Magic Jar - how does it work out?

[Gruftzwerg]

I'm working on an anime character adaptation for fun atm. and want to make use of the Magic Jar trick to switch bodies permanently. The trick itself (casting it twice, than drag your original body out of reach and destroy the first magic jar) is easy to gasp, but the outcome is barely described (be it by the rules or the threads I've found so far..).

So I'm stuck into a new body and get its physical ability scores, its hp and so on, while maintaining my mental skills.

1. It seems that the "type (and subtype)" doesn't change at all...
2a. ... but your racials seem to be effected by the "loose physical retrain mental abilities/modifiers" filter
2b. e.g.: would a human still have his bonus feats & skills, since they are mental abilities ?
3a. what happens if your original character has templates? I assume that they go with you? (e.g "a tainted one" yuan-ti)
3b. what happens if the targeted new body has templates?
4. ECL seems untouched too since neither your race nor your type have changed at all.. (but, the spell never expects you to be stuck into the new body..)

most of the questions (besides ECL) are even relevant for a regular cast of Magic Jar but doesn't seem to be addressed anywhere. I hope you can help me out here. I want to stick to RAW as much as possible since this will be a villain optimization build I wanna showchase here.

Thx in advance.

[Toliudar]

I'm not going to argue the validity of the double-switch technique, cause you're gonna roll with it regardless of what I say.


1. It seems that the "type (and subtype)" doesn't change at all...
2a. ... but your racials seem to be effected by the "loose physical retrain mental abilities/modifiers" filter
2b. e.g.: would a human still have his bonus feats & skills, since they are mental abilities ?
3a. what happens if your original character has templates? I assume that they go with you? (e.g "a tainted one" yuan-ti)
3b. what happens if the targeted new body has templates?
4. ECL seems untouched too since neither your race nor your type have changed at all.. (but, the spell never expects you to be stuck into the new body..)

most of the questions (besides ECL) are even relevant for a regular cast of Magic Jar but doesn't seem to be addressed anywhere. I hope you can help me out here. I want to stick to RAW as much as possible since this will be a villain optimization build I wanna showchase here.

Thx in advance.

1. The spell doesn't address type at all. I'd ground Type in the body rather than the mind, but that's opinion.
2a. The physical stats are what the original host had, not affected by additional modifiers for race/type. The mental stats are what you originally had, not affected by additional modifiers for race.
2b. Based on the precedent of human Dragonborn, I would say yes.
3a. I would suggest that templates do not travel with the mind, but with the body.
3b. See above.
4. Since the spell isn't supposed to be permanent, ECL wouldn't normally be affected.

[GrayDeath]

It doesnt. its a Jar, it sits around all day.

[Gruftzwerg]

I'm not going to argue the validity of the double-switch technique, cause you're gonna roll with it regardless of what I say.



1. The spell doesn't address type at all. I'd ground Type in the body rather than the mind, but that's opinion.
2a. The physical stats are what the original host had, not affected by additional modifiers for race/type. The mental stats are what you originally had, not affected by additional modifiers for race.
2b. Based on the precedent of human Dragonborn, I would say yes.
3a. I would suggest that templates do not travel with the mind, but with the body.
3b. See above.
4. Since the spell isn't supposed to be permanent, ECL wouldn't normally be affected.

Yeah I know the double Magic Jar trick is in an grey area by RAW. I am also considering "True Mind Switch" but the Jar would fit the fluff more. But I will see where i will get..^^

1. I assumed that since some of your racial traits/abilities stay, it would be out of question that your entire type/subtype would change.
2a+b. k, I hoped so^^
3. Maybe the template(s) abilities should also be split into mental and physical abilities?
4. yeah..^^

[Quertus]

3. Maybe the template(s) abilities should also be split into mental and physical abilities?

Maybe. Or maybe even "you must have both" - some may be inactive for both halves after a mind switch.

[St Fan]

There is no "grey area by RAW" at all. A spell doesn't stack with itself. You cannot cast the spell a second time if you're already under the effect of a magic jar (more specifically, you can try to cast it, but it won't have any effect).

[Gruftzwerg]

There is no "grey area by RAW" at all. A spell doesn't stack with itself. You cannot cast the spell a second time if you're already under the effect of a magic jar (more specifically, you can try to cast it, but it won't have any effect).

Sorry but this ain't stacking here.

The effect is cast on the crystal/gem/Magic Jar "Focus" (which than allows you to switch bodies). Why shouldn't you be able to cast and create a 2nd "crystal/gem/Magic Jar" (with a 2nd Focus)? The spell doesn't have a special rule like others have where you are limited to a single active instance of the spell. Since the main effect of the spell (the Magic Jar) isn't on you and you can use 2 separate focuses, you ain't stacking anything.

The 2nd MJ just does it job as fine as the first one: giving you the option the enter it and than switch with a nearby body.

Compare it with casting 2 times darkness near to each other with overlapping squares. The first cast of darkness doesn't stop you from casting a 2nd one (with overlapping areas). Both spell instances work perfectly fine (even at the overlapping point). And destroying/dispelling one of em, doesn't effect the other.

I don't see any reason why you shouldn't have 2 instances of MJ up at the same time.

[Xar Zarath]

There was a spell in 2nd ed. from the complete book of necromancers, called life force exchange. Kinda like Magic Jar but removed the need for the jar. One failed save throw and poof, you and the target permanently switched bodies. Fluff for the spell was that old necromancers could have young adventurer bodies this way.

[Gruftzwerg]

There was a spell in 2nd ed. from the complete book of necromancers, called life force exchange. Kinda like Magic Jar but removed the need for the jar. One failed save throw and poof, you and the target permanently switched bodies. Fluff for the spell was that old necromancers could have young adventurer bodies this way.

2nd ed. doesn't help me out here sadly.

I've been looking at some alternatives too, like True Mind Switch, but I would like to have a regular spellcasting option and avoid psionics if possible.

And my only bet so far is the double Magic Jar trick which is a poorly written spell with a questionable combo...^^