Druid/Monk, mouse ninja?

[NRSASD]

Can a 18th lvl monk/2nd lvl druid use ki points or monk class features while wildshaped? Can we see a rat use quivering palm on a goblin? Can we see four attacks a round at a d10 each from a rodent?
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScaryInsistentAppaloosa-size_restricted.gif

[GentlemanVoodoo]

By RAW yes. Rules are unclear in this regard of what can and cannot be done in wildshape regarding other classes. But if popular opinion is if the druid can benefit with Rage or Unarmored Defenses then sure. Best rule of thumb is to discuss this with your DM.

[Lavaeolus]

Can a 18th lvl monk/2nd lvl druid use ki points or monk class features while wildshaped?
More generally: yes. Monk's Martial Arts die and Quivering Palm kicks in when you make an unarmed strike, and most of their other stuff requires the Attack action. For most creatures this isn't a problem, although note that a lot of the time it doesn't work if you, e.g. take the Claws or Multiattack actions a creature might have.

The DM has some judgement in deciding whether "the new form is physically capable of [using a feature]", but for most creatures it shouldn't be trouble.


Can we see a rat use quivering palm on a goblin? Can we see four attacks a round at a d10 each from a rodent?
The question, then: can a rat take the Attack action, and can they do an unarmed strike? How about a spider?

I'll be honest: there's a strong gut instinct in me screaming 'no'. Certainly, a rat has a defined rule for Biting someone -- and it does an extreme 1 damage -- but my imagination says that if a rat tried to throw its body against you, headbutt you, it would probably be pretty insignificant. So too for most Tiny, household spiders: outside of biting me and injecting me with venom, I cannot imagine a spider being able to do much physical harm to me. If it just up and charged me, it'd be pretty ineffective.

But, well, I suppose there isn't actually anything saying a rat or a spider doesn't have access to unarmed strikes, and generally creatures are assumed to be able to make an unarmed strike unless stated otherwise. So maybe! But unarmed strikes are said to be "a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow", and I don't think a DM would be remiss to rule that, no, a normal rat does not have the capabilities to make said forceful blow. That does, however, drift from strict-RAW to DM interpretation.

Of course, rats and spiders have other issues that make them not the BEST combatants. Rats have 11 DEX and spiders have 14, so neither are physical powerhouses (more generally evidenced by their abyssmal 2 STR). They also, you know, only have the 1 hit point.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'll be honest: there's a strong gut instinct in me screaming 'no'. Certainly, a rat has a defined rule for Biting someone -- and it does an extreme 1 damage -- but my imagination says that if a rat tried to throw its body against you, headbutt you, it would probably be pretty insignificant. So too for most Tiny, household spiders: outside of biting me and injecting me with venom, I cannot imagine a spider being able to do much physical harm to me. If it just up and charged me, it'd be pretty ineffective.
Counterpoint: The visual is hilarious.

This is one of those weird multiclass ideas that deserves to be allowed for the amusement factor alone.

[Composer99]

Splinter approves of this build.

[CTurbo]

A common housecat has a 15 Dex so yeah it would be doing 1d10+2 per claw attack with potential stuns lol

[Lavaeolus]

Counterpoint: The visual is hilarious.

This is one of those weird multiclass ideas that deserves to be allowed for the amusement factor alone.

I mean, I can't argue against that. And the rules don't really outright rule it out...


A common housecat has a 15 Dex so yeah it would be doing 1d10+2 per claw attack with potential stuns lol

You've fought ogres... you've fought through the necromancer's lair... you beat the Dark Knight Sir Fancypants and the archlich Xurhgsuhx...

Now, Sir Mouse... you face your final foe, your truest rival...

The Cat Monk.

[sambojin]

Yeah, it would work. *Everything* has an unarmed attack, even if it isn't listed. It's just that yours is at d10 magic bludgeoning damage for being a high level monk, and you can do stuff like martial arts and stunning strikes when you do.

Some of the to-hit will be pretty bad though. But in theory it should use the wildshape's stats + your proficiency, so is often a lot better than the actual form's normal attacks. At lvl20 a cat would be headbutting for +2(Dex)+6(proficiency), so +8to-hit. They'd still be at +0 if they used their claws.

(still not great compared to +5(stat)+6(prof)+1-2'ish(magic weapon) for +12-13 at 20th level. So you can do it for the lols, but it's not exactly powerful. A ninja brown bear or warhorse would be at +10, which does make a difference)

[pr4wn]

"Go for the eyes, Boo!"