What feats or class features would be useful in a low-magic humanoid-heavy campaign?

[H_H_F_F]

I would be very interested to hear ideas and opinions on tactics and builds which are usually not that great, but are excellent when mainly fighting humanoid NPCs in a low magic setting. I would also like to hear your opinions on tactics, feats, classes, etc that are usually recommended but wouldn't shine as bright in a campaign like the one mentioned above.

For example, I would assume good tripping would shine brighter when enemies are expected to be medium size and not have crazy STR or DEX, while on the other hand feats like close-quarters combat wouldn't be as necessary for the same reasons. What do you guys think?

Thanks! :smallsmile:

[Nifft]

Not to be too tongue-in-cheek, but the obvious good choice here is magic.

Charm Person, for example, would be even higher power than normal, as would Hold Person.

But "low-magic" can mean a lot of things, and only some of those meanings would prohibit actual magic, or feats and templates and classes which give you spell-like abilities.

So... what do you mean by "low-magic"?


(And yeah, Trip is especially good here.)

[Tvtyrant]

Swallow Whole becomes a lot better if you can mostly guarantee enemy size.

[H_H_F_F]

Not to be too tongue-in-cheek, but the obvious good choice here is magic.

Charm Person, for example, would be even higher power than normal, as would Hold Person.

But "low-magic" can mean a lot of things, and only some of those meanings would prohibit actual magic, or feats and templates and classes which give you spell-like abilities.

So... what do you mean by "low-magic"?


(And yeah, Trip is especially good here.)

Good question. I don't really have a precise answer, it is kind of ambiguous. I'd say that while a primary magic user is definitely not what I meant, a character having access magic that supports and enhances her mundane abilities is probably fine. To give an example, I'd say fighter 10 is definitely fine, ranger 10 is probably fine, psychic warrior 10 is probably not fine, and cleric 10 is definitely not fine.

But yeah... if the answer is essentially "magic", it's not exactly what I had in mind :tongue:

Thank you for your reply!

[Nifft]

Favored Enemy might be easier than usual to pic.

Sneak Attack is stymied by undead, oozes, constructs, and plants -- if those aren't enemies you expect to face, then it's an even better feature.


Can you pick feats from supplements? Chains like Fey Heritage -> Fey Skin -> Fey Presence -> Fey Legacy (all from Complete Mage) are generally considered too weak in a normal-magic game, but might be reasonably strong in a low-magic game.

[Doctor Despair]

Sneak Attack is stymied by undead, oozes, constructs, and plants -- if those aren't enemies you expect to face, then it's an even better feature.


On that note, Death Attack features might be much better, too.

[Kayblis]

Combat maneuvers like Disarm and Sunder get much more useful, because most enemies will wield weapons and depend on them to be effective. The fact that most will be Medium also benefits these feats, as it's usually a losing battle to try and stack size increases vs monsters of equal CR even if they used weapons. Tripping is usually well-recieved as a feat for BFC, and gets stronger as well. Nontraditional weapons like the Net will see good use.

Poisons and alchemical items get a considerable boost in strength and utility, partly because most enemies won't have immunities and bloated saves to avoid it, partly because the big competitor to measure usability against(magic) is out of the picture. Any group will benefit greatly from having a poisoner, so Poison-centric feats and features are very useful.

[ExLibrisMortis]

One type of build that I like (I only mention it every other thread or so) combines incarnum (Astral Vambraces and Therapeutic Mantle) with crusader (Martial Spirit). With a couple of flaws, you can get DR 6/magic and 5 hp healed for a successful melee attack. At level 1. With heavy armour and a greatsword.

This type of build doesn't scale well, especially if the game is high-OP. At low levels, the problem is that your build resources must be spent differently at different levels. For example, at level 1, you're a crusader who's spent two feats on Shape Soulmeld and one feat on Bonus Essentia, which gets the combination online as soon as possible. But at level 2, you can replace all those feats with incarnate 1, which means you're now wasting three feats (more or less), which you'd rather spend to get, say, Karmic Strike. And at level 3, you'll potentially want to take a level in a third class (Decisive Strike monk is my favourite), but that might require a whole new set of feats (Pole Master to use DS with a guisarme, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes). Unless you allow liberal retraining, it's tricky to spend build resources in a way that's efficient at all levels.

At mid-high levels, the problem is more fundamental. DR/magic and small in-combat healing lose their relevance, since a lot of monsters will overcome the DR and out-damage the healing (either with natural attacks, magic weapons, or special abilities). Instead of relying on ever-improving DR and healing, you essentially scale up as a standard lockdown crusader or even übercharger, just with a couple of incarnum feats/incarnate levels. And that wasn't the point of the build.

Fighting humanoids in a low-magic setting--depending on what that means exactly--might get you a lot more use out of that DR, and non-magical healing becomes more valuable, too. Lockdown is more useful against humanoids, and your focus on defending against mundane weapon attacks makes a lot more sense. You could probably extend your crusader/incarnate into the low teens, where you'd have DR 12 and heal 11 hit points per attack. And at level 12, your Astral Vambraces let you fly (slowly), so that's nice.

[Bruh_moment]

troll-blooded from one of the dragon magazines would be a nice feat if your DM allows it, low magic means not many can keep you down permanently without burning or melting you (and MOST non magical forms of that dont do Scary amounts of damage like spells do)

[Tvtyrant]

One type of build that I like (I only mention it every other thread or so) combines incarnum (Astral Vambraces and Therapeutic Mantle) with crusader (Martial Spirit). With a couple of flaws, you can get DR 6/magic and 5 hp healed for a successful melee attack. At level 1. With heavy armour and a greatsword.

This type of build doesn't scale well, especially if the game is high-OP. At low levels, the problem is that your build resources must be spent differently at different levels. For example, at level 1, you're a crusader who's spent two feats on Shape Soulmeld and one feat on Bonus Essentia, which gets the combination online as soon as possible. But at level 2, you can replace all those feats with incarnate 1, which means you're now wasting three feats (more or less), which you'd rather spend to get, say, Karmic Strike. And at level 3, you'll potentially want to take a level in a third class (Decisive Strike monk is my favourite), but that might require a whole new set of feats (Pole Master to use DS with a guisarme, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes). Unless you allow liberal retraining, it's tricky to spend build resources in a way that's efficient at all levels.

At mid-high levels, the problem is more fundamental. DR/magic and small in-combat healing lose their relevance, since a lot of monsters will overcome the DR and out-damage the healing (either with natural attacks, magic weapons, or special abilities). Instead of relying on ever-improving DR and healing, you essentially scale up as a standard lockdown crusader or even übercharger, just with a couple of incarnum feats/incarnate levels. And that wasn't the point of the build.

Fighting humanoids in a low-magic setting--depending on what that means exactly--might get you a lot more use out of that DR, and non-magical healing becomes more valuable, too. Lockdown is more useful against humanoids, and your focus on defending against mundane weapon attacks makes a lot more sense. You could probably extend your crusader/incarnate into the low teens, where you'd have DR 12 and heal 11 hit points per attack. And at level 12, your Astral Vambraces let you fly (slowly), so that's nice.

On that note: Mineral Warrior is extremely good in low magic/low level games. DR 8 and +3 AC is so good at low levels that with Crusader or other tanky classes they are almost indestructible.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Water Orc (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), Mineral Warrior (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) (optional), Dragonborn of Bahamut (RotD) with the Heart aspect. Buy off the level adjustment (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) if you use Mineral Warrior. Take the feat Entangling Exhalation (RotD) and use that as often as possible to keep as many opponents as possible debuffed. Go with a tanky build like Crusader 5/ Binder 1/ Hellreaver 5/ Crusader 9, always binding Naberius, or Fighter 9/ Warblade 10/ Fighter 1 with Dungeoncrasher and Zhentarim Soldier (reflavored) and Dead Levels (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) features, plan to take Weapon Supremacy at 20th level. The idea is to be absurdly tanky, but keep the opponents debuffed and taking damage from your breath attack so they can't move past you and will focus their attacks on your character instead of softer targets.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Grappling gets really strong, and without consistent access to enlarge person Jotunbrud gets a lot more valuable (with one flaw, Half-Giant+Human Heritage+Jotunbrud grapples, trips, bullrushes, etc. as a huge creature at ECL 2).

Naturally, anti-mage abilities get significantly worse. Off the top of my head, that includes the Mage Slayer feat line, the Spellthief class (which also suffers from lack of spellcasting allies to borrow spells from), the Karsite race, the Spellwarped template, and spell resistance.

If Incarnum is still allowed, it is now the king of utility, providing effects similar to spells as Su abilities. Similarly, there's an argument to be made that Gnomish Artificer (and the human adaptation that's name I forget) qualifies as low-magic, and in a low magic universe it's a lot more viable.

[NigelWalmsley]

It depends a lot on the details. Are you expecting to fight large groups of lower level enemies, or smaller numbers of classed ones? What exactly does "low magic" mean? Can you consistently get magic items? What classes are actually available? Even within the general mandate of "less magic, more humanoids", there's a lot of potential variance. For example, a trip build isn't going to do well against a large number of enemies plinking at you from range.


Favored Enemy might be easier than usual to pic.

It's hard to say. The list is smaller, but there's a lot more variance. If you pick something like Undead or Dragon or Aberration, you can expect to have a target in most adventures. Whereas in this setup you might end up with your ability active every encounter, or your might pick up Favored Enemy (Elves) because you expect to fight Drow underground, then end up in a Goblin warren.

[H_H_F_F]

Thank you all for your replies! They've been very interesting, and made some great points I haven't considered.