Lycanthrope ECL Redesign - Help wanted

[GrayDeath]

Heya Guys and Gals!

So, my CO DM and myself set out to make non "so theoretical its laughable OP" Lycanthropes kinda of worthwhile....and found out that its quite a bit harder than we expected when not using CL Builds.


So my question to the Forum is: What would need to change (that could be applied from your lowly 1HD Wererat to some massive Lycanthropes) regarding Lycanthropes to makle them low T3 to Mid T4 FULLY valid?

So far (so that you dont suggest what we thought off already^^) our ideas are:
removing any and all LA, modifying Lycanthrope HD to be D 10 and either have full BAB or higher Skillpts )depending on Type=.


Thanks in advance!

[GrayDeath]

No ideas except the mentioned one? :(

[winteranfang]

So my question to the Forum is: What would need to change (that could be applied from your lowly 1HD Wererat to some massive Lycanthropes) regarding Lycanthropes to makle them low T3 to Mid T4 FULLY valid?


I don't get what you mean exactly, but there are already lycanthrope prestige classes in Dragon #313. If you want to strenghten your lycanthrope character, use these classes with gestalt system (for example Barbarian 3//Werewolf 3). If you want to nerf your character, use these classes as normal prestige classes.

I hope that would help.

[Nifft]

Have you looked into how 3.0e did lycanthropes?

http://www.dragon.ee/30srd/ <-- in Templates, the absolute bottom-most link on the left-hand frame, yes frame, yes this is 2020 don't ask me

I'll quote the top of the template here:



Lycanthrope

"Lycanthrope" is a template that can be added to any humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the "character"). The creature’s type changes to "shapechanger." The lycanthrope takes on the characteristics of some type of carnivorous animal (referred to hereafter as the "animal"). This can be any predator between the size of a small dog and a large bear. The most common are listed in the table below. Some kinds of lycanthropes can also adopt a hybrid shape that combines features of the character and the animal.

A lycanthrope uses either the character’s or the animal’s statistics and special abilities in addition to those set out below.

Hit Dice: Same as the character or animal, whichever produces the higher hit point total. If the lycanthrope’s number of Hit Dice is important, as with a sleep spell, use the character’s or animal’s number of Hit Dice, whichever is greater.
Speed: Same as the character or animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using.
AC: The character’s or animal’s natural armor increases by +2, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using. (A wererat in hybrid form is an exception; see the entry below.)
Attacks: Same as the character or animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using. (A wererat in hybrid form is an exception; see the entry below.)
Damage: Same as the character or animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using.
Special Attacks: A lycanthrope retains all the special attacks of the character or animal, depending on which form it is using, and also gains those listed below.
Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex): Lycanthropes can communicate and empathize with normal or dire animals of their animal form. This gives them a +4 racial bonus to checks when influencing the animal’s attitude and allows the communication of simple concepts and (if the animal is friendly) commands, such as "friend," "foe," "flee," and "attack."
Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid hit by a lycanthrope’s bite attack in animal form must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 15) or contract lycanthropy. A wererat can spread lycanthropy with its bite or by hitting with a piercing or slashing weapon. Bludgeoning or nonpenetrating attacks do not transmit the condition.
Special Qualities: A lycanthrope retains all the special qualities of the character or animal and also gains those listed below.
Alternate Form (Su): All lycanthropes can shift into animal form as though using the polymorph self spell (though their gear does not change). Wererats, weretigers, and werewolves also can assume a bipedal hybrid form with prehensile hands and animalistic features. Changing to or from animal or hybrid form is a standard action. Upon assuming either form, the lycanthrope regains hit points as if having rested for a day. A slain lycanthrope reverts to its humanoid form, although it remains dead. Separated body parts retains their animal form, however. This shapeshifting ability can be difficult to control (see Lycanthropy as an Affliction, below).
Damage Reduction (Ex): A lycanthrope in animal or hybrid form gains damage reduction 15/silver.

Base Saves: The base saves are as for the character or animal, whichever is better. In addition, lycanthropes receive a +2 racial bonus to Fortitude and Will saves.

Abilities: For a lycanthrope in humanoid form, ability scores are unchanged. In animal or hybrid form, a lycanthrope’s ability scores improve by type, as set out in the table below.

Skills: Lycanthropes receive a +4 racial bonus to Search, Spot, and Listen checks when in humanoid form. In animal or hybrid form, these bonuses increase to +8. A lycanthrope in hybrid or animal form gains the same skills as a normal animal of its form in addition to the character’s skills. If a lycanthrope has a skill in both its humanoid and animal forms, use the better score. Afflicted lycanthropes also can learn the Control Shape skill (see the sidebar) as a class skill.

Feats: Same as the character. When in hybrid or animal form, the lycanthrope gains any feats a normal animal of its form has. A natural lycanthrope has the Improved Control Shape feat as a bonus feat (see below). Lycanthropes in hybrid or animal form have additional feats as set out in the table below.


You get either your own numbers, or the animal's numbers, whichever is better.

You don't have to pay for the animal's HD as if they were class levels.

It's probably not balanced as-is, but it's worth looking at as a starting point.

[GrayDeath]

Hmmm, interesting, thanks.

Ill give it a deeper look.

Still open for other suggestions. :)