Undead Army Quantity Check - Level 5 Cleric

[Delta_tea]

Hi All. I'm hoping to have my math checked. This is my first time running Undead in 3.5 so I want to be sure I'm doing the numbers right.

Items potentially used:

Rod of Undead Mastery (10000g, Libris Mortis, p 78)
Rod of Defiance (13000g, Libris Mortis)
Scepter of the Underworld (9000g, Libris Mortis)
Lyre of the Restful Soul (3000g, Libris Mortis)

Domains & Feat potentially used:

Deathbound Domain (Spell Compendium)
ACF: Domain Focus (Dragon 347)
Fel Animate Feat (Libris Mortis)


Level 5 Cleric
Animate Dead – 20 HD max total (4x5 levels)
Per creature: pre-skeleton 20 HD, pre-zombie 10 HD (becomes 20 HD)
Single cast limit, 5*2 = 10 HD

Advanced
Rod of Undead Mastery – doubles HD limit – 20 HD → 40 HD

Deathbound domain – control 50% more undead
ACF: Domain Focus – Sacrifice one domain to double effect on another. DBD goes to 100% more. With RoUM 40HD → 80 HD

Animate Dead – Zombie Dragon, no HD limits, just need to find a dead dragon
Silver Zombie comes with paralysis breath

Discounting the cost, 25g per HD adds up, so these are ideas on how to get discounts on Animating
Fel Animate Feat, 3+1 Turn Undead charges with DMM – FA needs the killing blow and limits HD of the zombie(s) created to twice caster level HD per use. 10HD

Night Caller (7000g) – creates up to 2 zombies per use, use once per week

Rubuke/Commanded – 5 HD max total (5 levels)
Advanced
Rod of Undead Mastery – should doubles HD limit – 5 HD → 10 HD

Rod of Defiance – All creatures treated as 4 HD fewer, min 1 HD. AKA ~9HD max

5 HD → 1 HD, so 5 HD is actually 5x5=25 HD worth (best value)
9 HD → 5 HD, or you can have 1x 9 HD Undead

Scepter of the Underworld – Like RoD only 3 HD fewer, min 1 HD. Can it be double wielded with RoD?

5 HD → 1 HD, so 5 HD is actually 5x5=25 HD worth
8HD → 1 HD, so 5 HD is actually 5x8 = 40 HD worth (best value)
12 HD → 5 HD, or you can have 1x 12 HD Undead

Lyre of the Restful Soul, if it works -4 HD, min 1 for 10 rounds. Add to the stack...

5 HD → 1 HD, so 5 HD is actually 5x5=25 HD worth
12HD → 1 HD, so 5 HD is actually 5x12 = 60 HD worth (best value)
16 HD → 5 HD, or you can have 1x 16 HD Undead

Command Undead (borrowed with Anyspell) – no HD limit, refresh every 5 days (5 levels)
Caution note: Use on nonintelligent undead only to avoid saving throws, can be dispelled
Advanced
Chain Spell Metamagic, 3+1 Turn Undead charges with DMM – hits Primary + 5 (level) Secondary targets, aka nice spell slot savings

Summary:
Animate Undead: 20 HD base, potentially boosted to 80 HD
Animate Undead, Zombie Dragon: unlimited HD

Rebuke/Command: 5 HD base, potentially boosted to 60 HD x 2 (RoUM) = 120 HD w/ best value monsters

Command Undead: unlimited HD, 6 monsters per spell slot w/Chain spell

Thanks for the double check!

[Elkad]

I'd apply doubling doubling undead as a tripling at my table, as per PHB p304

So 20HD+100%+100%=60HD, not 80HD.

But, as always, it's poorly defined, so ask your own DM.

[Delta_tea]

I'd apply doubling doubling undead as a tripling at my table, as per PHB p304

So 20HD+100%+100%=60HD, not 80HD.

But, as always, it's poorly defined, so ask your own DM.

Good point I'll ask. I also forgot to add Desecrate into the equation.

"This spell imbues an area with negative energy. Each Charisma check made to turn undead within this area takes a -3 profane penalty, and every undead creature entering a desecrated area gains a +1 profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD.

If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled (-6 profane penalty on turning checks, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points per HD for undead in the area).

Furthermore, anyone who casts animate dead within this area may create as many as double the normal amount of undead (that is, 4 HD per caster level rather than 2 HD per caster level)."

[noob]

Good point I'll ask. I also forgot to add Desecrate into the equation.

"This spell imbues an area with negative energy. Each Charisma check made to turn undead within this area takes a -3 profane penalty, and every undead creature entering a desecrated area gains a +1 profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD.

If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled (-6 profane penalty on turning checks, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points per HD for undead in the area).

Furthermore, anyone who casts animate dead within this area may create as many as double the normal amount of undead (that is, 4 HD per caster level rather than 2 HD per caster level)."

It is really useful for one reason: while it does not increase the hd control cap it allows to have lower amounts of higher quality undead which means that in practice you will benefit more from your undead while spending a lower amount of time managing them during fights.
The only case where desecrate allows to go over the normal total animated hd cap is if you animate a single undead who have more hd than the cap.
So lose some quantity but gain efficiency and annoy less your gm and gain time.

For the rebuke I suggest you try to get a single high rank special undead(such as a caster undead or one of those undead who have tons of cool slas or special abilities) under your control: usually if you can pick an undead with 4 more hd you are more likely to be able to pick one with really good abilities (and some really good abilities are worth having 5 times less undead since you have a party too right?(if you do not have a party then body count is more valuable because you increase body count in proportion more per body))

[Segev]

AFB at the moment, but IIRC the Deathbound domain gives you command undead, the spell. If not, you may want to see if you can find any way to slip that onto your cleric. Command undead, by itself, lets you control a single unintelligent undead target regardless of its hit dice without counting against any of your control caps. Use this on your Hulking Corpses or other high-HD skeletons and zombies.

For further optimization, Chain Spell will up the number of undead you control per casting to 1+CL, and, as long as you're targeting only unintelligent undead with it, they still get no save and are utterly controlled. This does take a 5th level spell slot...unless you can get ahold of Slaymates. 3 Slaymates will make Chain Spell free to apply to any and all necromancy spells you wish to apply it to.

Extend Spell is also very useful with command undead: for +1 spell slot level (or 1 Slaymate), you go from 1 day/CL to 2 days/CL duration.

Put it all together, and with 4 Slaymates hanging around when you prepare your spells, you can have Extend Chain command undead prepared in a 2nd level spell slot. If you prepare only one of these per day, and just maintain an optimal cycle of undead you're controlling with it, that gives you (1+CL)*2*CL mindless undead you control. Not hit dice of undead, individual undead. So a level 5 cleric with this setup could have (1+5)*2*5 = 60 mindless undead of any number of hit dice each under his control. Put your biggest, strongest skeletons and zombies in this pool.

You'll want to keep the Slaymates Rebuke/Commanded, though, if possible. Tricky at lower levels, but it avoids control issues. If you must use command undead to control them, remember that they actually get a save, and that even if they fail they are merely effectively Charmed, not Dominated the way mindless undead would be.