Can "a tainted one" Yuan-Ti use their Poison to make more "tainted ones"?

[Gruftzwerg]

I'm working on a anime adaption for a villain build and got interested in the Yuan-Ti Pureblood "tainted one" template.

The Pureblood "Tainted One" template is acquired by drinking distilled Yuan-Ti blood venom with some herbs mixed.

My question is, since the "Pureblood Tainted One" template also gives you a poison ability can they also use it to mix it with herbs?
At least I can't find any indicator that only abominations may do it.

edit: sry, twisted the name for the template with one of the races.. -.-
edit 2: its venom mixed with herbs not blood.
sry it's late and I seem half asleep here..^^

[Batcathat]

I'm not very familiar with the template in question so I might be missing something but why would you assume that poison would work for something in place of blood?

[hamishspence]

Yuan-ti Pureblood isn't a template - it has Racial Hit Dice. I believe you're thinking of Tainted One. Those are indeed a template in 3.5 (using the rules in Serpent Kingdoms) created by feeding humans an elixir that includes distilled yuan-ti venom - and gain poisonous saliva - but I'm not sure if they qualify as yuan-ti themselves.

[Gruftzwerg]

I'm sorry I mixed the name from the race with the template... I meant the "tainted one" template.

I hope that should clarify the situation.

[hamishspence]

It does.
It may depend on the DM. They do have the ability to polymorph into a snake, and count as "Serpentfolk" for the purposes of rangers who take it as a favoured enemy. And the template is sometimes called "Yuan-ti tainted one" rather than just "Tainted one".


So I could see some DMs allowing tainted ones to distill their own saliva to make the elixir.


EDIT: I've just finished looking it up - Savage Species, in the Yuan-ti Cultist section, specifically says the venom needs to be of a halfblood or pureblood.

So not abominations or Tainted Ones or other variants.

[Gruftzwerg]

It does.
It may depend on the DM. They do have the ability to polymorph into a snake, and count as "Serpentfolk" for the purposes of rangers who take it as a favoured enemy. And the template is sometimes called "Yuan-ti tainted one" rather than just "Tainted one".


So I could see some DMs allowing tainted ones to distill their own saliva to make the elixir.


EDIT: I've just finished looking it up - Savage Species, in the Yuan-ti Cultist section, specifically says the venom needs to be of a halfblood or pureblood.

So not abominations or Tainted Ones or other variants.

Thx for pointing me to the right spot =)

Well, that means I have to tailor a workaround somehow, but yeah, it is how it is.

[ShurikVch]

Yuan-Ti Anathema (Fiend Folio):

In addition, anathemas can create the mixture of venom, roots, and herbs required to create either a tainted one or a broodguard (described in Savage Species and Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerûn).

[Gruftzwerg]

EDIT: I've just finished looking it up - Savage Species, in the Yuan-ti Cultist section, specifically says the venom needs to be of a halfblood or pureblood.

So not abominations or Tainted Ones or other variants.

While still working on the build I had a flash of thought.

The template gives the ability to turn "into snake or snakelike forms ".
Snakelike ain't a defined term/keyword in 3.5 and thus allows anything that resembles a snake (especially if the text or regular lexicon definition calls snakelike features out).

Which lead to the fact that "Yuan-Ti Tainted One" can polymorph into a halfblood or pureblood as needed (assuming character lvl is high enough for the HD check of polymorph). Since polymorph gives us Special Attacks, we get access to the poison/venom abilities.
I guess that this should work^^

edit: added the HD check of polymorph

[afroakuma]

Which lead to the fact that "Yuan-Ti Tainted One" can polymorph into a halfblood or pureblood as needed (assuming character lvl is high enough for the HD check of polymorph). Since polymorph gives us Special Attacks, we get access to the poison/venom abilities.

From a purely flavor standpoint, this feels unsupportable; yuan-ti consider tainted ones to be inferiors. Taking the form of a true yuan-ti would be blasphemous. Races of Faerûn also suggests it's not an intended form (limiting them to vipers only), but I know you're going to pick the version that best backs your intent, whatever that may be.

On a mechanical side, I would strongly advocate not using the rules for the tainted one mixture, since they are, uh, brutally stupid. I can't think of anything else in the game that constitutes a save-and-die.

Anyhoo, my two cents on that one.

[Gruftzwerg]

From a purely flavor standpoint, this feels unsupportable; yuan-ti consider tainted ones to be inferiors. Taking the form of a true yuan-ti would be blasphemous. Races of Faerûn also suggests it's not an intended form (limiting them to vipers only), but I know you're going to pick the version that best backs your intent, whatever that may be.

On a mechanical side, I would strongly advocate not using the rules for the tainted one mixture, since they are, uh, brutally stupid. I can't think of anything else in the game that constitutes a save-and-die.

Anyhoo, my two cents on that one.

While I can understand you concerns from a flavor point of view, this is for theoretical optimization and thus I will rely on RAW.
From RAW perspective, Races of Fearûn was published in March 2003, which makes Ghostwalk (which was published June 2003) the more/most recent publication of the ability/template. Races of Fearûn doesn't have primacy for our Yuan-Ti topic in any way and thus gets trumped by the newer publication. Both have received 3.5 updated (with no alteration to the template..). That leaves Ghostwalks tainted one rules as the relevant ones.
Yeah I know it is a close call and it is shady as well, but it is imho still RAW for the purpose of theoretical optimization.

on the mechanical side:
The rules for the mixture are as you said brutal. But imho they are more balanced as one may think.
First, it lacks any combat properties. It can only be applied if the victim is willingly or if you have already overpower your victim (which means, you could have already killed it. So a kill on a save is no biggi in this scenario) and can apply it forcefully.
Second, it's not a poison/venom anymore. This excludes its use as poison (e.g. with weapons or other poison devices/abilities).
I don't see any way where this mixture could be abused offensively in combat. Even roleplay wise I would see problems. Since it's a deadly mixture, I don't assume that it smells well, so it can't be easily hidden in food imho (further, RAW didn't give this option in the first place).
Its sole purpose is to produce more yuan-ti slaves. And slaves that produce more slaves ain't something new/special. Cruel as it is, but it is "common" practice in real life (history and maybe even now.. -.-).
It looks like an overpowered combat tool, but it ain't the chase imho.

edit:
rechecked the 3.5 conversions and found this in for Ghostwalk..^^


Special Qualities: Add “Alternate Form (Sp): A tainted one can assume the form of a Tiny to Large viper (see the Snake entry, Monster Manual page 280) as a psionic ability. This ability is similar to a polymorph spell (caster level 7th), except that a tainted one does not regain any hit points for changing form, and it can assume only viper forms.

K, i gave up on this one..
At least partially, maybe I'll get another way to turn my tainted one into a halfblood/pureblood^^.