PDA

View Full Version : Original System Virtues and Assets [somewhat PbtA]



Tibbius
2020-07-02, 10:40 AM
I would like some thoughts about this (https://tibbius.itch.io/virtues-and-assets-rpg).

Does the character creation make sense?

Could reasonably skilled DM and players sort out how to tell the story?

aimlessPolymath
2020-07-02, 04:04 PM
Storytelling:
Possibly- there's a lot of DM discretion on how to apply consequences and how to set up costs. If someone is struck with a sword, do I make them lose 2, 3, or 4 Spleen, or should I instead say that their Fist virtue is damaged, or that one of their assets (armor) is damaged and temporarily unusable, or something? I'd like to borrow Fellowship's concept of having a statistic or piece of equipment be 'damaged', as a sort of universal cost.

It's probably fine for an experienced GM, but it leaves a lot of less experienced people high and dry without the sort of suggestions (GM moves) that a lot of PbtA games provide.

Character creation:
I could mechanically create a character after a careful reading, but I don't think the method of "choose a table" functions- I don't understand how the tables are organized (ex. is a 'table' a vertical or a horizontal slice of the 2-d chart?), and the tables don't seem to be organized by any sort of theme, so 'choose a table' doesn't provide much of a meaningful decision.
For simplicity, I'd say "roll 3d6, then choose four permutations of row/column/table defined by those three rolls to be your competencies; also, choose any entry from the entire table as a mastery." For example, on a roll of 1, 5, 4, you could choose four from Helmet, Grandparents, Spouse, Song, Olive Grove, Ox and Cart.

Separately, I'd advise explicitly having players choose their free-choice options after seeing their roll results, regardless of whether you make that change.

Virtues feel generally much broader in scope (and so more powerful) than assets. Additionally, it seems as though Spleen comes back much more easily than assets; it might be nice to let people spend Spleen as an explicit payment to keep from losing their assets or as a general "resist consequence" thing (compare Blades in the Dark). This would help solidify how much the 'value' of 1 Spleen is, and pushes a DM to use more evocative types of costs- having a player's leg stabbed, instead of just dealing hit point damage.

Character advancement and resting: I don't know what a "result higher than one of your successes" means- does it count partial successes, for example? Also, what is a 'rest'? Is it always at the end of the day (as implied by 'that day'?) This feels slow during play, and I'd rather tie it to the sort of heroic stories told in Ancient Greece- ex. after performing a great deed, gain a new competency, gain +1 Spleen, or upgrade a competency to a mastery.

Reprives are a really nice concept, and I'd explicitly let other people can make the roll to 'intercept' if they have an appropriate skill/asset. I really like how it lets you effectively block by rolling using Armor.

Tibbius
2020-07-02, 05:16 PM
Wow. I haven't always experienced such a thorough and thought provoking critique on these boards. Thank you!

Will definitely take your comments back into the woodshed on this one.

In a previous version of these rules I tried having the virtue or asset in use be "damaged" on a failure, but received the comment that for some virtues particularly that could be hard for inexperienced players to narrate - i.e. how is one's Tongue damaged? Maybe a loss of confidence undercutting persuasiveness? So I came up with the loss of Spleen being an abstraction of physical or moral injury that somehow reduces a character's agency. Maybe I could make that more explicit? "The GM can attempt to intrude on your narrative once per scene, unless you roll under your current Spleen?"

The tables are intentionally not thematic - the idea is that the Moirai will throw weirdness into everybody's life, it won't entirely turn out as you hoped, and you have to deal with surprises. Three free picks give some guarantees, the other three you can only hope to get what you wanted but it might be way off. Perhaps with more effort on my part I can keep hold of that concept while making the tables more thematic.

Virtues are intentionally broader than assets. At the same time, assets grant specific abilities and advantages that virtue alone cannot - someone with a strong Back still cannot achieve the wealth of someone with a Workshop and Smith's tools.

I can clarify the rules for growth.

Again, thank you so much! I really appreciate your careful and thoughtful review.

aimlessPolymath
2020-07-02, 07:09 PM
In a previous version of these rules I tried having the virtue or asset in use be "damaged" on a failure, but received the comment that for some virtues particularly that could be hard for inexperienced players to narrate - i.e. how is one's Tongue damaged? Maybe a loss of confidence undercutting persuasiveness? So I came up with the loss of Spleen being an abstraction of physical or moral injury that somehow reduces a character's agency. Maybe I could make that more explicit? "The GM can attempt to intrude on your narrative once per scene, unless you roll under your current Spleen?"

Spitballing:
-One possibility- Maybe "damaged" is the wrong name. Virtues and assets become 'Unusable' when damaged- if your Tongue becomes "unusable", it might be because the situation changes after success so that you can no longer apply it (ex. if combat breaks out, or if people no longer wish to listen to you), while if your Children become 'unusable' in a social situation, it's because they've too afraid to speak up to help you, for example. In this sense, the broader scope of the Virtue also becomes a weakness, because making them unusable involves a greater change to the scene.

-I feel like Spleen as a default consequence covers up the deeper problem of undefined consequences- if someone is struck in combat, I'd prefer that instead of the GM saying "He hits you. You lose 2 Spleen", they say "He hits you... what do you have to damage? Legs? Alright, he hits you in the legs, and you're going to be limping. Do you want to spend 2 Spleen to resist this?". Using Spleen as a generic stat to damage means that players can lose sight of what's actually happening in-game on a failure, so the stakes get lower.

In your example of Tongue, I think that if it's reasonable to say "you lose 2 Spleen because your resolve starts to fail you.", it's equally reasonable to say "You lose your Tongue virtue because your resolve starts to fail you."

The other benefit to virtues or assets becoming situationally damaged/unusable is that it makes recovery clear- you can have a one-sentence description of "Tongue is unusable due to insecurity" or "Tongue is unusable in Athens due to poor reputation", making it clear that it will recover when the character gets a pep talk, or that the damage might not even apply in some situations.

Tibbius
2020-07-02, 07:37 PM
I greatly appreciate your insights. I've updated the draft rules to version 3.5 (https://tibbius.itch.io/virtues-and-assets-rpg).