Optimizing K'yorl Horlbar

[Bartmanhomer]

Hello everybody. I want to optimize my character K'yorl Horlbar, A Chaotic Good Male Lesser Drow Cleric of Eilistraee. Here's his character sheet: https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2195596 I'm thinking of multiclassing and dipping Swordsage to Level 2 to add maneuvers to dish damage with that class. Also, the Domain spells for his patron deity Eilistraee are Charm and Lust. To be fair he's a romantic with pretty much fit his archetype in his cleric class. And hopefully in later levels he could add a prestige class to his potential. So if anybody else have any suggestions, please feel free to comment. Also I know that K'yorl is female name because I thought it was a male name. But it doesn't matter, I'm sticking with this name. :smile:

[Gavinfoxx]

Several things:

* Where's your strength? Why is it so low?
* Why is your dex so high? You could set it at 8 and Lesser Drow would put it to 10.
* Why aren't you a Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge Devotion?
* Where are your non-core spells?
* Why no Flaws?
* Why no Traits?
* What's your point buy or array or rolled stats?
* Why not Destroy Undead?
* Why not fight with a longspear or fauchard, and spiked gauntlet as backup, to get yourself some reach?

[Bartmanhomer]

Several things:

* Where's your strength? Why is it so low?
* Why is your dex so high? You could set it at 8 and Lesser Drow would put it to 10.
* Why aren't you a Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge Devotion?
* Where are your non-core spells?
* Why no Flaws?
* Why no Traits?
* What's your point buy or array or rolled stats?
* Why not Destroy Undead?
* Why not fight with a longspear or fauchard, and spiked gauntlet as backup, to get yourself some reach?

1. I thought 10 was a reasonable strength.
2. I want to multiclass and dip into Swordsage.
3. Darn it. I forgot about that class
4. I thought that I could stick with core spells.
5. I thought I put it already.
6. I thought I put it already as well.
7. I choose at random
8. I didn't know that.
9. I never thought of that.

[Gavinfoxx]

1. Why did you think that on a strength based class that can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1? It'll be level 3 before you can hit anything.
2. Not all swordsages are Dex based. Besides, you don't have a way to get Weapon Finesse early on. Setting Sun/Stone Dragon Swordsages work fine with strength focus. Also, why are you wanting to delay full casting? Swordsage flat out isn't really good enough to be delaying cleric casting and still call it optimized. It's okay, but maneuvers can't hold a candle to the combat spells available to a Cleric from 3rd level (2nd spell level) onward.
3. ;)
4. You can, but why would you? D&D 3.5 is complete, you're already playing an imbalanced edition, it's main strength is it's massive amount of options, why would you stay to the same old same old?
5. You didn't. Are you going DMM persist or something else?
6. You didn't
7. Is this an NPC? Are you the GM? Otherwise, tell us what the GM is allowing for point buy.
8. This option is simpler
9. That way you can ignore silly little shields, and gain benefits from high strength, that being one of cleric's 3 important stats (wis, str, con).


Edit: WAIT. AURA.

IS THIS PATHFINDER?

EXACTLY how are you mixing 3.5e rules and Pathfinder 1E rules? What takes precedence? How exactly is it working? This makes a huuuuge difference for 3.PF character optimization!

[Bartmanhomer]

1. Why did you think that on a strength based class that can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1? It'll be level 3 before you can hit anything.
2. Not all swordsages are Dex based. Besides, you don't have a way to get Weapon Finesse early on. Setting Sun/Stone Dragon Swordsages work fine with strength focus. Also, why are you wanting to delay full casting? Swordsage flat out isn't really good enough to be delaying cleric casting and still call it optimized. It's okay, but maneuvers can't hold a candle to the combat spells available to a Cleric from 3rd level (2nd spell level) onward.
3. ;)
4. You can, but why would you? D&D 3.5 is complete, you're already playing an imbalanced edition, it's main strength is it's massive amount of options, why would you stay to the same old same old?
5. You didn't. Are you going DMM persist or something else?
6. You didn't
7. Is this an NPC? Are you the GM? Otherwise, tell us what the GM is allowing for point buy.
8. This option is simpler
9. That way you can ignore silly little shields, and gain benefits from high strength, that being one of cleric's 3 important stats (wis, str, con).


Edit: WAIT. AURA.

IS THIS PATHFINDER?

EXACTLY how are you mixing 3.5e rules and Pathfinder 1E rules? What takes precedence? How exactly is it working? This makes a huuuuge difference for 3.PF character optimization!
I'm playing a solo PC for my own solo D&D 3.5 game.

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay, so running a game for yourself typically requires very very specific books to enable it to not suck. Which are you using? Or is someone else running it? Or are you writing a story? Also how are you doing 3.pf?

[Bartmanhomer]

Okay, so running a game for yourself typically requires very very specific books to enable it to not suck. Which are you using? Or is someone else running it? Or are you writing a story? Also how are you doing 3.pf?

What kind of books are you talking about? :confused: I'm running as both the DM and PC.

[Gavinfoxx]

Solo gaming modules. Cyoa type stuff. Being gm and pc sucks unless you have one of those.

Or is this a dmpc for your group? If so, that's a terrible idea too. Especially if you are playing a T1.

[daremetoidareyo]

Let's approach from a different angle.

I forget the character name, I'll call him K-bomb. Hes this lesser drow good guy of ellistrae with charm and lust domains. And these things are part of the charm of this character to you, correct?

And now, after paying his dues of being a good guy drow by going deep into the ellistrae worship, he wants a little combat flair to back up his smarmy lesser drow good guy thing he's got going, right?

What are these domains doing for you? And what combat class accompanies the charisma stat that im imagining that these domains probably use or positively augment?

Battledancer is probably an option. Get bab +1 and cha to AC. Pick a maneuver you like and martial study it at 3. Locks out your cleric armor option tho.

Paladin?

[Bartmanhomer]

Let's approach from a different angle.

I forget the character name, I'll call him K-bomb. He's this lesser drow good guy of illustrating with charm and lust domains. And these things are part of the charm of this character to you, correct?

And now, after paying his dues of being a good guy drow by going deep into the illustrate worship, he wants a little combat flair to back up his smarmy lesser drow good guy thing he's got going, right?

What are these domains doing for you? And what combat class accompanies the charisma stat that I'm imagining that these domains probably use or positively augment?

Battledancer is probably an option. Get bab +1 and cha to AC. Pick a maneuver you like and martial study it at 3. Locks out your cleric armor option tho.

Paladin?
Well, K'yorl domains are Charm and Lust. He's a romantic archetype of his character concept and a bit of womanizer and flirt.

[Gavinfoxx]

Are you...
1. Playing a solo module from a book?
2. Running a dmpc for your of friends in the game you gm?
3. Writing a story/book?
4. Trying to run a game for yourself straight from your imagination where you talk to yourself?

[Bartmanhomer]

Are you...
1. Playing a solo module from a book?
2. Running a dmpc for your friends in the game you gm?
3. Writing a story/book?
4. Trying to run a game for yourself straight from your imagination where you talk to yourself?

Number #4. Actually, I already made my own world where the heroes going to battle against the devils from invading their city.

[Gavinfoxx]

Hoo boy. I thought so. Here's my strongest suggestion:
Don't.

Really. Don't. It doesn't work. Ever.

[Bartmanhomer]

Hoo boy. I thought so. Here's my strongest suggestion:
Don't.

Really. Don't. It doesn't work. Ever.

Seriously. That's a bummer. All the hard work down for nothing. :frown:

[Gavinfoxx]

Do one of the other three things I mentioned.

[el minster]

Just use a module.

[Bartmanhomer]

Just use a module.

I will use a module and take you and GavinFoxx's advice.

[el minster]

I will use a module and take you and GavinFoxx's advice.

Also have a sidekick to help you. Maybe a spellthief

[Bartmanhomer]

Also have a sidekick to help you. Maybe a spellthief

Spellthief? Uhh....ok. :confused:

[el minster]

Spellthief? Uhh....ok. :confused:

Really just a guy to disable the traps but I'm partiale to spellthieves

[Bartmanhomer]

Really just a guy to disable the traps but I'm partiale to spellthieves

I was going to say a hard no but I feel like that a spellthief may have some potential in it. (A little potential.) So I'm going to say a maybe. :confused:

[Gavinfoxx]

Clerics can disable traps. Here's a high-optimization, level 1, 3.5e-only cleric that's a fantastic trap-manager. At level 1, it'll be the mule that's mostly winning the fights if you're a solo cleric. Clerics really come into their own at level 3, when 2nd level spells come online.

https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=292794

Also, you're mixing Pathfinder 1e and 3.5e rules with no rhyme or reason.

You need to get better at figuring out what is or isn't houserules. Join some actual 3.5e and PF1 games with various GM's. It'll help.

[Bartmanhomer]

Clerics can disable traps. Here's a high-optimization, level 1, 3.5e-only cleric that's a fantastic trap-manager. At level 1, it'll be the mule that's mostly winning the fights if you're a solo cleric. Clerics really come into their own at level 3, when 2nd level spells come online.

https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=292794

Also, you're mixing Pathfinder 1e and 3.5e rules with no rhyme or reason.

You need to get better at figuring out what is or isn't houserules. Join some actual 3.5e and PF1 games with various GM's. It'll help.

Thanks for the advice. I actually play mostly in D&D 3.5 games before a few times in this forum.

[Gavinfoxx]

Also, until level 3 or 4, most even-low-cr devils will mop the floor with Clerics; the spells to counter most of devil's tricks are level 2+, typically. And 'no non-core spells' means you can't use that level 0 cantrip/orison that lets your weapons be silvered, and you've got no sanctified magic, and your ways to make your weapons good aligned are pretty high level too. Most devils have dr good or silver, for example. Which you NEED strength and two handed weapons to get past... or have the appropriate weapon type.

So all of this is pointing to you not actually knowing the system that well (what with you trying to play 3.5e, but mixing random pathfinder rules in, for example). So play in an actual game! 3.5e, Pathfinder 1e, OR a specific, clearly-defined mix of the two.

[Bartmanhomer]

Also, until level 3 or 4, most even-low-cr devils will mop the floor with Clerics; the spells to counter most of devil's tricks are level 2+, typically. And 'no non-core spells' means you can't use that level 0 cantrip/orison that lets your weapons be silvered, and you've got no sanctified magic, and your ways to make your weapons good aligned are pretty high level too. Most devils have dr good or silver, for example. Which you NEED strength and two handed weapons to get past... or have the appropriate weapon type.

So all of this is pointing to you not actually knowing the system that well (what with you trying to play 3.5e, but mixing random pathfinder rules in, for example). So play in an actual game! 3.5e, Pathfinder 1e, OR a specific, clearly-defined mix of the two.
Ok then. Thanks again for the advice. :smile:

[el minster]

Well, the reason I was saying spellthief was to make it clear that they are inferior while still bringing something weird and useful to the table.

[Bartmanhomer]

Well, the reason I was saying spellthief was to make it clear that they are inferior while still bringing something weird and useful to the table.

Maybe I might use a spell thief or used one of K'yorl friends. :smile:

[Gruftzwerg]

I would consider a Deepwyrm Half-Drow as race. They also have the dragon-blooded subtype. This enables you to pick Draconic Aura: Vigor (feat) at lvl 3. It gives you (and potential allies near you) basically +1 fast healing for up to half of your max HP.

[el minster]

I would consider a Deepwyrm Half-Drow as race. They also have the dragon-blooded subtype. This enables you to pick Draconic Aura: Vigor (feat) at lvl 3. It gives you (and potential allies near you) basically +1 fast healing for up to half of your max HP.

Where does that race come from?

[Gavinfoxx]

Dragon Magic.

It also doesn't have any penalty to con or light blindness, which makes lesser drow a REALLY weak player character races.

[Maat Mons]

If you really want to play up the "I'm a lover, not a fighter" schtick, you could go Cloistered Cleric 5 / Mystic Wanderer 10 / Contemplative 5, and take the Dynamic Priest feat.

Mystic Wanderer lets you add your Charisma bonus to AC when not wearing any armor. And really, Eilistraee never wears clothes, so why should her clergy? Mystic Wanderer also gives you Timeless body, so your endurance in bed will be just as good when you're a shriveled, 400-year old man.

Contemplative gives you immunity to disease, which you know you're going to need with how much you'll be getting around. It also gives you immunity to poison. Alcohol is a poison, so this means you've never "had enough," so there bartender!

Dynamic Priest makes Charisma your casting stat for spells per day and max spell level, but not for save DCs.

Your base attack bonus will be +9, so you're not going to be any good with weapons. And your save DCs will be based on a different ability score from the rest of your spellcasting, so using magic against your enemies probably isn't going to be your forte either. But dealing with ruffians who try to punch your beautiful face is what your harem is for. Well, okay, it's not the only thing your harem is for, but it's definitely one of the things.

[Quertus]

I'm not sure how to respond to all the hate on solo play.

I mean, I run my own parties to test out my modules all the time. What's the problem? :smallconfused:

[Gavinfoxx]

I'm not sure how to respond to all the hate on solo play.

I mean, I run my own parties to test out my modules all the time. What's the problem? :smallconfused:

Those are just that. A test. Like a test combat for balancing purposes, sure, fine. Sample fights, sure.

But that's not what we have here. We have someone thinking this game is designed for it to be viable for you to just run and play a game for yourself... as in actually running and playing it, for real, as the primary experience. Without some kind of D20 CYOA type book involved.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm still going to run my own game. :annoyed:

[NontheistCleric]

Those are just that. A test. Like a test combat for balancing purposes, sure, fine. Sample fights, sure.

But that's not what we have here. We have someone thinking this game is designed for it to be viable for you to just run and play a game for yourself... as in actually running and playing it, for real, as the primary experience. Without some kind of D20 CYOA type book involved.

Well, as long as that's what he wants to do, and he gets enjoyment out of it... there's really nothing at all wrong with it. I mean, the game is not going to become more unbalanced or unworkable just because he runs it for himself, so as long as he can handle the mental gymnastics necessary to pull it off, why not?

[Bartmanhomer]

Well, as long as that's what he wants to do, and he gets enjoyment out of it... there's really nothing at all wrong with it. I mean, the game is not going to become more unbalanced or unworkable just because he runs it for himself, so as long as he can handle the mental gymnastics necessary to pull it off, why not?

Yes and so far, I'm doing great with my solo game. :smile: