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Leliel
2007-10-28, 05:33 PM
I'm sure everyone has heard of that mother-of-all conspiracy theories, the Illuminati, or at least, one of it's permutations (For those that haven't, look it up on Wikipedia. It's...difficult to explain here). During one of my more philosophical musings, I began too wonder "I know the Ickes of the world paint them as 'pure evil personified', but what's life like from their perspective? Assuming they exist, do they have an internal justification for everything they do, and if so, what is it? Could the Illuminati, or other organization there of, be considered 'good' from a certain perspective?" (And before anyone asks, no, I don't consider them to be an actual, existing organization. I do believe some of the saner tales about UFOs though (Abduction is an exception to this.).) Then, during a not-so-philosophical musing, I thought "How do I adapt a D&D game to this?" So...

How would you (The responders, for clarification) set up a campaign where the PCs are the non-evil agents of a world spanning organization that manipulates world events? What would the ultimate objective be? How would the PCs "bosses" organize such a massive group? Who would be the main antagonist(s)? How would one factor in Chaotic agents and members into such an organization? Why would they join? What would you do with "pawns" (people who are not aware of the organization, but are actively serving it's agenda)? How do the PCs deal with relationships outside of the organization? What is the ultimate aim of the conspiracy? How did it form? And finally, how the hell does "top brass" deal with so many plots at once, involving so many people at once, without their heads exploding on a regular basis?

Of course, the organization should not be behind "everything". They should have not organized a major catastrophe without any point like the Holocaust, for example. I also have major doubts that the PCs would willing work for an organization that would not allow the rest of the world some amount of free will. No election scamming, for instance.

And no, you are NOT allowed to debate my contention that some UFOs are real! That is a debate for another forum!

The Illuminati want you to answer this thread...Beacuse frankly, that's what the poster is asking for. It's not that hard, pawns. Come on, show a little bit of respect for your fellow man. Fnord.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-28, 05:37 PM
13013 wants youuuuuuuuuuu.....

I'm pretty sure the epic handbook had a Biiiiiiiig bad organization, and the literati could qualify as one of those.

Jarlax
2007-10-28, 05:57 PM
Harpers with a twist might work. that organization is world spanning, has its hands in the politics of every country and the only thing wrong with it is that it works for balance of power rather than world domination, the truth is they have the power to manipulate world events and simply choose to make balance their objective rather than control.

Belteshazzar
2007-10-28, 09:37 PM
Well a Call of Cthuhlu style setting would work easily enough to have such "oppressive" quasi-religious conspiracies be the good guys. Take the Men in Black for example. Sure they seem to have a menacing agenda, unnatural traits, and hardened attitude to civilians casualties.

However, consider this scenario: the Mi-Go (fungal psionic insects who can ride the aether waves through the seas of shadow) are one of the few alien races who don't consider humans to be somewhere between pests and a food crop (actually we are like a science project or a model train hobby but it's better than most other alternatives).

They screw around with humanities genes create the Greys (dopplegangers, and by extension the changelings) by splicing their own genes into humans. They are stretched thin from waring with the other races and leave behind Greys with some nice toys to protect some projects and leave only checking in once in a while.

For a time these Greys attempt to protect earth by hijacking human society through a technomagocracy to build their global protection pyramids. However, humanity proves too rebellious to use so directly. So the Greys fade into society with their natural abilities and rely on subterfuge to build up secret societies whose goal is the protection of humanity from malevolent Mythos deities, the careless Fae, the occasional daemonic possession and off course mankind's own stupidity. They engineered everything from the Cold War (nuclear proliferation gives mankind enough of a suitably powerful weapon to slow down most dangers) the Hippy era (okay now if we can stop them from trying to kill each other with nukes) to the modern troubles in the Middle east (we need to wean them off oil quick because if they keep drilling like this they are going to release some Shogoths or worse.)

From here you could do anything. Join the Men in Black under the Grey leadership and manipulate and protect humanity from itself and worse. Privately investigate the strange goings on and most likely die horribly. Get captured by the fey and either spend the rest of your life playing their "games." Trying to escape or explore into the sea of shadows and spend the rest of your life searching among the myriad of bubble dimensions floating there. Or become a cultist, see the world (burn) and meat interesting people (yes meat not meet).

TheLogman
2007-10-28, 09:43 PM
There's an organization in the Tome of Magic called the "Kingmakers" they basically make sure the right people get into power, groom successors, and do whatever it takes to manipulate the nobles all to keep the world on track, and themselves in power. They're also really deep into True-Speech, but that can be easily edited out. The Prerequisites are a few Knowledge Skills, mostly (Nobility) and (Local). A few Truespeech ranks are needed too, but you can change that to Knowledge (Arcana), and make them magic based if you want.

Crow T. Robot
2007-10-29, 04:49 PM
(Kev, Heath, Wy, Pete, and Paul Turn away, GM talk.)

There was The Company from the GURPS Black Ops is a world spaning group dedicated to saveing the human race from extinction or enslavement. They are controled by Argus, a group of about 12 of the worlds most powerful individuals (Political, industrial, military, and psychic). The actual troops number over 700. It is a small but extreamly powerful organization with acess to very advanced toys.

And where this deals with my groups is that on of the players has a secret patron. Who is small, yet possesses vast technology and power. In essence he is an operative for the Company without fully understanding who he works for. They let him have vast wealth and play super hero, in return he builds their gear and creates plausable reasons for new weapons to enter wide use.

And I will mess with him when I let him discover there is a world wide conspiricey to control the world, without telling them right away they are no the bad guys.

Leliel
2007-10-29, 05:25 PM
13013 wants youuuuuuuuuuu.....

I'm pretty sure the epic handbook had a Biiiiiiiig bad organization, and the literati could qualify as one of those.

Uh..Hello? Did you read the part where it mentions that these guys are the good guys? God, I mentioned it in the first line of my bolded text.

Leliel
2007-10-30, 12:28 PM
Oh, come on! It's not that bad an idea, is it?

Fiery Justice
2007-10-30, 12:43 PM
A conspiracy of, for instance, clerics could be trying to stop their religion from being oppressed (strike forces, intrigue, any method reasonable.)

For world domination, simply have them be an organization kind of like the United Nations in objective: Peace on earth, good will towards men, health and happiness to the populace, and similar. Have them set up groups to hunt down and kill the truly dangerous opponents to this goal (Hobgoblin and Orcish warlords for instance, or hitlerish other beings), spread cures to diseases, investigate threatening occurrences, and manipulate kings to peace and (ultimately) unification. Of course, many would oppose this LAWFUL GOOD objective, nationalists, expansionists, people who make profit off war and conflict, demons and devils, and so on.

Crow
2007-10-30, 12:46 PM
If you consider the UN Lawful or Good, you need to think again. But before I turn this into a political discussion, I think the idea of a large organization working behind the scenes to try and do some of those things is a great idea.

If they're just "out there" doing it, they don't really fit with the "perceived as bad, but actually good" thing the OP was talking about.

mostlyharmful
2007-10-30, 12:53 PM
How would you (The responders, for clarification) set up a campaign where the PCs are the non-evil agents of a world spanning organization that manipulates world events? What would the ultimate objective be? How would the PCs "bosses" organize such a massive group? Who would be the main antagonist(s)? How would one factor in Chaotic agents and members into such an organization? Why would they join? What would you do with "pawns" (people who are not aware of the organization, but are actively serving it's agenda)? How do the PCs deal with relationships outside of the organization? What is the ultimate aim of the conspiracy? How did it form? And finally, how the hell does "top brass" deal with so many plots at once, involving so many people at once, without their heads exploding on a regular basis?


Pretty much just by having them recruited, cold war spy-esque, out of various training facilities (Mage's school, Officers Training Academy, Religious Seminary, Diplomatic Core, Etc...) and have a handler. As the adventures go on they are fed information that makes it look like they're defendrs of the "common man" while they go throw a standerd variety of low level DnD quests. After a few weeks/Months start trickling tips that not everything is ok, maybe the King's men don't recognize your authority, maybe you get sent to do some questionable things, whatever.... start getting them deeper and deeper into a world of espionage, double-talk and compromise until they crack, go rogue and find out who the hell they've been working for and by extension who the hell they are. Then we have the part where they are confrounted by the same sets of problems as before but without the previous backing, resources and info.... they are still heros but find it harder to do the job outside the shadowy embrace of the company. Give them a chance to stay solo and try to make a differance or come home and try to stay good and change it from the inside...
The basic premise of the above being that 1 you can't always know who you're working for in that sort of set up, 2 nasty things have to be done and compromises made to be made to keep the "normals" all safe and secure and 3 sometimes the bastards way is just better and the ends do justify the means, or something suitablly bleak.:smallsmile:

then I hit them with corprate mindflayers.....

Fiery Justice
2007-10-30, 01:05 PM
WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED

to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and

to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and

to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,



AND FOR THESE ENDS

to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and

to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and

to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and

to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples, Is the objective of the UN as stated. It sounds both lawful and good. Whether the actual organization succeeds at its stated goal doesn't matter to my statements

Everyone hates conspiracies. Just naturally. The group is really, seriously, trying to take over the world and control the actions of individual "free" nations. Laws wouldn't matter to such an organization, though they would probably have an internal code. Assassination (to anyone outside the org it would be called murder) would be fairly common, and (fiendishly enough) they would be perfectly willing to say, dominate (the spell), kings and princes, force marriages, and so on. They wouldn't be willing to sacrifice their principals (like say, starting a war) and they'd never use their methods for evil, but dominating people isn't gonna make you popular now is it?

Fiery Justice
2007-10-30, 02:49 PM
Here's the answers to the questions:
How would you (The responders, for clarification) set up a campaign where the PCs are the non-evil agents of a world spanning organization that manipulates world events? They get recruited, and they start getting sent out.

What would the ultimate objective be? Of The Organization? Its stated farther down.

How would the PCs "bosses" organize such a massive group? Obviously, thorough recruitment of competent individuals subtly and through public arms of the organization.

Who would be the main antagonist(s)? It depends really, lots of nobles and kings would be opposed to it, and nationalists probably wouldn't be fond of it either. Anyone who has something to lose from world peace/unification.

How would one factor in Chaotic agents and members into such an organization? Honestly, I have trouble with this. Its a world dominating conspiracy for the sake of all things holy, chaos and world domination don't work together.

Why would they join? Its a good cause, and its got good funding and information.

What would you do with "pawns" (people who are not aware of the organization, but are actively serving it's agenda)? There are many such individuals, and they are encouraged and helped on the way up the chain of command or the power structure of whatever group they occupy.

How do the PCs deal with relationships outside of the organization? Um??? Could you phrase that a little better? Its not like they go around killing everyone who isn't part of the organization.

What is the ultimate aim of the conspiracy? To unify the world under the control of the conspiracy, to end war, and to aid all.

How did it form? Nearly a thousand years ago, the noble cleric named as Tain lived in a small, wealthy kingdom in a small border town. She was a healer and a commoner. For a while she lived a happy life, serving her god, having a family, and so on. She was peaceful, she was happy. Then came a dark day when the kingdom next to hers attacked. Her town was set on fire and her family died in the flames.

Saddened and mourning she made a pilgrimage to the holiest of all places, the Elysium Fields. How she got there is lost to even her followers, but when she arrived she pled day and night, for days on end, that the gods would end war and bring peace. Her request was denied. Or so she thought.

When she returned to the mortal world (which she did without difficult), she was different. She was the epitome both of human potential, and of holiness. She suddenly understood, as she saw devastation unending in the (still on going) war. She was the answer to her own prayers. She would bring peace.

On that day she swore that she would never raise a hand against another again. This was foolishness, it seemed, but her oath bound her. In time, she found others, followers, some followed her in pacifism. But some she taught to hold to the shadows and stop, by any means necessary, those who would stand against the cause of peace and life.

And finally, how the hell does "top brass" deal with so many plots at once, involving so many people at once, without their heads exploding on a regular basis? Their divinely chosen minions of the gods of goodness itself.

Yakk
2007-10-30, 03:43 PM
Ancient Silver Dragons.

Connected to: The Gold (who play the Celestial game) and the Brass (who play with Economies).

The Silver Dragons are trying to keep mankind from falling down the path of evil. They have been around (individually and collectively) long enough to see entire civilizations -- even entire races -- fall into the trap of evil and destruction.

They are ridiculously intelligent, ridiculously smart, and have ridiculous resources backing them.

The Gold dragons are semi-allied, but the Gold are mostly working on celestial and spiritual politics. Occasionally the Gold interfear with moral affairs.

The Brass are bankers for kingdoms, directly or indirectly. Most people (even their customers) don't know that their loans fall back on the Dragons. The Silver occasionally convince the Brass to change the economic situation for the Silver plans.

Not all plans work out.

The network is many layered and large. Adventurers are divined and recruited and sent on missions to keep yet another tomb of evil or book of horrors from being picked up by an evil necromancer in 20, 50, or 100 years.

Not everything works out, and the resources are strained. Greatness needs to be cultivated, and mortals recycle fast: so adventurers are sent on quests that are quite individually dangerous, but for which the signs and portents line up.

Xuincherguixe
2007-10-30, 06:56 PM
How I would handle this, is that there be some kind of central pillar to existence that's utterly horrible. Feel free to use your imagination, but as an example let's say that the earth's core is heated by an artifact. That is powered by chewing up people and consuming them. One could even go so far as to say that things could have been built different in a way that doesn't require human (or things close enough to human) sacrifice. Maybe the burn lives model was a bit cheaper. Maybe "the gods"(or whoever created things) hated having to make the planet. Maybe they just don't care. They could have gone in any number of directions but they happened to choose the one that means more suffering.

Whatever the situation, there is some terrible truth to existence. One that regular people can't handle. And it has to really be terrible, not just that the conspiracy is underestimating people. Maybe if a certain number of people find out what "the truth" is then reality comes crashing apart?

They would take it upon themselves to maintain existence, and keep the horrible truth covered up.

The players should have to work their way up before they learn things. A gun provided if they wish to kill themselves. Or by shooting the person that just gave them that gun, they unwittingly just gave the sacrifice needed to keep the Earth's core burning.

Riffington
2007-10-30, 07:28 PM
Of course, many would oppose this LAWFUL GOOD objective, nationalists, expansionists, people who make profit off war and conflict, demons and devils, and so on.

Not to mention, people who mistrust the concentration of so much power even in the best of hands... just like if Galadriel had got the One Ring, she'd do very Good Things with it and purge it of Sauron's taint... and then eventually she'd develop her own taint and do horrible things.

Riffington
2007-10-30, 07:31 PM
Like in the card game: the Illuminati should have rival factions. The characters can be part of a good faction of the Illuminati... not only are you trying to take over the world for its own good, you're trying to prevent others from taking it over. Of course, if that faction is the Discordians, then the Lawful characters will be the ones in trouble. And if it's Shangri-La... Eris help us.

Minor point: if you aren't willing to do something as minor as election scamming, you are the worst conspiracy ever. Rigged elections don't destroy democracy, so long as there's freedom of speech.

Crow T. Robot
2007-10-30, 09:04 PM
Minor point: if you aren't willing to do something as minor as election scamming, you are the worst conspiracy ever. Rigged elections don't destroy democracy, so long as there's freedom of speech.

In my supers/black ops game, The Company never rigged elections. They rigged primaries. As long as candidates possessed certain criteria. Namely aggressivly pursuit of Grays and super villains, protective of human and meta human rights, and unify humanity against the next invasion.

They don't interfere in the internal politics of most nations, because it is mostly irritating things that are benieth them. And such things are really irritating.

Leliel
2007-10-31, 12:28 PM
To the guy who needed clarification on the "Relationships outside the originization" quote: I mean, if you're trying to remain unknown, an SO or other "loved one" outside the conspiracy is going to...Complicate things.

Jorkens
2007-10-31, 01:02 PM
Like in the card game: the Illuminati should have rival factions. The characters can be part of a good faction of the Illuminati... not only are you trying to take over the world for its own good, you're trying to prevent others from taking it over.
Yes, it's like that in the book, too, sort of.

And that's one obvious approach. It explains how you get chaotic (good) characters onside too - they'd be fellow travellers who aren't affiliated to a specific organization (or maybe to a loose and anarchic one - cf Illuminatus! again) but are interested in stopping the Illuminati doing whatever bad thing they're planning to do.

Another interesting example of a neutral / good conspiracy might be the WASTE secret post service in The Crying of Lot 49. Simply have them doing something specific and generally good in a faintly lawful evil society where doing so is illegal. The Underground Railroad probably counts as another example.

A secret society who aren't trying to actually take over the world but are trying to get and maintain a fair bit of control of things so they can avert catastrophes and wars, help topple evil dictators, foil coups and so on if and when they need to would work as well.