Clarion-Bards. Song effects build up over time, condition ladder

[johnbragg]

Context: Heavily homebrewed system, roots in 3X E6, many 5E concepts backported, many spells reduced in level, all spells and cantrips are Exhausted (unavailable) for one minute after casting. (No spamming)

What I think I need: Song of healing needs lots of work.

Fluff: Clarion-bards create magic that effects all targets who can hear their music without straining. Clarion magic is powerful, but works more slowly than spells, building up cumulative effects.

Clarion-bards are most powerful as a force multiplier, more suited to mass combat than to dungeoneering or small-party tactics. Clarion-bards are not just jack-of-all-trade secondary caster / emergency warrior / backup rogues. (Clarion-bards might not make good PCs, because they are one- or two-trick ponies, even if it is a very good trick.)

Crunch: For a song to have magical effect (a Success), the performer must hit DC 25 on their perform check. Effects are cumulative, with each Song having a ladder of cumulative effects. (Hostile targets get a saving throw against each Success. Save DC is Charisma based). The level of the clarion-bard is the highest level that he or she can access. (If a lower level Clarion-Bard achieves more successes than he or she has levels, the clarion-bard can choose which effect to repeat.)

Targets of clarion-bard magic can use their standard action to attempt to move themselves or an ally back down the ladder. For yourself, use your action to roll a Will save, success moves you one step down the ladder. (You spend the round focusing your mind against the effects.) For an adjacent ally, use your action to make a Charisma check against the save DC. (Speech and gestures to raise ally’s morale). Otherwise, the effects fade 1 rank per minute after the target escapes the source of the music. (This only applies to persistent effects.)

The clarion-bard learns one Song at each level. The most common clarion-bard songs are Beguiling, Bravery, Fear, Sleep and Healing.

[johnbragg]

Song of Fear
1. DADV on all d20 rolls for 1 round.
2. Frightened for one round. Must flee from the source of the music, take no other actions.
3. Subtract d4 from all attacks, saving throws, ability checks (as 5e Bane spell)
4. Frightened for one minute. Target must flee, but can avoid other threats if still moving away
5. Panicked. Drop carried items and flee, only avoid other threats if they are near-certain death.

Song of Sleep (Lullaby)
1. Daze (3E condition, 1 round)
2. DAVD on Intelligence, Wisdom
3. DAVD on all attack rolls, ability checks, saving throws.
4. Deeper Daze (Dazed condition for 1 minute)
5. Sleep

Song of Beguiling (Pied Piper)
1. Beguiled. (1 round) Target cannot attack charmer, target has DADV on Will saves
2. Friendly. (1 round) Sheathe weapons, drop concentration, openly approach the caster
3. Dance. (1 round) Drop weapons, drop concentration, dance in place for one round
4. Dance and follow Piper for 1 minute. (½ movement)
5. Dance, follow Piper (½ movement) as long as he or she plays.

Song of Bravery
1. ADV vs fear, on morale checks
2. +d4 to all attacks, saves (5e Bless)
3. One extra attack (as Least Haste)
4. One extra attack (as Least Haste)
5. Resistant to Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing damage (5e Rage)

Song of Healing. Each DC 25 cures 1 hit point, or functions as a Lesser Restoration

[johnbragg]

Reserved for recording the outcome of discussion.

DC 25? DC 30? Maybe different DCs for different songs?

Bravery has a big advantage over Sleep, Beguiling, Fear because you just have to hit the Perform check, rather than hit the Perform check and then beat the target's Will save.

Song of Healing doesn't fit the escalating-conditions-clock AT ALL.

Are there any major Songs I'm missing? Song of Madness would be the next one, but maybe that's just a legendary, non-defined thing that's the equivalent of an Incantation?

Clarion-bards look to be bad PCs--the epitome of bad game balance, going from "useless in most situations" to "game-breakingly powerful" with very little sweet spot. Plus, boring to play because of their limited menu.

Oh, and I should pick a class to crib their miscellaneous stats from.

Added: I also have to do the math on how this works when you do it before battle--how long can you keep your allies under the effect.

Added: I'm willing to stipulate that if the enemy is willing to wear earplugs into battle, with the resulting disadvantages, the Clarion-Bard is much less effective offensively.

[noob]

Bravery and healing are the only two songs that looks useful because you can use them far before the fight.
The other songs are equivalent to Save or die effects which are not great when someone can probably just plug their ears or something in order to avoid.

[johnbragg]

Bravery and healing are the only two songs that looks useful because you can use them far before the fight.

Maximum of 5 minutes before. Although you can keep playing, so as long as you're hitting the DC at least once per minute, you're keeping your section of the army maxxed out.

But you're right about "far before the fight." A 5th level bard (max level) can keep his army Raging pretty much indefinitely.

Assuming a 3rd level Bard has a +15 total modifier, he can give his unit an extra attack every couple of rounds. If I leave the DC for Bravery (or all Songs) at 25 , the 3rd level Bard is giving his unit an extra attack every other round. DC 30, about one round in 4.

The 5th level Clarion-Bard does that, plus the unit is Raging (half-damage from weapons).


The other songs are equivalent to Save or die effects which are not great when someone can probably just plug their ears or something in order to avoid.

Well, that costs you your Action. Or the enemy has to spend spell slots and have Silence spells ready. Meanwhile, the Clarion-Bard's allies are presumably doing things.

[noob]

Maximum of 5 minutes before. Although you can keep playing, so as long as you're hitting the DC at least once per minute, you're keeping your section of the army maxxed out.

But you're right about "far before the fight." A 5th level bard (max level) can keep his army Raging pretty much indefinitely.

Assuming a 3rd level Bard has a +15 total modifier, he can give his unit an extra attack every couple of rounds. If I leave the DC for Bravery (or all Songs) at 25 , the 3rd level Bard is giving his unit an extra attack every other round. DC 30, about one round in 4.

The 5th level Clarion-Bard does that, plus the unit is Raging (half-damage from weapons).



Well, that costs you your Action. Or the enemy has to spend spell slots and have Silence spells ready. Meanwhile, the Clarion-Bard's allies are presumably doing things.

Does not cost an action beyond the first fight with a given faction because afterwards they know you have a clarion an they wear earplugs before the fights.

[johnbragg]

Does not cost an action beyond the first fight with a given faction because afterwards they know you have a clarion an they wear earplugs before the fights.

Well, if you don't plan to issue any orders during the battle to your own troops, or use your own clarion-bard, etc etc that might work. (Worked for Odysseus' crew against the Sirens.)

[noob]

Well, if you don't plan to issue any orders during the battle to your own troops, or use your own clarion-bard, etc etc that might work. (Worked for Odysseus' crew against the Sirens.)

Wait you do not have npcs use sword language and game master telepathy?

[johnbragg]

Wait you do not have npcs use sword language and game master telepathy?

Of course, but sword language is only line of sight and costs a move action, and the material of the earplug wax blocks telepathy. :smallsmile:

[noob]

Of course, but sword language is only line of sight and costs a move action, and the material of the earplug wax blocks telepathy.
Makes sense.

[johnbragg]

More thoughts on clarion-bards in the campaign world.

Ancient Lore of the Elven Neolithic'
The first clarion-bards were elves, masters of the Elven Neolithic, before true day and night, before the first dwarven tunnel reached the surface, before the invention of writing and spell formulae. Elven hunter-gatherer packs ranged across the land, with tools and weapons of flint sharpened, flame-hardened and sung into elfshot, as sharp as steel but not as durable. Humans and smallfolk in the primeval fey forest would hear the distant Song and cower in their ringforts, or if caught in the open, would be carried away, prisoners or enchanted minions of the elves of the Wild Hunt. At wild elven banquets--as guests, as entertainment as they danced clumsily (by elven standards), as a meat course--accounts vary and sages squabble.

When the resolutely magic-resistant dwarves broke through to the surface with true metal armors and weapons, the elfsong had little effect on them and the power of the Wild Hunt was broken. The receding of the fey-chaotic elven worldview in favor of the coldly logical and systematic dwarves allowed day and night and seasons to spread across the surface. The smallfolk, given to husbandry of plants and animals, flourished in the less oppressive environment.

For generals in the campaign today:
A first-level Bard is, if nothing else, a bluff. A DC 18 check sounds the same from a 1st level bard as from a 3rd level bard.

A third-level Bard is a sizable but not decisive advantage in a battle.

A fifth-level Bard is rarely found on the losing side of a battle.

[noob]

More thoughts on clarion-bards in the campaign world.

Ancient Lore of the Elven Neolithic'
The first clarion-bards were elves, masters of the Elven Neolithic, before true day and night, before the first dwarven tunnel reached the surface, before the invention of writing and spell formulae. Elven hunter-gatherer packs ranged across the land, with tools and weapons of flint sharpened, flame-hardened and sung into elfshot, as sharp as steel but not as durable. Humans and smallfolk in the primeval fey forest would hear the distant Song and cower in their ringforts, or if caught in the open, would be carried away, prisoners or enchanted minions of the elves of the Wild Hunt. At wild elven banquets--as guests, as entertainment as they danced clumsily (by elven standards), as a meat course--accounts vary and sages squabble.

When the resolutely magic-resistant dwarves broke through to the surface with true metal armors and weapons, the elfsong had little effect on them and the power of the Wild Hunt was broken. The receding of the fey-chaotic elven worldview in favor of the coldly logical and systematic dwarves allowed day and night and seasons to spread across the surface. The smallfolk, given to husbandry of plants and animals, flourished in the less oppressive environment.

For generals in the campaign today:
A first-level Bard is, if nothing else, a bluff. A DC 18 check sounds the same from a 1st level bard as from a 3rd level bard.

A third-level Bard is a sizable but not decisive advantage in a battle.

A fifth-level Bard is rarely found on the losing side of a battle.
A first level bard is a counter to higher level bards in battle because it is sufficient to prevent all the opponents from using their own bards during battle (their effect from singing before the battle will work however).
Just use the song of lullaby and each round it dazes for one round on a failed save(The higher rank effects are actually weaker so being a higher level bard makes your song of lullaby incredibly weaker) so the opponents will just plug in their ears because the bonuses they get is not worth the risk of being dazed randomly.
In fact a level 1 bard is enough to slow all communication on the opponent side unless they are willing to take the risk of being dazed.
The more level 1 bards there is the more it is worth it to just give up on communicating with voice and instead use things like pointing with swords and so on.

Basically the most powerful level as a tactical advantage is the first level.

[johnbragg]

A first level bard is a counter to higher level bards in battle because it is sufficient to prevent all the opponents from using their own bards during battle (their effect from singing before the battle will work however).
Just use the song of lullaby and each round it dazes for one round on a failed save(The higher rank effects are actually weaker so being a higher level bard makes your song of lullaby incredibly weaker) so the opponents will just plug in their ears because the bonuses they get is not worth the risk of being dazed randomly.
In fact a level 1 bard is enough to slow all communication on the opponent side unless they are willing to take the risk of being dazed.
The more level 1 bards there is the more it is worth it to just give up on communicating with voice and instead use things like pointing with swords and so on.

Basically the most powerful level as a tactical advantage is the first level.

???? Not every round. That first level bard isn't hitting DC 25 every round, much less DC 30

[noob]

???? Not every round. That first level bard isn't hitting DC 25 every round, much less DC 30

you are not optimising perform hard enough.

[johnbragg]

you are not optimising perform hard enough.

Mook npc Clarion- Bard is working with +2 Cha, 4 ranks, +2 racial, +3 Skill Focus.
That's +11, so they're hitting DC 25 about 1 round in 3, and hitting DC 30 one round out of 10.

[johnbragg]

Something that needs reworking: It's dumb to have Sleep and Healing be long-range effects. That doesn't really match the fiction or the style. Drums of war and bagpipes and creepy hypnotizing flute music, yes. Lullabies and magic-Enya, no.

So I need to make a distinction between long-range songs and short-range. And figure out how exactly the Song of Sleep ever works, in that case.

[johnbragg]

A first level bard is a counter to higher level bards in battle because it is sufficient to prevent all the opponents from using their own bards during battle (their effect from singing before the battle will work however).
Just use the song of lullaby and each round it dazes for one round on a failed save(The higher rank effects are actually weaker so being a higher level bard makes your song of lullaby incredibly weaker) so the opponents will just plug in their ears because the bonuses they get is not worth the risk of being dazed randomly.
In fact a level 1 bard is enough to slow all communication on the opponent side unless they are willing to take the risk of being dazed.
The more level 1 bards there is the more it is worth it to just give up on communicating with voice and instead use things like pointing with swords and so on.

Basically the most powerful level as a tactical advantage is the first level.

You're completely right--I needed someone else (you) to look at this to see the tactical effects of Song of Sleep.

(Cartoon picture of bard shouting Lullaby lyrics into bullhorn)

Lullaby is a classic bard ability. But it makes no sense (fictionally or tactically) to have a line-of-sight, or more accurately sound-of-voice, Sleep (or Healing) ability.

So Song of Sleep and Song of Healing have to be range-capped. Classic use would be hide and sing. So 3X close range (25-35') is a little bit too restrictive, Medium (100') seems like a lot. 5E midrange is 60', which eyeballs about right.

[LibraryOgre]

(Cartoon picture of bard shouting Lullaby lyrics into bullhorn)


Amateur. A real bard would use a bagpipe, and have them falling asleep three hills over. :smallbiggrin:

[D&D_Fan]

Bagpipe bards are evil. If I ever played a bagpipe bard they would be a cruel villain

[johnbragg]

Bagpipe bards are evil. If I ever played a bagpipe bard they would be a cruel villain

Bagpipe bards are a big inspiration for this project. Bagpipe music means you are about to be set upon by bearded, desperate lunatics with claymores, kilts and no underwear. (At least in the fiction.) That's unsettling. In a less Cartesian universe, where mind and matter interact more, that feeling of dread translates into crunch effects.

[D&D_Fan]

Ah. I see.
Striking fear into the hearts of your enemies

[johnbragg]

Something that I realized might belong here. It's not musical (except maybe for eerie theremin sound effects), but it's all about "effect slowly builds up from minor irritant to serious situation." It's also a single-target effect, rather than a mass-effect, but the condition ladder means it might be a Clarion-Bard ability rather than a spell chain.

Mesmerism. Range: line of sight, maximum 30'
1. Mesmeric Attack. DADV on Int, Wis for 1 round.
2. Mesmeric Trance. Target is Dazed for as long as the Mesmerist uses their standard action to maintain the trance. Any damage to the target breaks the trance.
3. Mesmeric Command. Mesmerist can use their move action to control the target as a puppet. Target's movement rate is halved, make all rolls at Disadvantage. Some trivial actions (open the unlocked door) that would normally not require a roll will require a DC 5 roll.
4. Mesmeric Suggestion. Mesmerist sets a Trigger and an Action. When the target encounters the Trigger, the target must attempt to perform the Action.
5. Mesmeric Connection. After the trance is ended, the connection remains. You can attempt to mesmerize the target without being within range, with the same ladder of conditions. Ending this effect requires a Dispel MAgic or Remove Curse