Nature Cleric Shillelagh/Spirit Guardians/Spiritual Weapon Combo Question

[Snownine]

Hey guys, I have a question pertaining to a build I have been thinking about. I would like to make a hill dwarf nature cleric who uses a shillelagh enhanced quarter staff as his weapon of choice but I have hit a small snag. I love the cleric combo of having spirit guardians and spiritual weapon up at the same time but I can't see any way to have both of these and shillelagh online in less than 3 rounds of combat. Shillelagh being a bonus action cantrip precludes it from being cast the same turn as spiritual weapon. I have been banging my head on this for a little bit now to no avail. Am I missing something obvious or is there no way to speed up the process of getting all 3 spells online in combat?

[Derijh]

Without multi-classing into Sorcerer for three levels or using a wish spell to create a simulacrum, the only way I can see it happening in less than three rounds would be to keep shilleliegh active at all times. Much the way I've seen the guidance cantrip used in AL play over the past three years.

[poopyloop]

Wanna make sure I'm understanding this right and not missing anything. So you want:
1. shillelagh
2. Spiritual weapon
3. Spirit guardians
All active ASAP
why not do
Turn 1: cast spirit guardians as an action and shillelagh as a bonus action (pretty sure you can cast a BA cantrip and an action spell on the same turn can't you?)
Turn 2: cast spiritual weapon as BA and attack with your active staff as an action

[Snownine]

Without multi-classing into Sorcerer for three levels or using a wish spell to create a simulacrum, the only way I can see it happening in less than three rounds would be to keep shilleliegh active at all times. Much the way I've seen the guidance cantrip used in AL play over the past three years.

The latter is what I have been thinking of doing. The couple of DMs I normally play with would probably be cool with going on the assumption that my character keeps the spell reupped in dangerous situations.

[Snownine]

Wanna make sure I'm understanding this right and not missing anything. So you want:
1. shillelagh
2. Spiritual weapon
3. Spirit guardians
All active ASAP
why not do
Turn 1: cast spirit guardians as an action and shillelagh as a bonus action (pretty sure you can cast a BA cantrip and an action spell on the same turn can't you?)
Turn 2: cast spiritual weapon as BA and attack with your active staff as an action

Unfortunately, per RAW, you can't cast a spell with a casting time of an action and a spell or cantrip with the casting time of a bonus action on the same turn. You can cast a bonus action spell and a cantrip with the casting time of an action however.

[poopyloop]

Unfortunately, per RAW, you can't cast a spell with a casting time of an action and a spell or cantrip with the casting time of a bonus action on the same turn. You can cast a bonus action spell and a cantrip with the casting time of an action however.

That seems pretty ridiculous. I don't see what's wrong with the ba cantrip with a spell when you can action cantrip with a ba spell. Do you know what page that's on? Pretty sure my groups have been playing that one not per rules since I started. Tho I don't think it would break or even unbalance anything to allow it.

[Andrwrwn]

This is the very point that causes Treantmonk to rate the Nature Cleric relatively poorly in his YouTube rundown of the various Domains; the competition for your bonus actions.

He notes the irony that Shillelagh would actually work better if it had a casting time of an action and pretty much concludes as you already have that the solution is to speak to your DM and ask if they are happy for you to be casting Shillelagh by default once per minute unless otherwise stated.

[AttilatheYeon]

Even getting your combo up piecemeal over 3 rounds is a lot of damage. I wouldn't really sweat trying to do all 3 unless it's a deadly encounter. If it is, it should last long enough to get food mileage from all three. Until then, just cast SG first round, Shillelagh the second round and attack if large groups. If small groups Shillelagh and attack then SW second round and attack.

[Brawnspear]

As a suggestion for Shillelagh timings. In my game, in dangerous situations (trekking through the underbrush, cavern delving, dungeon crawling, etc.) I just let the player roll a d10 at the beginning of combat, and that's how many rounds his shillelagh is active for, assuming he made a point of telling me he'd like to be keeping it ready. I have a much different opinion on guidance, but we don't need to delve into that here.

[Derijh]

That seems pretty ridiculous. I don't see what's wrong with the ba cantrip with a spell when you can action cantrip with a ba spell. Do you know what page that's on? Pretty sure my groups have been playing that one not per rules since I started. Tho I don't think it would break or even unbalance anything to allow it.

In the player's handbook pg. 202 Heading: Casting time, sub-heading Bonus Action.

[Chronos]

Personally, I'm fine with houseruling that anything you can do with a bonus action, you can do with an action. And I'd probably also houserule that action leveled spell plus bonus action cantrip (which I think just means Shillelagh) is fine.

I suspect that most DMs would rule similarly, and that many wouldn't even realize that they were houserules.

[Snownine]

Thanks for the ideas and thoughts everyone. I agree, it is silly that you can't use a bonus action cantrip with an action spell on the same turn. I think I will go ahead and ask whoever is DMing for that character is they are cool with assuming that I am keeping it cast at all times if I say so ahead of time before combat. I really like Brawnspear's idea of using a D10 to determine has many rounds I have left since the last casting of it, that is really good thinking. And I think AttilatheYeon is right that I would only need to pull out all 3 for boss fights and the like.