Willowhelm's "instant" Army

[Willowhelm]

Hi.

Longtime lurker, first time poster... Not sure if this should be optimisation or rules question.

I fully expect that i've misread some vital part of this combination of spells and abilities or it has already been discussed elsewhere but I have been unable to find any such discussion. If that is the case then the rest of this post is a bit of a waste of time. At least i had fun thinking about it!

The basic idea is that with sufficient prep time you can use mass heal to bring 700 creatures into the battle in one action. No magic items. No infinite simulacrum. No coffeelock year without sleep. No necromantic cheese. No cost other than time.

You just have to be an 17th Level Arcana Cleric.

At the most basic:


Take True polymorph as your 9th Level spell pick from Arcane Mastery (17th level ability)
Cast True Polymorph to turn a willing creature into an ant.
(Repeat for 700 days)
Carry your 700 ants in their ant colony to the site of the battle
Cast Mass Heal. 1Hp to each ant (with a side order of 9th level dispel magic thanks to Spell Breaker)
Result: Your chosen 700 creatures appear on the battlefield.


With 5e action economy 700 creatures probably win whatever the fight was. Now you just have to deal with your new army and hope they don’t ruin the local area just trying to stay fed.

Some other thoughts:

If someone did this… Where would those 700 creatures appear? They were in one space before. Maybe one space each if you insist ants can’t overlap. Now each one might be gargantuan?!

You don’t have to waste all 700 days of prep at once. You can pick precisely how many ants to “activate”.

By my reading, Spell Breaker also allows you to “end one spell of your choice” so you could in theory have used true polymorph to do the usual shenanigans of turning rocks into your creature of choice and then changed that creature into an ant. Only end the second casting. Less reliance on finding 700 creatures when you can make them!

Animate dead also provides an easier source of willing creature but they won’t be willing when you activate them!

The basic version above is just one PC. Simulacrum is an easy way to double the size of the army or half the prep time. Similar prep time reductions if someone else has True Polymorph. Party of 4 with one simulacrum each gets you to roughly 3 month prep time.

If you’re a forest gnome or have speak with animals you can possibly talk to the ants or tiny animal of choice if that helps corral them.

You could surround your keep with 700 Awakened trees and then activate them to their original forms from your tower when needed. Or live on a cattle ranch where the cattle are more than they seem.

That murder of crows flying around the tower? That herd of sheep being driven through town? Who knows what flock of animals will suddenly become an invading army when you use Willowhelm’s Instant Army!

So. Who is going to shoot this plan full of holes and who has some nice embellishments? Creature choice instead of ants? How do you go about finding 700 willing creatures? What creatures do you want your army to consist of?



Extras:

Not sure if these should be their own threads or that would be spam so… for your further entertainment:

Willowhelm’s bag of mounts!

You could also turn use the creature-to-object (pebble) version or true polymorph and get yourself a selection of mounts or other meat-shield minions which you activate by casting anti magic field on yourself and bringing them in range. Just have another party member keep the pebbles in a normal sack and pass you the one you need. “I would like 8 bodyguards please” “Just the warhorse for now thanks” “Perhaps the pegasus today?”

Willowhelm’s bag of everything else!

Everything a hoarder could dream of. Object-to-creature-to-object(pebble) Have your retainer/golf caddy/squire/party member hold the bag. Pull a pebble out and it is now a boat. Another two - you have your oars. (Just as long as you keep up the anti-magic field). And a bottle of champagne. And your picnic. And literally anything else you prepared ahead of time.

Each bag obviously upgradeable to your extradimensional space of choice but it will still need to be held by someone else i’m afraid.

[GeoffWatson]

Who would be willing to spend years as an ant just to help you in one fight?

[JNAProductions]

Who would be willing to spend years as an ant just to help you in one fight?

This appears to be the main issue.

I'm assuming Arcana Cleric has an ability that lets the Heal be a dispel as well? I don't know that domain well off-hand, so just want to check.

But yeah-the trick is getting people willing to do this. Perhaps use Golems or something?

[Tvtyrant]

I would suggest dogs instead of people. 700 dogs is difficult but not impossible to acquire, and would sufficiently swarm whatever you attack.

You could also collect bad guys "You must allow me to turn you into an ant for a short period of time or die for fighting me!" Then use an illusion to make the enemy look like you and you like a normal person so the enraged bad guys kill your enemy.

[Willowhelm]

Who would be willing to spend years as an ant just to help you in one fight?

Well to tackle that question I’ll have to break up the assumptions in it.


Who - “Who” can be “what”. It doesn’t have to be a person. Arcana clerics are also well set up to bind various entities with their always prepared magic circle etc. It has also just occurred to me that you can use this method to turn giant rocks into flying animals and then back into rocks to bury your opponent... no willing creatures necessary.

Willing - they don’t have to be willing, willing to be an ant or for years. It’s just more convenient as no saving throw is required and they will be on board for the army stage. They only have to be willing to let you cast polymorph on them. Perhaps you have offered to turn them into something spectacular instead. While they’re an ant they have very low int and probably won’t care at all.

Years - average time would only be a year during prep. As mentioned above that can be reduced dramatically with some help. I initially wanted to use the time-stopping features of the creature-to-object version but as mass heal only works on creatures I could see how to mass dispel them.

Ants - it doesn’t have to be ants. I just picked them as the first small and easily managed/contained animal I considered. A veteran might be quite happy to spend a year as a bird, experiencing the joys of flight. Again - ants are just small. I’m definitely looking for suggestions as to what would be a better “transport” creature.

One fight - They’re still around after one fight. It isn’t a summoning spell where they disappear after. You still have a normal army after that and you’ll owe them. Perhaps these are lifelong soldiers who are willing to take a year as an ant for future benefits? Also if that one fight is to save the world as they know it... (you are level 17 after all)

And of course with the help of a bard, warlock, paladin, or even a rogue with expertise you may find convincing people quite easy. Even without bringing spells into the mix.

Then there are spells that summon creature that are already committed to do your bidding. Easy option (though as I said they may not be so keen when activated)


Lastly even if we take the question at face value and you’re going to be 100% up front with people about the whole plan and they will be ants...

I think plenty of people would be willing.


Duty - To end the big bad and turn the tide, some would give their lives. What is a year?
Curiosity - people are willing to make a one way trip to mars. Gods walk the planes as mortals. Someone out there would do it just for the experience.
Greed - Fame for taking part in the battle. Payment for time served.
Favours -Would you be an ant for a year if you could be a dragon ever-after?
Fanatics - you’re lvl 17. You’ve saved the country multiple times. You have fans.
Desperation - on the run from the law and want to hide? Living in wretched/squalid conditions and starving to death? 5 year prison sentence and this will count as time served...


I was writing this as the other replies came in so sorry for the places i've duplicated their thoughts.

[Willowhelm]

This appears to be the main issue.

I'm assuming Arcana Cleric has an ability that lets the Heal be a dispel as well? I don't know that domain well off-hand, so just want to check.

But yeah-the trick is getting people willing to do this. Perhaps use Golems or something?

They have Spell Breaker. I can't link out yet but hopefully copying the text of the ability here is fine:


Spell Breaker
Starting at 6th level, when you restore hit points to an ally with a spell of 1st level or higher, you can also end one spell of your choice on that creature. The level of the spell you end must be equal to or lower than the level of the spell slot you use to cast the healing spell.

[Nifft]

Yeah it's a good trick for suddenly surprising someone with an army, but the powerful aspect entirely contained in the fact that you have an army, and this trick does nothing to help you have an army.

The hard part seems to be getting an army in the first place.

[Damon_Tor]

This appears to be the main issue.

I'm assuming Arcana Cleric has an ability that lets the Heal be a dispel as well? I don't know that domain well off-hand, so just want to check.

But yeah-the trick is getting people willing to do this. Perhaps use Golems or something?

Also relevant: individual ants have a very short lifespan, some live less than a month. That said, "creature into object" has no size restrictions, so you could turn each of your "soldiers" into a grain of sand instead. An immortal wizard could spend centuries filling the halls his lair with sand made from True Polymorphed Animate Dead skeletons, so if any intruders started slinging around anti-magic effects (as one might expect that would be a useful tactic in a wizard's lair) you're suddenly packed in wall-to-wall with skeletons who chew your faces off.

[Willowhelm]

Yeah it's a good trick for suddenly surprising someone with an army, but the powerful aspect entirely contained in the fact that you have an army, and this trick does nothing to help you have an army.

The hard part seems to be getting an army in the first place.

Armies exist. If you want a mercenary army of skilled workers I think that’s 2gp x 700 x (700/2)... so near 500,000GP? (assuming you don't just pay them for the day you cast and the day you activate).

The major difficulty with armies is logistics. Maintenance, upkeep, feeding, travel... all take care of. I don't think the additional benefits of that should be underestimated. Surprising someone with an army inside their castle is very different to marching across a continent with one while they prepare for a siege.

And gathering 700 creatures doesn't need to be soldiers to be powerful. As suggested above - dogs would work. Squirrels. Anything in those numbers is going to be challenging.

[Tvtyrant]

Armies exist. If you want a mercenary army of skilled workers I think that’s 2gp x 700 x (700/2)... so near 500,000GP? (assuming you don't just pay them for the day you cast and the day you activate).

The major difficulty with armies is logistics. Maintenance, upkeep, feeding, travel... all take care of. I don't think the additional benefits of that should be underestimated. Surprising someone with an army inside their castle is very different to marching across a continent with one while they prepare for a siege.

And gathering 700 creatures doesn't need to be soldiers to be powerful. As suggested above - dogs would work. Squirrels. Anything in those numbers is going to be challenging.

Instant Rat Swarm feels like a very good high level villain trick. Thousands of rats suddenly pouring out of a sigil on the floor while the enemy quips and leaves is very cinematic.

The biggest issue with swarms of animals is keeping yourself from being eaten.

[Willowhelm]

Also relevant: individual ants have a very short lifespan, some live less than a month.

Don't get hung up on the ants. Choose any tiny creature with a long lifespan. Why not water bears? They basically live forever in their dormant states IIRC. Also a quick google implies that some ants can have multi-year lifespans. Pick that kind!


That said, "creature into object" has no size restrictions, so you could turn each of your "soldiers" into a grain of sand instead. An immortal wizard could spend centuries filling the halls his lair with sand made from True Polymorphed Animate Dead skeletons, so if any intruders started slinging around anti-magic effects (as one might expect that would be a useful tactic in a wizard's lair) you're suddenly packed in wall-to-wall with skeletons who chew your faces off.

I don't know what other anti-magic options there are except for anti magic field. That has a very small radius of effect so unlikely to have wall to wall skeletons. Also cheaper and easier to just have them in a room with an arcane-locked door and a magic mouth set to trigger and say the password. It doesn't have the same style points... but it is a lot quicker and doesn't require 9th level spells :P

Perhaps an effective option for defence against a beholder though? Everywhere it looks becomes a cone full of skeletons...

When you're playing with the object version though your imagination is the limit. You can turn a house into a creature, then into a grain of sand... and then pop out your house whenever you feel like it with an anti-magic field. Or dispel it entirely and you have just moved your house to a new location. See a castle you like on your travels? Take it home as a souvenir!

[JackPhoenix]

Also relevant: individual ants have a very short lifespan, some live less than a month. That said, "creature into object" has no size restrictions, so you could turn each of your "soldiers" into a grain of sand instead. An immortal wizard could spend centuries filling the halls his lair with sand made from True Polymorphed Animate Dead skeletons, so if any intruders started slinging around anti-magic effects (as one might expect that would be a useful tactic in a wizard's lair) you're suddenly packed in wall-to-wall with skeletons who chew your faces off.

Unless you have non-magical way to get those skeletons, they'll temporarily disappear while inside AMF.


Don't get hung up on the ants. Choose any tiny creature with a long lifespan. Why not water bears? They basically live forever in their dormant states IIRC. Also a quick google implies that some ants can have multi-year lifespans. Pick that kind!

How are you seeing all of them to target them with the Mass Heal? And if you want to go RAW, even tiny creatures (the smallest size category available) require 2.5' cube in combat.


When you're playing with the object version though your imagination is the limit. You can turn a house into a creature, then into a grain of sand... and then pop out your house whenever you feel like it with an anti-magic field. Or dispel it entirely and you have just moved your house to a new location. See a castle you like on your travels? Take it home as a souvenir!

Houses are not an objects as the game defines them.

[Nifft]

Armies exist.

Real-life armies exist. Do you happen to have one?

I don't, and it seems like getting one might pose some challenges.

(If your recruitment poster mentions that they'll be turned into squirrels, there will be one set of challenges. If your poster does not mention this crucial fact, there will be other challenges.)

[Willowhelm]

Real-life armies exist. Do you happen to have one?

I don't, and it seems like getting one might pose some challenges.

(If your recruitment poster mentions that they'll be turned into squirrels, there will be one set of challenges. If your poster does not mention this crucial fact, there will be other challenges.)

I don’t. But I’m not a level 17 arcane cleric owed favours by the entire country I’ve saved over the past 17 levels of adventures.

Again I think you’re hung up imagining these need to be people you’re recruiting and explaining the whole plan to. It just needs to be a creature that will let you cast a spell on it, and will fight the enemy when presented. Even the willing part is only for ease. Cast it on unwilling creatures if that’s your thing. Perhaps instant hoard or instant swarm fits the bill better?

[Willowhelm]

Unless you have non-magical way to get those skeletons, they'll temporarily disappear while inside AMF.


I’m not sure I agree on the skeletons but I’m not sure about the RAW there. Would you be allowed to dispel magic on a skeleton and turn them into bones again in your combat? Or are they created via magic but then a creature? (They do persist after the duration of the spell after all).


How are you seeing all of them to target them with the Mass Heal? And if you want to go RAW, even tiny creatures (the smallest size category available) require 2.5' cube in combat.

In your ant farm (assuming ants)? Not sure if you’re saying it would be hard to see them or what here? You’ve created them so they can be neon pink if you need them to stand out...

The size shouldn’t be an issue. If you’re Willing to insist that the ants need to be 2.5’ apart then miraculously they must be when you smash the jar/ant farm/whatever. That definitely puts them all inside a 60ft radius circle (or odd shaped box in dnd geometry)


Houses are not an objects as the game defines them.

Fair point. But how does it work if your house is inside a house sized chest?

[Nifft]

Cast it on unwilling creatures if that’s your thing.

Unwilling creatures seem like an absolutely terrible idea, unless what you want is an army fighting against you.

[MaxWilson]

Armies exist. If you want a mercenary army of skilled workers I think that’s 2gp x 700 x (700/2)... so near 500,000GP? (assuming you don't just pay them for the day you cast and the day you activate).

The major difficulty with armies is logistics. Maintenance, upkeep, feeding, travel... all take care of. I don't think the additional benefits of that should be underestimated. Surprising someone with an army inside their castle is very different to marching across a continent with one while they prepare for a siege.

And gathering 700 creatures doesn't need to be soldiers to be powerful. As suggested above - dogs would work. Squirrels. Anything in those numbers is going to be challenging.

If your goal is to get 700 dogs, why are you spending two years True Polymorphicing dogs into ants them just so you can break the True Polymorph later on? Why not just get 700 chickens (700 chickens x 2 cp each = 14 gp total cost) and Wish (Animal Shapes)? Plus that way you can turn them into rhinos or giant toads instead of dogs, and heal them during combat by re-Polymorphing injured ones.

[Chronos]

Does it count as "restoring HP" if the target creatures are already at their max HP? You might need the travel-sized form of your army to be something with 2 HP each, and then start by somehow doing 1 damage to everything.

[Willowhelm]

If your goal is to get 700 dogs, why are you spending two years True Polymorphicing dogs into ants them just so you can break the True Polymorph later on? Why not just get 700 chickens (700 chickens x 2 cp each = 14 gp total cost) and Wish (Animal Shapes)? Plus that way you can turn them into rhinos or giant toads instead of dogs, and heal them during combat by re-Polymorphing injured ones.

I wouldn’t say that is my goal. I’m asking the community group mind for an good use. What 700 creatures would you choose? Ancient dragons?

700 chickens is a lot harder to corral than a jar of ants. If you’re transforming them to ants with animal shapes it requires concentration and only last 24hrs I think? Not really comparable to an always ready portable hoard with no concentration required in my opinion. I wasn’t aware of that as an option though so thank you. I certainly wouldn’t want to waste time and 9th level spells to duplicate something that can be achieved more easily another way.

[Willowhelm]

Does it count as "restoring HP" if the target creatures are already at their max HP? You might need the travel-sized form of your army to be something with 2 HP each, and then start by somehow doing 1 damage to everything.

That is a good point. Any ideas how you could achieve that?

[Willowhelm]

Unwilling creatures seem like an absolutely terrible idea, unless what you want is an army fighting against you.

Some (chaotic evil) people just want to watch the world burn. Or cause chaos while they achieve their real goals elsewhere. Cast the heal while flying or with some other way to get out of dodge fast... or just make sure the enemy is more attractive to fight than you? Is it spellsniper that would double your range for the heal?

[JackPhoenix]

I’m not sure I agree on the skeletons but I’m not sure about the RAW there. Would you be allowed to dispel magic on a skeleton and turn them into bones again in your combat? Or are they created via magic but then a creature? (They do persist after the duration of the spell after all).

Dispel Magic doesn't work, because it only removes active spell effects. Animate Dead is instantaneous, so the magic is gone. However, AMF doesn't care about the duration, only about the origins. "A creature or object summoned or created by magic temporarily winks out of existence in the sphere. Such a creature instantly reappears once the space the creature occupied is no longer within the sphere." Zombies created by Animate Dead or Finger of Death fall under the "created by magic". Zombies spawned by a wight don't... while zombies are explicitly magical the same way dragons are, AMF doesn't care about that.... and wight's Life Drain doesn't count as magic as the rules define it, and thus AMF has no effect on them.


In your ant farm (assuming ants)? Not sure if you’re saying it would be hard to see them or what here? You’ve created them so they can be neon pink if you need them to stand out...

The size shouldn’t be an issue. If you’re Willing to insist that the ants need to be 2.5’ apart then miraculously they must be when you smash the jar/ant farm/whatever. That definitely puts them all inside a 60ft radius circle (or odd shaped box in dnd geometry)

And how many of those ants you'll be able to see at once, especially in any area that isn't empty white room? From how far can you see an ant? And how do you stop the ants from behaving like normal ants and running away? That's assuming normal ants would even be considered creatures and thus valid targets for Mass Heal... 5e creature rules don't work at all at that scale.


Fair point. But how does it work if your house is inside a house sized chest?

You turn the chest into whatever you want, but the house is still standing there, unaffected. The chest doesn't physically shrink, it's a chest one moment, and a pebble (or whatever) the next.


If your goal is to get 700 dogs, why are you spending two years True Polymorphicing dogs into ants them just so you can break the True Polymorph later on? Why not just get 700 chickens (700 chickens x 2 cp each = 14 gp total cost) and Wish (Animal Shapes)? Plus that way you can turn them into rhinos or giant toads instead of dogs, and heal them during combat by re-Polymorphing injured ones.

Animal Shapes requires the targets to be willing. That may or may not be a problem with bunch of random non-sapient animals.

[Mellack]

As someone else pointed out, I think you would first have to find a way to damage all of your intended army. The spell breaker power only works when you restore hit points. I don't think it would trigger if the target was at full HP to start with. That adds a whole new complexity, making it a lot less instant.

[MaxWilson]

As someone else pointed out, I think you would first have to find a way to damage all of your intended army. The spell breaker power only works when you restore hit points. I don't think it would trigger if the target was at full HP to start with. That adds a whole new complexity, making it a lot less instant.

This is simpler than you think it is, because True Polymorph ends when you hit zero HP, so you can just e.g. cast a weak save-for-half spell (e.g. Thunderwave) on your jar of ants, and they all turn back into slightly-damaged versions of whatever-they-were-before. You don't even need to spend a 9th level spell slot on Mass Heal.

I'm still extremely skeptical that this tactic would ever be worth the time investment compared to just Wishing for Planar Binding on entities that you can actually control. Probably your best bet is a PC like a warlock who has access to True Polymorph but not Wish, and has access to some ready supply of destructive but dumb monsters like Black Pudding (can be easily bred just by splitting and then presumably feeding them back up to full size) which you turn into spiders (lifespan: 1 to 7 years depending on species), which then gives you what are essentially Black Pudding Grenades: you toss out a cage full of N spiders with your object interaction and then "detonate" it with a Cloud of Daggers to create N Black Puddings wherever you need them, presumably surrounding the bad guy.

You'd still never bother creating 700 of them but I could imagine a warlock with a two or three Black Pudding Grenades on him at any given time, each of them with between 2 and 5 Black Puddings in it. He'd probably spend a lot of time babysitting his spiders, which would add its own kind of charm. Also, bad things happen if that warlock ever gets hit by a big AoE himself so maybe this is just a bad idea.

If you had a ready supply of Purple Worms you could do Purple Worm bombs instead but that's DM-dependent.

-Max

[Willowhelm]

This is simpler than you think it is, because True Polymorph ends when you hit zero HP, so you can just e.g. cast a weak save-for-half spell (e.g. Thunderwave) on your jar of ants, and they all turn back into slightly-damaged versions of whatever-they-were-before. You don't even need to spend a 9th level spell slot on Mass Heal.
-Max

That does simplify things quite a lot and means it is no longer reliant on an Arcana Cleric. Just straight up true polymorph shenanigans.

My reading of True Polymorph was different (and so might any given DM's) but it looks like JC/sage advice agrees with yours so that's that i guess. Assuming that you don't out-right-kill the original creature if you go negative over the max hit points of your transformed version. Also if you pick something that will take sufficient fall damage you don't even need your detonation spell - just chuck 'em.

[Willowhelm]

You turn the chest into whatever you want, but the house is still standing there, unaffected. The chest doesn't physically shrink, it's a chest one moment, and a pebble (or whatever) the next.


Thanks for your detailed clarifications on the other points. On this one - Could you tell me where to find the nitty-gritty rules around what constitutes an object? I would've assumed a cask of ale included the contents, as would a chest of treasure etc.

[JackPhoenix]

Thanks for your detailed clarifications on the other points. On this one - Could you tell me where to find the nitty-gritty rules around what constitutes an object? I would've assumed a cask of ale included the contents, as would a chest of treasure etc.

DMG. Can't tell you the exact page, going to sleep and not about to look for and through the book now. I'd say... p. 250-ish?

[MaxWilson]

Also if you pick something that will take sufficient fall damage you don't even need your detonation spell - just chuck 'em.

Ah, good point.

Note that if the DM takes the opposite interpretation (dropping to 0 HP leaves them in their transformed form), then True Polymorph is exploitable in the opposite direction: you can use it to turn yourself into e.g. a Spirit Troll and become essentially immortal.


Thanks for your detailed clarifications on the other points. On this one - Could you tell me where to find the nitty-gritty rules around what constitutes an object? I would've assumed a cask of ale included the contents, as would a chest of treasure etc.

I don't think 5E has any such exact definition which would tell you whether or not the ale in the cask includes its contents. The 5E way is to use natural-sounding rules with hidden highly-technical language like "willing" and "object", but usually to never define the meaning of these highly-technical terms except on Twitter. :-P In practice Twitter should be ignored, and it's up to the DM.

[Willowhelm]

DMG. Can't tell you the exact page, going to sleep and not about to look for and through the book now. I'd say... p. 250-ish?



I don't think 5E has any such exact definition which would tell you whether or not the ale in the cask includes its contents. The 5E way is to use natural-sounding rules with hidden highly-technical language like "willing" and "object", but usually to never define the meaning of these highly-technical terms except on Twitter. :-P In practice Twitter should be ignored, and it's up to the DM.

Thank you. Chapter 8 it seems. I'm using dnd beyond so no page numbers.


For the purpose of these rules, an object is a discrete, inanimate item like a window, door, sword, book, table, chair, or stone, not a building or a vehicle that is composed of many other objects.

So no house. But still not seeing anything about containers and contents.

Of course, apparently objects can be gargantuan and a castle wall still counts as an object...


Big objects such as castle walls often have extra resilience represented by a damage threshold.



Ah, good point.

Note that if the DM takes the opposite interpretation (dropping to 0 HP leaves them in their transformed form), then True Polymorph is exploitable in the opposite direction: you can use it to turn yourself into e.g. a Spirit Troll and become essentially immortal.

As a 9th Level spell that seems entirely in keeping with what i thought the intent was. If we compare it to the much lower level Wall Of Stone:


If you maintain your concentration on this spell for its whole duration, the wall becomes permanent and can’t be dispelled

So my reading of True Polymorph was that the permanent version overrode the drops to 0. Apparently that isn't RAI though. Seems a little underwhelming but not unreasonable.

[MaxWilson]

Of course, apparently objects can be gargantuan and a castle wall still counts as an object...

Yeah, so logically that implies that casting Reduce on a castle wall (or roof) would breach the castle. If the DM interprets "object" that way, at least.


As a 9th Level spell that seems entirely in keeping with what i thought the intent was. If we compare it to the much lower level Wall Of Stone:

The weird thing about Wall of Stone is that even once the wall becomes "permanent", it is still relatively easy to damage with normal weapons: a 6" thick wall is "destroyed" when it takes a mere 180 HP of damage, which apparently means it vanishes into thin air if you hit it with a bunch of arrows. No need for seige weaponry or even shovels against these walls, you can just tunnel right right with longbows from 50 yards away.


So my reading of True Polymorph was that the permanent version overrode the drops to 0. Apparently that isn't RAI though. Seems a little underwhelming but not unreasonable.

It's fine for the DM to go with either version, they're just exploitable in different ways. With the "permanent-but-ends-when-you-hit 0 HP" version, it's easier to exploit for temporary gain, e.g. True Polymorph yourself into a Pit Fiend, rest overnight, then go adventuring. At the point where you finally run out of HP and "die", you turn back into a 20th level wizard with full spells for the day. If you're playing where you stay an Ancient White Dragon at 0 HP, turning back into a wizard is harder (you may need a Glyph of Dispel Magic, or multiples of them), but conversely you get to stay a Pit Fiend longer. Either way it's an excellent and very powerful spell.

As a grognard DM, my actual preference would be option #3: if it lasts for more than an hour, it's permanent, full stop. You're no longer a 20th level wizard in any sense, you're now a Pit Fiend, and your mental stats, alignment, etc. all change to that of a Pit Fiend. Tear up your old character sheet and make a new one that just says "Pit Fiend" on it. Choose your new form carefully because it's going to be permanent, barring Wish (the full-stress version that risks burnout).

[SirGraystone]

Spell Breaker

Starting at 6th level, when you restore hit points to an ally with a spell of 1st level or higher, you can also end one spell of your choice on that creature. The level of the spell you end must be equal to or lower than the level of the spell slot you use to cast the healing spell.

The two important part I see in this :

"When you restore hit points" some have already pointed out that an ant with 1 hp have no hp to restore since it's healthy already

and

"to an ally" not all your allies, but an ally which to me, mean you get 1 soldier and 699 ants.