. We are on the last leg of our journey as players so we are doing a pretty intense dungeon dive. These are the spells I'm using currently:


Acid Splash (black dragonborn)
Eldritch blast (spell sniper-warlock)
Fire Bolt
mage Hand
Message
Mold Earth
Prestidigitation
Chromatic orb
Magic Missile
Shield
Witch Bolt
Dragon's Breath (this is just fun)
Counterspell
Fireball
Haste
Protection from energy
Dimension Door
Telekinesis
Chain Lightning
Teleport
Dominate Monster
Wish

clash
2020-06-23, 11:36 AM
For me if I want versatility I will pick a wizard. Sorcerer is the specialist. So most of my spells will be very similar in feel. For example, my divine soul close quarters caster list:
1: Burning Hands
2: Dragons Breath
3: Spirit Guardians
4: Greater Invisbility
5: Cone of Cold
etc

Crucius
2020-06-23, 01:00 PM
I say get a good melee and ranged attack, then get a good AOE, then target a few different saving throws.

I agree with this. Once you have your basics covered and they are futureproof, you are essentially free to choose whatever you want for a spell really.

For melee attack I find booming blade really solid, if you have the means of escape afterwards.
For ranged attacks there is none better than scorching ray. Literally. For the longest time there are no new (solid) ranged attack spells for the sorcerer, and at least scorching ray is futureproof because you can upcast it. (at 7th level Crown of Stars is phenomenal. I think. Never made it that far.)
For AoE I use Erupting Earth or Melf's Minute Meteors. Once you have a good futureproof AoE you don't really need another in my opinion (unless they have potent status condition riders).
For crowd control I like Maximillian's Earthen Grasp. Not really futureproof, but it is strong because it's not immediately save or suck. Wall of Fire is also very nice.

Hael
2020-06-23, 02:22 PM
Which spells to take is highly build dependant, and honestly quite subtle. Sorcerer was one of the first classes I played in 5e and I made a lot of mistakes in the spell choice. I ended up with a number of spells that I never used that were basically replaced by higher lvl spells, and thats a faux pas with a class with so few choices.

Be careful with wanting to be a dedicated blaster, it’s quite hard to make work. Eg standard fire elemental affinity, scorching ray and fireball, that sort of thing. It works great for a lvl or two, but doesn’t scale, and then there’s a very long time with horrible gaps where many other classes are decidedly better at blasting than you are, for much less resources.

Instead, look for spell choices that solve a limited set of problems that your team needs. Definitely get a CC spell (hypnotic pattern etc), definitely pick up counterspell, shield and elements. Think about what you want to be concentrating on, and what you want your ba economy to be like.

Chaos Jackal
2020-06-23, 02:39 PM
I hope there's someone else taking care of flight, invisibility and CC'ing. Going too heavy on blasts is one of the easiest ways to hit redundancy. Two spells of the same level, or a level above/below, that both deal damage, are usually not needed (for example, both fire bolt and eldritch blast, both chromatic orb and magic missile, dragon breath and fireball, and so on). Using a single target blast plus a cantrip, as well as one or two aoe spells, utilizing seldom-resisted damage types like force or thunder and/or damage types that synergize with a build (e.g. draconic sorcerer) alongside the Elemental Adept feat is usually the way to go for blasting. In general, I'd say that no list ever needs to have more than a quarter made up of blasts. A third, tops.

As others said, a "best list" can depend a lot on build, purpose and team members. So I'm not really gonna comment on most of these. I'm personally more of a utility type; I want a mass debuff spell, a way to become invisible, a way to fly (draconic sorcerer fixes that part at least, on a personal level), teleportation and a wall or some other reliable battlefield control. But to each their own.

But I am gonna comment on one. Witch Bolt is an awful spell, possibly one of the worst in the game. Seeing it pop into a "best of" list is... surprising, to say the least. What's its point?

Necroanswer
2020-06-23, 08:08 PM
Having not played a 5e sorcerer (I don't really like what they did with them in terms of flavor, ie. wildmage: random stuff happens all the time, draconic sorc: a dragon bonked your great-grandma and somehow she lived and produced cross species offspring to make a magic dragon person generations later) these are the spells I think would work best for each level:

0: Minor Illusion
1: Sleep/Shield *
2: Phantasmal Force **
3: Fly ***
4: Polymorph ****
5: Animate Objects *****
6: Disintegrate ******
7: ? no experience playing at this level
8: ? ditto
9: Wish *******

* Sleep is probably the best for lvls 1-2, consider trading it out as you level up
** PF lets you screw with someone's mind, use Int as a save (seems to be the most widespread bad save to me), can do damage and only sorcs can affect 2 targets with it (twinable)
3* Make 2 martials fly with twin spell
4* Useful on allies and enemies and is twinable
5* Deadly when cast on tiny objects
6* Useful for attack or getting rid of walls,support beams,etc.
7* Cast any spell 8th level or lower, your small spell list doesn't limit you anymore, just your spell slots

Throne12
2020-06-23, 08:23 PM
Ever scents it can out I always have Dragons dreath on any caster I play that can get it. It's a great spell first you choose and change the damage type. Second you can put it on other creatures like my favorite combo a owl familiar. Third you can quicken and twin a cantrip then dragons breath.

ShayRob007
2020-06-24, 11:14 AM
But I am gonna comment on one. Witch Bolt is an awful spell, possibly one of the worst in the game. Seeing it pop into a "best of" list is... surprising, to say the least. What's its point?

For me, a sustained lightning bolt is a lot of fun and the damage scales so it can be pretty intense. We are essentially in battle-heavy, close quarter dungeons and whipping things on the head with this spell has been great fun for me. Being able to deal damage automatically is a huge deal for a low level spell caster, so I really am not sure why this spell gets your designation of the "worst in the game."

Darc_Vader
2020-06-24, 11:33 AM
For me, a sustained lightning bolt is a lot of fun and the damage scales so it can be pretty intense. We are essentially in battle-heavy, close quarter dungeons and whipping things on the head with this spell has been great fun for me. Being able to deal damage automatically is a huge deal for a low level spell caster, so I really am not sure why this spell gets your designation of the "worst in the game."

It’s pretty bad for multiple reasons: almost anyone can just walk away from you and it ends; if you miss the attack roll then you get nothing out of it; only the initial damage scales when upcast, the automatic damage per turn is always a D12 so past level 5 it’s comparable to a cantrip(with better accuracy at least); it requires you to spend your action every turn or it ends; it’s a concentration spell that requires you stay within typical move speed of the target, but doesn’t provide any protection from them just walking up and attacking you.

That said, if you have an ally who is willing/able to grapple an enemy, or can otherwise prevent them from approaching or retreating, it can be a decent spell at low levels where slots are limited, and you can pair it with a quickened Booming Blade to force an enemy to choose between staying in range and taking the automatic D12 or moving and taking the nD8.

Chronic
2020-06-27, 10:56 PM
Which spells to take is highly build dependant, and honestly quite subtle. Sorcerer was one of the first classes I played in 5e and I made a lot of mistakes in the spell choice. I ended up with a number of spells that I never used that were basically replaced by higher lvl spells, and thats a faux pas with a class with so few choices.

Be careful with wanting to be a dedicated blaster, it’s quite hard to make work. Eg standard fire elemental affinity, scorching ray and fireball, that sort of thing. It works great for a lvl or two, but doesn’t scale, and then there’s a very long time with horrible gaps where many other classes are decidedly better at blasting than you are, for much less resources.

Instead, look for spell choices that solve a limited set of problems that your team needs. Definitely get a CC spell (hypnotic pattern etc), definitely pick up counterspell, shield and elements. Think about what you want to be concentrating on, and what you want your ba economy to be like.

Sorcerers are the best blasters in the game, between upcasting spells, maximized metamagic and draconic bloodline. I'm not saying that's all they can do but they sure can do it better than everyone else.

The list of spell is widely dependent of the metamagic you choose since there is no point in playing a sorcerer if not for them.

Hael
2020-06-28, 01:10 AM
I mean that depends what you mean by blasting. If you mean sustained spell DPR, something like a fiend or devil lock will likely out damage the sorcerer over the day b/c of the consistent non resource using single target EB spam.

If you mean AOE damage, then likely yes a draconic fire build sorcerer is *arguably* the best non-multiclass blaster. But I mean an evoker or a light cleric is going to be close and indeed will do better at certain lvls (light clerics are super strong early game blasters). It's also somewhat of an up and down build, b/c as I was saying there are many dead lvls where you wait for upgrades. You hit fireball for instance, and then its a very long wait for significant spell upgrades other than upcasting with higher spell slots and burning your metamagics (like this but at different lvls for other types of blaster builds). What invariably ends up happening at higher lvls is you start casting non blasting spells on your blaster b/c they're manifestly more impactful.

Nowadays I'm of the mind where I think blasting builds in general for spell casters are somewhat sub optimal. In any event, I was disappointed when I played one.

Chronic
2020-06-28, 06:51 AM
Maximized is really cost efficient, even without draconic bloodline, it makes the sorcerer pull ahead in terms of dpr. In order for a warlock to be ahead, he would need an amount of encounter comparable to what is advised in the rules, with with at least 3 to 4 long rest. I guess some people do that, but according to a few polls made on this forum and others, the grand majority (<90%) had less than four encounters by adventuring day, and many had less actually.