Making a decent 8th level warrior

[Jeivar]

A friend of mine will be running a 5e campaign soon, and he's starting us off at 8th level. I'm not the biggest expert on 5e, so I just thought I'd get some advice on being a non-sucky warrior.

I kind of want to do a Shadar-Kai fighter, because their edginess is just hilarious, and make them a Dexterity-focused dual-wielder. I'm thinking Champion archetype, with the Two-Weapon fighting style, and for feats I would go with Defensive Duellist and Dual Wielder. Or possibly Lucky, because that one just allows a reroll.

I also discovered the Blood Hunter a few days ago, and I'm intrigued. Sure, it's a blatant Witcher clone, but I've never believed in taking characters too seriously. So... Path of the Mutant, with Great Weapon Fighting, plus Great Weapon Mastery, plus Lucky? I like the "having to prepare ahead, Batman-style" aspect of this class, and the sheer versatility of the mutagens. But as eager as I am to have fun with "kewl", I'm not willing to suck completely. What is the actual experience with this class?

And finally, I can't help but eye the Monk, the Way of the Shadow, plus the Mobile feat, and wonder if the DM will let me use the whip as a Monk weapon. You know, to continue with the theme of "edge".

[Yakk]

Important things for a 5e warrior, in no particular order:

(a) Extra attack
(b) Additional ways to get more taps
(c) -5/+10 feats
(d) AC
(e) Resistance to damage
(f) Self healing/sustain
(g) Burst damage for tough fights
(h) Making sure you can hit things
(i) Defence against "save or lose"
(j) Ability to engage flying/teleporting/phasing enemies

An 18 strength PAM/GWM plate wearer using a glaive is an example of a solid build. It has (a), (b), (c), (d). Make it a battlemaster and you get (g) and (h).

(Use precision attack, which makes your -5/+10 when it misses by 1-4 usually hit (only use it on misses by 1-4); 2d10+1d4+42 (55.5) is a lot of damage at level 8, plus a reaction often for another 1d10+14).

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Dex based melee builds lack (c), which means they leave a lot of damage on the table.

Another example is 18 dex hand crossbow XBE/SS. It deals up to 3d6+42 (52.5), and has a 120' effective range.

In comparison, a vanilla double-longsword 20 dex character deals 3d8+15 (28.5). A different league against lower AC foes. On action surge it deals 5d8+25 (47.5).


A longsword-and-shield has 2 more AC (and cheaper +1 enchantments than on armor), and deals 2d8+14 damage (23), the same league as the dual-wielder; on action surge it deals 4d8+28 (46), almost completely closing the gap with the dual wielder.

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A double-scimitar is an alternative to a double-longsword. 5d4+15 is 30 with GWF, more damage than the double-longsword build. And +22 damage from action surge for 52. It is also edgier.

However, it lacks the HEAVY property, so you cannot use -5/+10 feats. Which places your damage a tier down over GWM/GWF.

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Smite is another decent source of damage. A level 6 Paladin/Level 2 Bard that plans to go into Whispers is viable; or, if you want a bit more frankenstien, Paladin 6/Warlock(Hexblade) 1/Bard 1.

15 strength (for plate), 18 charisma (for ... everything else), rest in con/wis/dex/int.

You have 20 AC and a basic attack routine of +8 @ 2d8+12; nothing special. You are a 4th level spellcaster, and burn slots on smiting (17d8 per long rest), and have a bonus 1st level Warlock per-encounter slot (2d8 smite).

You have access Armor of Agathys, Hex, Shield (pick 2) from Warlock, all really nice combat buffs, if they are better than more smites.

At level 10, you join Whispers, and get 4 additional 2d6 long rest bard-smites (28). You are now a 6th level spellcaster.

At level 11 your cha hits 20, +1 to hit/damage and another bard-smite, and bard-smite damage becomes 3d6 (42).

At level 12 your bard-smites are now short-rest, so 15d6 per short rest (52.5). You are an 8th level caster to fuel your Paladin smites, 39d8 (175.5) of smite per long rest. In a one-encounter-per-day situation you'll be very very strong. In a longer day, you'll keep pouring out the damage, dropping big foes early in fights.

Pick an edgy Paladin oath (Vengence is standard; gives advantage with oath of emnity, which opens up crit-fishing) and wear black plate armor.

Your saves are crazy good, and you continue to get utility from your Bard half. At level 18 you gain magical secrets, and get something like Holy Weapon (+2d8 damage for an hour from a 5th level slot, not bad) and Find Greater Steed (concentration-free flying), for another bump.

Your Bard-smites continue to scale, as does your spell levels.

Now, note that all of this work ends up keeping up with the vanilla XBE/PAM fighter above. It has better crits, and more utility.

At level 12 with modest magic items (+1 handXBow and bracers of archery that work on bolts), the XBE fighter has 4d6+72 damage at-will (86), and 3d6+54(64.5) action surge burst.

The Paladin-Warlock-Bard above burning 2 4th level slots and a whispers-smite with a flametongue deals 12d8+7d6+15=93.5.

The PWB has better accuracy, and can channel divinity for advantage (and save 4th level slots for when she crits), but raw damage the really basic -5/+10 with extra tap builds are really strong.

[CTurbo]

Shadar-Kia huh? I'd rather go Gloom Stalker Ranger than Fighter for that. Especially if you can use the UA Revised Ranger. You could stop at level 3, 5, 7, or even just go full Ranger 8. If you're going to play long term, then Rogue, Fighter, or Monk multiclasses well with Gloom Stalker. You could go Gloom Stalker 3, Shadow Monk 17 and it would be great. Gloom Stalker/Rogues are great too. Even Gloom Stalker/Barbarians could work.


Anyway, straight Fighter is going to be a great warrior no matter what you do within reason. I agree that Battlemaster is usually a better choice than Champion.

Paladins are awesome warriors too. Just go Paladin 8 and bump Str and Cha at levels 4 and 8.

[CheddarChampion]

I'd like to suggest you at least change to a battlemaster.

How about a battlemaster 5/arcane trickster 3?
You get:
A few spells for utility
Two skills you're great at
Better movement options
Tricks when you attack (maneuvers)
18 (+4) Dex
A situational +2d6 damage from sneak attack
Two or three attacks each dealing 1d6+4 base damage

For reference, a level 8 champion with 20 (+5) Dex and the dual wield we feat gets 3d8+15 (or 28.5) damage on a turn if everything hits.
This build would get 5d6+12 (or 29.5) if all hits land and you get sneak attack damage.
The drawback is hitting 5% less of the time than the champion does and that your AC is 2 points lower so you get hit 10% more often.

If only two attacks hit, we get 2d8+10 (19) vs 4d6+8 (22). If only one hits, 1d8+5 (9.5) vs 3d6+4 (14.5).

(Don't let the name fool you, you get the extra sneak attack damage if you attack an enemy distracted by someone else waving a sword in their face or by getting the upper hand against them. Attacking when hidden, attacking a prone target with a sword...).

[Dork_Forge]

Personally I'd go for Battle Master Fighter 5/Gloom Stalker Ranger 3. Then on your next level ups take Ranger to 4 for the ASI and just pump Fighter from there on, you end up getting two ASIs back to back with a third not far away.

[Jerrykhor]

I was like you, rolled up a complete Edgelord for laughs. I went Dhampir Hexblade, though the race was homebrew of course. Nothing screams Edgy more than a pale-skinned, anime white-haired cringe-fringe dude with 8 strength but wields a massive greatsword.

[Yakk]

Hexblade 3/BM Fighter 5 (GWF) with GWM.

Half plate, 14 dex, 16 charisma. 13-14 wisdom.

You summon a greatsword (later a glaive) you call "the dark night black blade of pain and agony".

You have shield (+5 AC) spell and an invocation (agonizing blast, giving you acceptable ranged damage?). If you have a grappler in the party, consider "Hex" for save-free disadvantage on all strength or dex checks (it can also shut down counterspellers).

BM maneuvers are Precision Attack (bread and butter, make -5/+10 attacks hit instead of miss), Riposte (m0re swings). If you have a Rogue in the party, Commander's Strike (gives them an off-turn sneak attack, very tasty), otherwise pick to taste.

Next levels is fighter 6 for the ASI (+2 CHA), followed by gloomstalker ranger (3) for Dread Ambusher and Umbral Sight. You have 2 "pocket" ASIs in exchange for a level, or you can just push fighter up.

Progression plan:

Hex3/BM5
Hex3/BM6 (ASI, 18 cha)
Hex3/BM6/Gloom1 (ask if you can get class feature variant Foe)
Hex3/BM6/Gloom2 (Ranger spells)
Hex3/BM6/Gloom3 (Dread Ambusher, Umbral Sight)
Hex3/BM7/Gloom3 (+1 Sup die, BM ribbon, 2 more maneuvers)
Hex3/BM8/Gloom3 (ASI, 20 cha)
Hex3/BM9/Gloom3 (Indomidable)
Hex3/BM10/Gloom3 (d10 BM dice, 2 more maneuvers)
Hex3/BM11/Gloom3 (3rd attack)

Now you have 3 levels. You have 3 "pocket" ASIs each for a level, and a 2nd Warlock level buys you 3rd level slots and a Warlock invocation (eldrich smite?).

Or move Hex 5 up to get Smite earlier. 8d8 short rest damage and prone for advantage on 2nd attack is not nothing, and the ASI can get you +2 cha or PAM.

Lots of ways to go.

Here is a smite-first plan:

Hex3/BM5
Hex4/BM5 (ASI, 18 cha)
Hex5/BM5 (Smite (8d8 per rest), 3rd level slots)
then
level 13: Hex5/BM5/Gloom3 (Dread Ambusher, Umbral Sight, HM)
then
level 19: Hex5/BM11/Gloom3 (Extra attack, 4 maneuvers, indomidable, d10 BM die, 2 ASI for 20 Cha and PAM)

For level 20, you get an ASI. Boooring. But you are a pretty edgy package.

Or cut gloomstalker ranger entirely:

Hex3/BM5 (start)
Hex5/BM5 (8d8 of smites, 18 cha, level 3 warlock slots for utility)
Hex5/BM11 (extra attack, 20 cha, PAM for bonus action smack)

Now, Hex9 gives you 2 invocations, an ASI, and 5th level Warlock slots.

BM 15 gives you another BM die, 2 ASIs, 2 maneuvers and a 2nd Indomitable.

Gloom 3 (requires starting wis of 13, or burning an ASI on boosting wis from 12 maybe with Resiliant) gives some nice toys; defering it to later.

At level 8 your 3 round damage spike is:
2*(4)*(2d6+13) = 160, which isn't bad (I assume we save BM dice for precision, so your attacks hit reliably).

At level 10 you add on 8d8 or 36 damage from smite (plus prone and more crits) that is reliable, and +1 to hit, and +1 to damage (8).

At level 11 you grab PAM and hit 2*(4)*(1d10+14)+3*(1d4+14)=205.5
At level 13 you get 20 cha and hit 2*(4)*(1d10+15)+3*(1d4+15)=216.5
At level 16 you are at 3*(4)*(1d10+15)+3*(1d4+15)=298.5

A pure BM probably does better than you do, but you can prone for your allies and can use your smite-slots on other warlock utility.