"Perform" ranks and PrC requirements - 3.0/3.5 difference

[Kaleph]

"Perform" was a single skill during the 3rd edition time, that allowed use of a different type of performance (sing, poetry...) for each skill rank; in 3.5 it was updated and changed into a set of skills (like craft) so that e.g. perform (dance) and perform (sing) are two separate skills.

Some old PrC, like warrior skald and battlerager, required for entry some perform ranks AND ability to use multiple types of performance - e.g. perform (any hand instrument, singing, others) "x" ranks; now RAW it looks like you have to spend 2x or 3x in order to qualify.

I am quite sure that I saw instead somewhere a hint for the 3.5, that those AND requirements had now to be intended as OR, but I cannot track the source. Does anybody know what I'm talking about.

[Mike Miller]

I don't know the source of the classes you are referencing, but have you looked at the update docs for 3.0 ---> 3.5?

[Kaleph]

I don't know the source of the classes you are referencing, but have you looked at the update docs for 3.0 ---> 3.5?

Actually, I couldn't find a 3.5 update for Races of Faerun, which - if I am not mistaken - does not exist. That would help, of course, since I am interested in the update of a couple of PrC's that are contained therein.
In any case, if memory helps, I was remembering a generic explanation of the way those requirements had to be intended; possibly it was a subsequent Faerun handbook, or a FAQ or whatever, but I wasn't lucky when I've recently searched for it.

[TheCount]

if all else fails, the Versatile Performer feat from complete adventurer can cover the multiple perform requirements.

[InvisibleBison]

According to the 3.5 core rulebooks, 3.0 material requires "minor updates" in order to be used in a 3.5 game. Rewriting the prerequisites to a prestige class so that it requires the same number of skill points to have been spent in 3.5 as it did in 3.0 seems like exactly the sort of thing that rule was supposed to address.

[Kaleph]

if all else fails, the Versatile Performer feat from complete adventurer can cover the multiple perform requirements.
This was indeed one of my options, but sacrificing a feat it's a bit too expensive for what I had in mind.


According to the 3.5 core rulebooks, 3.0 material requires "minor updates" in order to be used in a 3.5 game. Rewriting the prerequisites to a prestige class so that it requires the same number of skill points to have been spent in 3.5 as it did in 3.0 seems like exactly the sort of thing that rule was supposed to address.
I agree, but I was sure I had found a guideline somewhere...

In the meantime, if you're curious, that's what I was working at - an old stub of a fochlucan lyrist build, where I had the generic class progression but never bothered assigning the class skills, so it was never finished; now it's done and included in my handbook.


twice 9th level arcane spells, 16/20 bab, bardic music and free metamagic:
crane clan human human paragon 1 / sha'ir 1 / human paragon +2 / geomancer 4 / warrior skald 1 / sha'ir +1 / sublime chord 1 / fochlucan lyrist 9

required feats: Nymph's kiss (1st), power attack (1st), shape soulmeld (, 3rd), open lesser chakra ([feet], 6th), quicken spell (9th), sudden maximize (athenaeum of boccob, 11th), chain spell (metamagic storm, 11th), metamagic song (12th), extra music (15th), practiced spellcaster (18th)
required skills: A whole bunch, but after you've fulfilled all the entry requirements you still have enough skill points to maxx concentration, diplomacy, knowledge (arcana), perform (poetry), spellcraft and umd.
required magic items: A wand of wraithstrike
recommended stats: Str 14, dex 10, con 14, int 14, wis 8, cha 16 (increased to 18 through human paragon's [i]ability boost)
recommended traits: Honest, polite

description: This build is basically to demonstrate how easier is, in some cases, to create with the sha'ir unorthodox builds that still are rules-legal (actually more rule legal as most fochlucal builds). If you want to enter melee, wraithstrike or a quickened polymorph are your tools to quickly end a fight; if you want to debuff, chained ray of dizziness or whatever. And you have bard spells for your social encounters - and more!
variant: You may exchange the metamagic feats, e.g. You could think to persist wraithstrike without occupying your 8th level slots (not that you really need to be stingy). You may also imagine different entry strategies, e.g. Harmonious knight instead of warrior skald if your dm thinks its inspire courage counts as bardic music.

[ranagrande]

"Perform" was a single skill during the 3rd edition time, that allowed use of a different type of performance (sing, poetry...) for each skill rank; in 3.5 it was updated and changed into a set of skills (like craft) so that e.g. perform (dance) and perform (sing) are two separate skills.

Some old PrC, like warrior skald and battlerager, required for entry some perform ranks AND ability to use multiple types of performance - e.g. perform (any hand instrument, singing, others) "x" ranks; now RAW it looks like you have to spend 2x or 3x in order to qualify.

I am quite sure that I saw instead somewhere a hint for the 3.5, that those AND requirements had now to be intended as OR, but I cannot track the source. Does anybody know what I'm talking about.

It is implied in the 3.5 Update Booklet where it says that "Perform (type, type, type)" changes to "Perform (category)"

So the Battlerager would require 2 ranks in Perform (Sing) and the Warrior Skald would require 9 ranks in Perform (Comedy, Oratory, or Sing) depending on what type of poetry the Skald is doing.