De-Bamfing the Spore Stalker

[Palanan]

In my last session I was planning to drop a spore stalker (https://aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Spore%20Stalker) on the party, since they’ve already encountered the mi-go on several occasions.

But then I noticed the Reactive Escape ability, which would be too much for the party to handle at their current level. So my question is, how would removing this one ability affect the creature’s CR?

[DrMartin]

Why is it too much? It uses the creature's immediate action, so it can be used at most 1/round , and only when you are not using the paralytic spores ability (which also uses your immediate for that round).

[Palanan]

For the purposes of this thread, let's just say I want to remove the ability. What effect would that have on the creature's CR?

[DrMartin]

I would argue that, since the CR system is something that relies on very big assumption about party composition and abilities, and you are doing here a fine-tuned adjustment based on the specifics of your party composition and their abilities, it does matter why you think that the ability is too much.

It might be that the spore-stalked is a bigger CR than "the norm" for you party, and removing the ability would bring it back to its intended challenge rating.

But in general term: according to Pathfinder Bestiary Appendix 1 (Monster building), the spore stalker has the average HP of a creature of its CR (85), average ac (20), average attack & damage ("high attack" of 14 paired with "low damage" of 19), offensive abilities with a higher-than-normal-for-its-CR DC (19 instead of 17), and average saves. So one could argue that the extra offensive and defensive abilities already place the creature on the high bar of CR 7, and dropping the reactive escape would still leave it in the same general threat range.

[legomaster00156]

Instead of removing the ability, maybe randomize it. They can teleport reactively, but cannot choose where they go. They might end up teleporting 30' away from the party, or right into the party's best melee troops.

[Alexvrahr]

The BAMF stops it being shot to pieces at a distance especially if there's some battlefield control effect pinning it down. Up close the paralyzing spores are how it should use its immediate action. If your players are completely reliant on the former tactic, or perhaps on a single tank to protect the squishies, then I could see losing a CR as it loses its ability to dodge to cover or to bypass the front line.

[Thunder999]

Honestly the ability isn't that powerful anyway, it'll save if from a melee full attack once per round, but (barring a few natural attack based builds) noone is going to have more than two attacks anyway, and given its complete lack of ranged abilities it's going to have to get back in melee range to hurt anyone anyway. It has ethereal jaunt anyway, so can already very easily escape a bad fight or movement hindering spells.

I would expect it to use the paralytic spores most rounds anyway, unless the party has some sort of natural attacking blender or poison immunity they'll probably do more to protect it by forcing multiple saves vs paralysis.

So I say it doesn't actually change the CR.

[Psyren]

It's purely defensive and can only be used when it's hit. And it doesn't stop that first hit, so it only really works against iteratives. I'd say removing it won't change the CR much if at all; -1 at absolute most.