Break down of the three artificers

[daremetoidareyo]

Can someone Twilight the differences between the three artificer options, there's so much going on with each that it's hard to follow

[Mjolnirbear]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583037-For-Science!-A-Guide-to-the-Revisited-Artificer

[Greywander]

Alchemist is your support/healer.
Artillerist is your ranged/blaster.
Battle Smith is your melee/tank.

To go a bit more in depth:

The Alchemist gets some healing spells on their list that other artificers don't get. Their elixirs also provide some extra support/utility.

The Artillerist specializes in casting blasting spells, and even learn the infamous Fireball. They get a cannon pet that can take a couple of different forms that provide additional offense or defense.

The Battle Smith is a weapon-user rather than a spellcaster. They're sort of like a pseudo-paladin. They get to use INT for their weapon attacks (requires a magic weapon), have a smite-analog, and get a tough pet.

[MaxWilson]

Alchemist is your support/healer.
Artillerist is your ranged/blaster.
Battle Smith is your melee/tank.

To go a bit more in depth:

The Alchemist gets some healing spells on their list that other artificers don't get. Their elixirs also provide some extra support/utility.

The Artillerist specializes in casting blasting spells, and even learn the infamous Fireball. They get a cannon pet that can take a couple of different forms that provide additional offense or defense.

The Battle Smith is a weapon-user rather than a spellcaster. They're sort of like a pseudo-paladin. They get to use INT for their weapon attacks (requires a magic weapon), have a smite-analog, and get a tough pet.

Artillerist is a significantly better support/healer than Alchemist. Starting from 3rd level, the Protector turret is 1d8+INT mod free temp HP to everyone in a 10' radius, on a bonus action. Used before combat that is 11ish temp HP to everyone in the party, and all of their allies/hirelings/summoned minions, and then during combat it's another ~7 HP to anyone who was damaged recently. That goes great with stuff like high AC or resistance from Rage, and is massively better support than what the Alchemist has to offer prior to 15th level.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah, that artillerist protector, if it is not attacked/destroyed during the battle, is nutso good for preventing damage to the party in a close fight.

The force damage cross bow thing, by the way, given how long it lasts, does more damage than a whole host of first level spells if you use it in two battles, and it can shoot every round as a bonus action. Nice for shooting flying enemies, the party found. (I am the DM in that one, and until I saw it used in a couple of combats I didn't appreciate how much bang fo the buck that first level spell slot offered to the artificer).

[Dork_Forge]

Artillerist is a significantly better support/healer than Alchemist. Starting from 3rd level, the Protector turret is 1d8+INT mod free temp HP to everyone in a 10' radius, on a bonus action. Used before combat that is 11ish temp HP to everyone in the party, and all of their allies/hirelings/summoned minions, and then during combat it's another ~7 HP to anyone who was damaged recently. That goes great with stuff like high AC or resistance from Rage, and is massively better support than what the Alchemist has to offer prior to 15th level.

The Artillerist can be a better Support with temp hp, in terms of actual healing (temp hp is damage mitigation, whilst I can certainly understand why it can be lumped in with healing, it simply isn't the same thing) the Alchemist is by far the best, followed by the Battle Smith. The Alchemist is the best healer Artificer as they are the only ones that get a bonus to healing spells (along with free casting of lesser/greater restoration) and access to other spells (like Healing Word).

[MaxWilson]

The Artillerist can be a better Support with temp hp, in terms of actual healing (temp hp is damage mitigation, whilst I can certainly understand why it can be lumped in with healing, it simply isn't the same thing) the Alchemist is by far the best, followed by the Battle Smith. The Alchemist is the best healer Artificer as they are the only ones that get a bonus to healing spells (along with free casting of lesser/greater restoration) and access to other spells (like Healing Word).

Post level 9, Battlesmith w/ Aura of Vitality is much better at actual healing than the Alchemist, almost on par with a paladin, although neither is as good as a Lore Bard (who can get Aura of Vitality but sooner and with more spell slots).

Alchemist's crummy +INT bonus to healing spells isn't enough to bring it anywhere close to the healing power of Aura of Vitality.

[Contrast]

Yeah, that artillerist protector, if it is not attacked/destroyed during the battle, is nutso good for preventing damage to the party in a close fight.

Honestly its probably good if the enemy decides they want to attack/destroy it. It has AC18, a reasonable number of HP and benefits from its own THP bonanza so its going to take several hits to down usually (and can be topped up for free with Mending between battles if it takes some hits but doesn't go down).

Any actions the enemy spends trying to kill it are actions they aren't spending attacking you, which is already pretty good control for a 1st level spell slot and then it has insane THP regen on top of that.

[Dork_Forge]

Post level 9, Battlesmith w/ Aura of Vitality is much better at actual healing than the Alchemist, almost on par with a paladin, although neither is as good as a Lore Bard (who can get Aura of Vitality but sooner and with more spell slots).

Alchemist's crummy +INT bonus to healing spells isn't enough to bring it anywhere close to the healing power of Aura of Vitality.

Aura of Vitality is a great out of combat healing spell, but actually in combat it isn't great on a Battle Smith:

-It clashes with their core subclass feature (controlling the Steel Defender)

-It's a 3rd level spell that'll let them heal one person at a time for an average of 7hp a turn, at that point (assuming both max Int with their ASIs) the Alchemist is healing 12.5hp, also with a bonus action but only needing a first level slot. Alternatively they can use Mass Healing Word with a 3rd level slot (personally I'd only roll the dice once so the Alchemical Savant would apply, I'm not really clear on the actual RAW concerning this and healing though). If it does apply then assuming a party of 4 and max Int: Mass Healing Word 50 hp in a single bonus action vs Aura of Vitality 70hp but requiring a full minute and your concentration. Typically a Battle Smith would be a more invovled combatant (more actively doing damage/in melee) so are more likely to have to make those concentration checks.

In terms of general healing the Artifcer gets a great ability (Arcane Jolt) for action economy free healing and Aura of Vitality can be great for between combat healings, but the Alchemist gets more healing spells, free uses of certain spells (by the time they've hit 15th they get once a day free castings of lesser restoration, greater restoration and heal), a flat bonus to their healing and Elixirs (not great by any stretch of the imagination, the healing one should stack but if it happens to be the random one of the day then that's more healing).

I also don't really agree that the Battle Smith comes close to a Paladin's healing, Lay on Hands is a huge amount of daily healing, by the time Arcane Jolt comes online it gives an average of 35hp a day whilst the Lay on Hands pool is at 45 and is a fixed number not the swinginess of dice.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Battle Smith and have played one multiple times as a combat medic, I just think that based on class features the Alchemist is a superior healer.

[Greywander]

The poor Alchemist does seem to have been nerfed a bit harder than the other subclasses since UA. I kind of wish the Alchemist had more things related crafting, explosives, or actually transmuting materials into other materials. Alchemy is more than just potions.

But yes, the artificer is a support class, so all subclasses are going to be good at support to varying degrees. Each subclass adds additional ways to provide support, I just think the Alchemist leans into that role the most. Whether or not it actually does better support than the other two is a different question.

[Tvtyrant]

Don't forget you can stick the turret on an ally, so Reckless Barbarian can carry the temp HP turret to basically get damage reduction. I'm not sure what the exact damage difference between the turret shooting or the Barbarian getting advantage all the time is, but it has to be pretty close.

[Wizard_Lizard]

It was a real shame that when I wanted to play alchemist, I couldn't get massive explosions.

[WadeWay33]

I know this wasn’t part of the question, but Armorer is a solid tank, and does it better than the Battlesmith at most levels.

[MaxWilson]

I also don't really agree that the Battle Smith comes close to a Paladin's healing, Lay on Hands is a huge amount of daily healing, by the time Arcane Jolt comes online it gives an average of 35hp a day whilst the Lay on Hands pool is at 45 and is a fixed number not the swinginess of dice.

At level 9, Paladin has 2x Aura of Vitality (140 HP) + Lay on Hands (45 HP, plus curing diseases/poisons.) plus miscellaneous first and second level spell slots that I'll assume go to other things like Find Steed and Wrathful Smite. Thus, 185 HP plus the ability to cure disease/poison.

At level 9, Battlesmith has 2x Aura of Vitality (140 HP) + Arcane Jolt (~21 to 35 HP depending on Int) plus miscellaneous first and second level spell slots that I'll assume go to other things like Shield, Warding Bond, and keeping your Steel Defender up and running. Thus, 161 to 175 HP.

In HP terms, they're pretty close (and they get closer as more 3rd-4th level spell slots come online and Improved Defender kicks in), but the paladin is better at healing status effects especially once Cleansing Touch comes online.

Both of them are worse than a Lore Bard and better than an Alchemist.

The Alchemist's fundamental problem is that getting +INT to healing spells, once per spell, doesn't mean much on a half-caster who's only getting ~10 spells per day anyway. The Alchemist's best case is Mass Healing Word with a DM who rules that Alchemical Savant boosts healing to all six creatures, but even then Mass Healing Word's healing is poorly distributed. When you come out of a nasty fight with a Fire Giant or a group of Banshees (say one guy took a Fire Giant crit for 50 HP of damage, and others took 20 and 30 HP apiece), an alchemist might take couple of Mass Healing Words plus a few Cure Wounds on top to heal most of the damage, whereas a single Aura of Vitality will put the party back in fighting shape.


I know this wasn’t part of the question, but Armorer is a solid tank, and does it better than the Battlesmith at most levels.

Before someone asks "what book is the Alchemist in?" let me hasten to add that the Armor is from WotC's unpublished playtest material. If you think you can talk your DM into using it anyway, here it is: https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/UA2020-Subclasses03_0224.pdf

[Greywander]

I think one of the differences is that the Alchemist is the better combat healer. Mass Healing Word can get several party members back on their feet if more than one go down. Aura of Vitality requires concentration and has a shorter range than Healing Word/Mass Healing Word. Aura of Vitality is great for out of combat healing, but the combo of Healing Word and Mass Healing Word make the alchemist the better combat medic. It's not about how many HP you heal, but simply getting people up from 0. It takes a big heal like, well, Heal in order to make the actual HP restored matter (i.e. last more than one hit).

The Alchemist also gets Death Ward and Raise Dead. They're a decent cleric alternative if you're in a tight spot.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Also I feel alchemist probably synergizes well with wizard multiclass for healing spells? Never tried it out but might work.

[MaxWilson]

I think one of the differences is that the Alchemist is the better combat healer. Mass Healing Word can get several party members back on their feet if more than one go down. Aura of Vitality requires concentration and has a shorter range than Healing Word/Mass Healing Word. Aura of Vitality is great for out of combat healing, but the combo of Healing Word and Mass Healing Word make the alchemist the better combat medic. It's not about how many HP you heal, but simply getting people up from 0. It takes a big heal like, well, Heal in order to make the actual HP restored matter (i.e. last more than one hit).

The Alchemist also gets Death Ward and Raise Dead. They're a decent cleric alternative if you're in a tight spot.

I'm curious what sort of game you're playing where PCs go to 0 HP, but you're not interested in healing them back up from 0 HP to full HP afterwards. Is it one big fight per day and that's it?

[Tvtyrant]

Also I feel alchemist probably synergizes well with wizard multiclass for healing spells? Never tried it out but might work.

You could certainly optimize for number of elixers. Are they better then first level spells in the long run?

[Greywander]

I'm curious what sort of game you're playing where PCs go to 0 HP, but you're not interested in healing them back up from 0 HP to full HP afterwards. Is it one big fight per day and that's it?
Damage mitigation is usually much more resource efficient than healing is, unless you have a Life cleric in the party. If the party is running low on HP, usually you look for a place to short or long rest, and the healing magic only comes out if that isn't an option. Even then, you need to save some spell slots for the next encounter, so you only heal just enough to get them to the next rest. Aura of Vitality is an exception, being much more efficient for out-of-combat healing.

Point is, in-combat healing and out-of-combat healing aren't the same. The Alchemist is better at one, the Battle Smith at the other. Which is kind of weird; I get that the Battle Smith is kind of modeled after the paladin, I just don't understand why they would be any more healing-oriented than the base artificer. I guess a good party heal is itself a type of tanking.

[Dork_Forge]

At level 9, Paladin has 2x Aura of Vitality (140 HP) + Lay on Hands (45 HP, plus curing diseases/poisons.) plus miscellaneous first and second level spell slots that I'll assume go to other things like Find Steed and Wrathful Smite. Thus, 185 HP plus the ability to cure disease/poison.

At level 9, Battlesmith has 2x Aura of Vitality (140 HP) + Arcane Jolt (~21 to 35 HP depending on Int) plus miscellaneous first and second level spell slots that I'll assume go to other things like Shield, Warding Bond, and keeping your Steel Defender up and running. Thus, 161 to 175 HP.

In HP terms, they're pretty close (and they get closer as more 3rd-4th level spell slots come online and Improved Defender kicks in), but the paladin is better at healing status effects especially once Cleansing Touch comes online.

That's a gap of 10-24hp at the point of comparison, that widens 5hp for every level up to 15 where Improved Defender pulls it back for the Battle Smith. Before 9th level a Paladin is easily ahead as they have a dedicated healing pool on top of the same spells the Battle Smith is getting (in terms of raw hp regen) and they only keep up if they commit their Arcane Jolt pool entirely to healing instead of additional damage.


Both of them are worse than a Lore Bard and better than an Alchemist.

Worse than a Lore Bard yeah, I still hold that an Alchemist is a better healer than a Battle Smith.



The Alchemist's fundamental problem is that getting +INT to healing spells, once per spell, doesn't mean much on a half-caster who's only getting ~10 spells per day anyway. The Alchemist's best case is Mass Healing Word with a DM who rules that Alchemical Savant boosts healing to all six creatures, but even then Mass Healing Word's healing is poorly distributed. When you come out of a nasty fight with a Fire Giant or a group of Banshees (say one guy took a Fire Giant crit for 50 HP of damage, and others took 20 and 30 HP apiece), an alchemist might take couple of Mass Healing Words plus a few Cure Wounds on top to heal most of the damage, whereas a single Aura of Vitality will put the party back in fighting shape.


Alchemical Savant with a maxed out Int makes casting Healing Word with a 1st level slot heal like it's using a 3rd level slot and makes Cure Wounds at 1st slightly better than Cure Wounds at 2nd. They get less spells than a full caster but the +INT bump stretches how much they get out of their spells and they get free castings of spells that would eat the slots of the Paladin and Battle Smith whilst also getting a free casting of Heal, which none of them even get a slot high enough to cast normally. Couple this with the temp hp rider on their elixirs (temp hp is damage mitigation, but they can tack it onto healing> 10hp and 12thp on average per healing elixir (I still think it should have scaled though)) and that since their role is clearly more orientated as support/healer they are outpacing the Battle Smith.

The only real healing spell the Battle Smith gets until 9th (hp regeneration) is Cure Wounds, which they get no bonus for, takes their action and costs their slots which as you've already listed, they have plenty of uses for. So before 9th level it's not really a competition at all, and that's most of the commonly played levels.

At 9th level (let's assume they primarily rely on Alchemical Savant buffed cantrips for damage, and burn a 1st and 2nd slot on control or utility spells to be conservative and are using Healing Word over Cure Wounds to maintain damage output and ranged healing):

-Healing Word (3 at 1st, 2 at 2nd) 67.5hp

-Mass Healing Word (twice assuming a 4 person party and the Alchemist themselves is taking some damage) 100hp

Total: 167.5hp

So if the Battle Smith burns all of their Jolts on healing and gets the full minute out of Aura of Vitality twice, they're in the same ball park assuming the Alchemist is casting a couple other spells. If their random elixir is a healing one, they gain another 10hp and 12thp in the mix pushing them squarely ahead, though the temp hp is present regardless the type. If it's a five or six person party instead of four? The gap widens as Mass Healing word pushes out more healing.

From my point of view the Alchemist is by far the superior healer in a 3-8 game and at >9th it's a close competition at best if the Battle Smith is comfortable losing their potential damage boost.


I'm curious what sort of game you're playing where PCs go to 0 HP, but you're not interested in healing them back up from 0 HP to full HP afterwards. Is it one big fight per day and that's it?

Aura of Vitality is great, but it's only really good out of combat and if you're not in combat there's a decent chance that you could rest instead. Seeing how so many classes get some form of resource back on a short rest, it's usually more beneficial for a party to rest up than burn a higher level long rest resource to end up mostly full. If there isn't time to safely short rest, that 3rd level slot could instead be spend on Cat Nap.

[ATHATH]

You could certainly optimize for number of elixers. Are they better then first level spells in the long run?
If you just use Alchemist 3 as a dip for a Warlock build, you can be a Coffeeficer. The not!Bless potion looks pretty good, especially since it looks like it can stack with a "real" Bless spell. The duration being only a minute long is kind of annoying, though.

[Dork_Forge]

If you just use Alchemist 3 as a dip for a Warlock build, you can be a Coffeeficer. The not!Bless potion looks pretty good, especially since it looks like it can stack with a "real" Bless spell. The duration being only a minute long is kind of annoying, though.

I refuse to believe the proper name for that build isn't a well crafted iced coffee joke.

It's a solid combo though, I'd probably push it a bit further than 3 Art though, probably more like Warlock 15/Artificer 5

Edit: Now I think about it more, there isn't really a benefit to that many Warlock levels if the goal is elixirs, they don't get more potent with higher level slots so it's just a waste. Warlock 4 for invocations and pact seems like the best option, but just two levels would get the job done. This way you're more likely to hit that 9th level ability for the tmep hp too.

[stoutstien]

Honestly the part of the alchemists that keeps it from being as good as the other two options is the wording of the elixirs make some really hard to be utilized. While the healing boost they get is on the weaker side it doesn't hold them back nearly as much as the inability to effectively administer the EE to anybody who is not incapacitated.

[Feign]

I refuse to believe the proper name for that build isn't a well crafted iced coffee joke.

It's a solid combo though, I'd probably push it a bit further than 3 Art though, probably more like Warlock 15/Artificer 5

Edit: Now I think about it more, there isn't really a benefit to that many Warlock levels if the goal is elixirs, they don't get more potent with higher level slots so it's just a waste. Warlock 4 for invocations and pact seems like the best option, but just two levels would get the job done. This way you're more likely to hit that 9th level ability for the tmep hp too.

Coffieficer is my new favorite thing. Technically, if you put 4 Sorcerer levels into the mix, you can start turning your 2 3rd and 4th level Pact Spell slots into 3 and 4 1st level spell slots respectively, and then into potions. But that requires 5 or 7 levels of Warlock and 4 levels of Sorcerer to pull off, and by that time you're less of a Coffieficer and more of a barrista Scorclock.

I say stick with 2 levels of Warlock for short rest Elixer brewing, or three levels to grab Pact of the Tome and Aspect of the Moon so you can brew potions all night long and horde them over multiple days.