[3.5e] Paladin melee optimization with few splatbooks

[Hiden]

The playground has helped me out a ton with learning different ways to put together characters but now I'm stepping in to ask for some feedback/advice on a new character I'm trying to make.

TL;DR
Books: PHB, CW, CD, SRD*
Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Good
Focus: Any melee role using some amount of Paladin
Banned: DMM:Persist
Avoid: Excessive cleric levels. Some could be fine but Paladin 2/Cleric 18 isn't what I'm going for with this one.

Info
I am in a game that starts at level 1 and uses very little sourcebooks, the total list is: PHB, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, and limited use of the online SRD. *By limited I mean no psionics, no prestige bard/ranger/paladin, and no elemental racial variants (looking at you, Water Orcs), and we have a gentlemen's agreement to not use DMM:Persist. It hasn't been discussed yet but I would assume something like Leadership would also require a long conversation with the DM.

This means no PHBII spells like Rhino's Rush for Paladins and no access to certain PrC's I've seen mentioned like Ordained Champion.

Gameplay
The combat in the setting has a good balance of open terrain and enclosed spaces, ranging from open fields to cramped caves. Gold and magic items are a little harder to come by, going by the PC Wealth by Level chart on average our group seems to operate at around PC Level - 3 amounts of wealth/gold. I don't have much experience with the game above 10th level, and my understanding of magic items, their costs, and their benefits is limited. I looked at the Wondrous Items, Magic Armor, and Magic Weapons lists on the SRD website but I'm not too sure which are best for my circumstances.

Personal Choices
I do not want to fall as a Paladin. I am dead-set on being a Lawful Good Human and wish to push Paladin (or at least a Paladin chassis) as far as I can in regards to melee combat. The only multi-classing outcome I want to avoid is "Cleric build with Paladin dip." No Strongheart Halfling, no Paladin of Freedom. I know all the limiting factors are starting to pile up and it seems a bit absurd, but this is the game I'm given and I really want to try to capture the archetypal heroic Paladin that goes into combat and makes things happen.

I have come up with three possibilities on my own so far, two of which I've put some preliminary thought into. They all do what they can to avoid the infamous "dead level" problems I've heard that paladins have. For my skills, aside from filling out PrC requirements, the focus will probably be some mix of Ride, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive. Cross-classing skills might also be an option if needed.

Ability Scores
But first my character: Human and it's 32-point buy and there's two stat arrays I'm looking at so far, a more combat-oriented one and the other more face-oriented.

32-point buy
Combat| Face
STR 16| STR 14
DEX 10| DEX 12
CON 14| CON 14
_INT 8 | INT 14
WIS 12| WIS 14
CHA 16| CHA 14

Let me know what you think of the ability scores if there is anything worth changing. Now on to the builds!

Builds
LG Human, worships Heironeous, wields lance, longsword, heavy shield, maybe greatsword, bow, and early on maybe a morningstar or something else blunt to deal with skeletons (I'm assuming a falchion isn't covered by a Cavalier's bonus to "swords")
Fighter 2/Paladin 5/Ranger 1/Cavalier 10/Not Sure X
H: Power Attack
1: Weapon Focus (lance)
F1: Mounted Combat
F2: Ride-by Attack
3: Extra Smiting
6: Spirited Charge
9: Divine Might
12: Improved Buckler Defense
15: not sure
18: not sure

Starts as Fighter for the bonus feats to both work towards Cavalier and let me enjoy myself early on with Power Attack and Extra Smiting when I take my first level of Paladin at level 3. I take the level in ranger to open up the possibility of using spell trigger items of ranger spells down the line. The last two levels could be spent snagging a couple cleric domains and maybe sorcerer so my Paladin can retire with a familiar as a pet.

LG Human, worships St. Cuthbert, wields falchion, heavy mace, heavy shield, maybe a bow
Paladin 5/Pious Templar 10/Not Sure X
H: Power Attack
1: Weapon Focus (heavy mace)
3: True Believer
6: Divine Might
9: Extra Smiting
PT9: (undecided fighter bonus feat, maybe Cleave or Improved Initiative)
12: Practiced Spellcaster [Pious Templar]
PT13: (dunno, maybe the one I didn't take for the first fighter bonus feat)
15: not sure
18: not sure

This gets proper access to the whole Paladin spell list and some extra smites. If the charger is a hammer, this would be an anvil, trying to block tougher enemies from getting to the squishier party members or keeping those tougher enemies in place for classes like the rogue to maneouver in to do their thing. You may notice the change in deity, that's because I looked at the Relics mentioned in the True Believer feat and decided that I preferred St. Cuthbert's relics, a mace that talks smack to your enemies every round and a swanky tabard, over those of Heironeous: a magic sword that can't talk and a +2 CHA hat. I might be able to talk to the DM and get away with homebrewing a deity, say, St. Buthcert, the falchion-favouring Neutral Good deity of talking falchions and cool tabards, but if that doesn't go through then at least I've got some RAW to serve as a foundation. As for the classes after the PrC, I'm not sure. Maybe Cleric to get the Destruction for MOAR SMITES and either the Luck or Travel domain. Rogue could toss some sneak attack dice in the mix, speaking of which...

LG Human, worships Heironeous, wields whatever's needed
Paladin 2/Rogue X/PrC X (Master Thrower?)
Feats: probably

Oh god it's session 1 and no one has trapfinding. Time to take the crusade to the shadows and hope evil can be kept at bay with sneak attack dice and UMD.

Those are what have come to my mind so far. A charger, a crit-fishing smiter (especially if I can get away with a homebrew deity), and lastly simply throwing sneak attack d6's at the problem. For all three I'm not 100% sure on Feat progression, especially in the later levels, though the prestige classes definitely keep some early feats locked in, and I've yet to do the math on how they might fair in a given combat encounter.
In the end, when it comes to class progression and feat progression, it always feels like there's one way or another I could do something better or that I might be forgetting something that I haven't considered. I'm honestly still a little fuzzy about exactly what spells I'll even be casting in combat or before combat.

[JeminiZero]

If you can't cast the Shield spell, I'd try to fit Improved Buckler Defence [CWar] somewhere in there.

Otherwise, another possibility is to roll a Sorcadin. Given the sources available, maybe something like: Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Sorcerer +1 / Eldritch Knight 10

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Honestly, there are some really cool alternate class features in other books that actually make Paladin worth sticking with for nearly 20 levels (example (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?275093-its-a-villain-sort-of#5), but it's a bit over the top). Just being able to get Charging Smite in PH2 and/or Divine Counterspell in CM plus Divine Defiance in FCII would make Cloistered Cleric 1/ Paladin 19 worthwhile, but that gets better with devotion feats in CC.

What level are you starting at, and what level do you reasonably expect this character to reach?

[H_H_F_F]

Someone above mentioned Eldritch Knight, which could work (though I am unsure it's what you're going for conceptually). Do you have access to DMG prestige classes?

Rouge/Paladin would obviously work great with Shadowbane Inquisitor from Complete Adventurer, if your DM were to allow it. I wouldn't bring it up unprovoked, but If you're forced to go down the rouge road, I think it's worth checking with them.

I'm also kind of weirded out by the Practiced spellcaster. You'll have around 1 first level Paladin spell per day, it doesn't seem worth the feat to increase its CL from 5 to 9. In the Pious Templar build, it would make much more sense to take it for the Pious Templar than for the Paladin. Are you sure you understand how the feat works? It won't give you the spellcasting of Paladin 9, just the caster level.

Edit: if you're expecting less WBL than usual, Kensai may be worth considering, and it seems like a good feat thematically.

[Gorthawar]

With the limitations you've got there are not that many great choices. I'm wary of the cavalier as you will be overly reliant on a large mount and depending on your campaign that might not work that well. Pious Templar looks like fun and if you're amenable to a minor change in race you could give something like a Desert half-orc Paladin4/Half-orc Paragon3/Bear Warrior5/PiousTemplar8 in no particular order a shot.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Be sure to check with your DM before taking Eldritch Knight, as it doesn't advance spells known. So using it to advance Sorcerer gets you a Sorcadin with higher level spell slots, but no higher level spells known.

Maybe go something like Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 7/ Sacred Exorcist 7, which gets a +16 BAB but not 9th level spells by 20th level, Practiced Spellcaster is available and you have zero feat prerequisites. In the higher levels you can use Channel Spell to inject a powerful opponent with a Cloudkill, inflicting 1d4 Con damage (minimum 1 even if they save) per round for ten rounds per level. Use Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Arcane Strike, and Divine Might. Choice spells include Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, and any strong AoE crowd controls and save-or-lose spells like Web, Glitterdust, Sleet Storm, and Black Tentacles.

For magic item choices, there's a list of necessary magic items (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items) that you should try to have something from every category, but with your limited selection of books some of those may not be possible until the very high levels without custom items. Mithral armor with +1 Heavy Fortification and a weapon with +1 Speed and a +1 Animated heavy shield are all pretty standard for a melee type. Spell Storing on your weapon for something like a (Lesser Rod of Maximized) Vampiric Touch can be useful for healing yourself without sacrificing attacks.

[Hiden]

If you can't cast the Shield spell, I'd try to fit Improved Buckler Defence [CWar] somewhere in there.

Otherwise, another possibility is to roll a Sorcadin. Given the sources available, maybe something like: Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Sorcerer +1 / Eldritch Knight 10

Be sure to check with your DM before taking Eldritch Knight, as it doesn't advance spells known. So using it to advance Sorcerer gets you a Sorcadin with higher level spell slots, but no higher level spells known.

Maybe go something like Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 7/ Sacred Exorcist 7, which gets a +16 BAB but not 9th level spells by 20th level, Practiced Spellcaster is available and you have zero feat prerequisites. In the higher levels you can use Channel Spell to inject a powerful opponent with a Cloudkill, inflicting 1d4 Con damage (minimum 1 even if they save) per round for ten rounds per level. Use Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Arcane Strike, and Divine Might. Choice spells include Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, and any strong AoE crowd controls and save-or-lose spells like Web, Glitterdust, Sleet Storm, and Black Tentacles.

For magic item choices, there's a list of necessary magic items that you should try to have something from every category, but with your limited selection of books some of those may not be possible until the very high levels without custom items. Mithral armor with +1 Heavy Fortification and a weapon with +1 Speed and a +1 Animated heavy shield are all pretty standard for a melee type. Spell Storing on your weapon for something like a (Lesser Rod of Maximized) Vampiric Touch can be useful for healing yourself without sacrificing attacks.

These seem really good! Sorcadin appeals to me because I love the fluff of magic + sword combos, I didn't think I'd end up plugging this much arcane into a divine melee build but it looks very fun.

What level are you starting at, and what level do you reasonably expect this character to reach?

It's starting at level 1 and could go anywhere from level 6 to level 20, depending on a lot of things. At the very least I think it would go to levels 12-15 and if it's still good fun at that point, I don't see a reason why we wouldn't keep going.

Someone above mentioned Eldritch Knight, which could work (though I am unsure it's what you're going for conceptually). Do you have access to DMG prestige classes?

Rouge/Paladin would obviously work great with Shadowbane Inquisitor from Complete Adventurer, if your DM were to allow it. I wouldn't bring it up unprovoked, but If you're forced to go down the rouge road, I think it's worth checking with them.

I'm also kind of weirded out by the Practiced spellcaster. You'll have around 1 first level Paladin spell per day, it doesn't seem worth the feat to increase its CL from 5 to 9. In the Pious Templar build, it would make much more sense to take it for the Pious Templar than for the Paladin. Are you sure you understand how the feat works? It won't give you the spellcasting of Paladin 9, just the caster level.

Edit: if you're expecting less WBL than usual, Kensai may be worth considering, and it seems like a good feat thematically.

Yes, I think we have access to the DMG prestige classes. I can't see the DM denying someone Dwarven Defender so the other ones should be fine too. I'll keep the Shadowbane Inquisitor in mind.
You're absolutely right about the Practiced Spellcaster. For the Pious Templar build I was looking at the Hospitalier progression by mistake and for the Cavalier I also mistakenly believed that it would provide some benefit to using magic items that had Paladin spells stored in them.
I always skipped over Kensai thinking "Pfft, it's that monk PrC" but now that i actually read it, it does seem really interesting. I could have a Holy weapon at level 7. Then the question becomes which weapon to choose? Lance for charging, or a more standard melee weapon like a greatsword, falchion, or longsword? Or maybe even a double-weapon so I can take advantage of enchanting both sides?

With the limitations you've got there are not that many great choices. I'm wary of the cavalier as you will be overly reliant on a large mount and depending on your campaign that might not work that well. Pious Templar looks like fun and if you're amenable to a minor change in race you could give something like a Desert half-orc Paladin4/Half-orc Paragon3/Bear Warrior5/PiousTemplar8 in no particular order a shot.
Another great idea! I'm guessing I could keep it Human by making the alignment Chaotic Good so a Paladin of Freedom that multiclasses into Barbarian for the Bear Warrior. I like both the Half-Orc and the Freedom paladin options, I like them a lot. Thank you for this.

You guys are amazing, you know that? I can't help but think of all the possible backstories characters like these could have. Normally when I die, I roll a totally different character but in this case I think I'll end up making a ton of different flavors of Paladin character sheets in the event the campaign has a higher mortality rate than usual.

[el minster]

use CM and CC so you can get good ACFs, battle blessing, and devotion feats

[Anthrowhale]

Divine Crusader is potentially another interesting possibility as it opens up 9th level spells, although from a limited selection.

Something like: Fighter 1/Paladin 4/War Priest 1/Hospitaler 1/Divine Crusader 1/War Priest 1/Hospitaler 3/Divine Crusader 4/?? 4 with feats from a mixture of idea 1 and idea 2 would satisfy prereqs, keep a high BAB, and potentially (need Cha 28) grant access to 9th level spells from 2 domains (Glory and a chosen domain) by 16th level. Glory provides Holy Sword and Gate. Magic and Protection are good domain choices.

If you are willing to relax Human, then Seeker of the Misty Isle is great as it provides 3/4 BAB, Magic & Travel domains, and 6+Int skill points/level.

If you can get access to Fist of Raziel, then Fighter 2/Paladin 4/Fist of Raziel 1/Divine Crusader 1/Fist of Raziel 9 is a pretty good paladin-like build.

[el minster]

That build is why too complicated and probably uses weird splatbooks but the idea to add PrCs that add domains to a divine crusader is very viable.

[ThanatosZero]

If UA's Alternative Class Features alongside Dragon content are allowed, you could create a very effective Paladin based on Favored Enemy.

At level 1 start as a Ranger, who lost his faith. Rangers who lost their faith, can take the ACF Solitary Hunter (Dragon#347), which gives up your animal companion for you to gain additionally a attack bonus as high as your damage bonus on your favored enemies as well.

Continue then your career as a paladin with the ACF, wherer they give up their turn undead, remove disease and lay on hands ability to gain favored enemy, which is the same as ranger (therefore it follows the same progression at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level)
You may only select aberrations, dragons, giants, monstrous humanoids, evil outsiders, or undead.

As a Ranger 1/Paladin 9, you will have a +6 bonus to hit and damage on undead for example. And as Ranger 1/Paladin 19, you will have a flat +10 bonus to hit and damage, which alone sounds pretty awesome for low magic games.

[liquidformat]

You could always go with paladin to divine crusader strength domain for example is always a powerful choice.

[Maat Mons]

You mention not wanting "excessive cleric levels." From your viewpoint, would Hospitaler levels advancing Cleric casting count as Cleric levels or Paladin levels?

[Hiden]

You mention not wanting "excessive cleric levels." From your viewpoint, would Hospitaler levels advancing Cleric casting count as Cleric levels or Paladin levels?

That could be fine with me, though I'd prefer the first character level start as a Paladin. Were you thinking something like Paladin 2/Cleric 4/Hospitaler 10 or did you have something else in mind?

[Maat Mons]

I was thinking either Paladin 2 / Cleric 4 / Hospitaler 10 / Something 4 or Paladin 2 / Cleric 4 / Hospitaler 8 / Something 6, depending on what the Something winds up being.

[Anthrowhale]

That could be fine with me, though I'd prefer the first character level start as a Paladin. Were you thinking something like Paladin 2/Cleric 4/Hospitaler 10 or did you have something else in mind?

If you are willing to use DMM:Quicken, then you could use a full spell advancing classes and rely on DMM:Quicken Divine Power to get the necessary BAB to be a front-liner. Of the possibilities available, it looks like Church Inquisitor and Sacred Exorcist stand out as having a decent HD (d8). Divine Oracle is also quite impressive with a Paladin's saves, heavy armor, and Prescient Sense. The 10th level ability (immunity to surprise) is also quite nice. The most powerful choice is probably Dweomerkeeper, although that doesn't fit the flavor very well.

[ThanatosZero]

I wonder, if your DM doesn't mind the Champion of Gwynharwyf from the Book of Exalted Deeds (p.56).

It is a prestige class, which is the barbarian combined with the paladin (of freedom).
To qualify you need to be chaotic good, have a Base Attack Bonus of atleast +6, 9 skill ranks in intimidate
and have as feats selected Knight of Stars and Righteous Wrath.

As a Barbarian 6/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10/Barbarian +4 (10), you will have raging abilities of a 20th level barbarian, alongside having the staples of paladin abilities, minus lay on hands and turn undead.
In addition, you will be able cast divine spells while you rage, but only the spells granted by the prestige class itself.

Last but not least, damage reduction /-7 (5+2), energy resistance 10 for fire, cold and electricy,
immunity to charm and compulsion;
and a fearsome fury which will shake all enemies, who fail their will saves against your intimidate check.

[liquidformat]

if you want extra fun with smite Fist of Raziel is another great class from Book of Exalted Deeds and a pretty good class all around.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think the problem with Divine Crusader and sorcadin builds is that they don't come online until ECL ~10 (perhaps a bit lower for a basic sorcadin). Of course, paladins don't get much of anything at lower levels, so it's at least in part a class issue, but source restrictions really don't help at all.


It is possible to do a Favoured Enemy build with barbarian 1/ranger 1/paladin X (or ranger/barbarian, either is fine). You start as LG (ex-)barbarian (UA Crafty Hunter variant), which means you lose your rage--good thing you traded that away for Favoured Enemy. Then you get a new FE for ranger level (UA wildshape variant, since it gets you more Fast Movement) and another one for your paladin level, and again at level 7. At that point, you have enough base attack for Divine Crusader, if it ever comes to that.

I'll admit, I don't love it, but it gets a bit more out of those empty low levels.


I like the idea of Combat Brute + Ride-By Attack, but that comes online at level 6 at the earliest (with 4 feats invested in it, so you need a flaw or a fighter dip for Spirited Charge). Shock Trooper would fit in there, too, and even Cavalry Charger, though the feat costs pile up. You'd really want Knockback in there, and quite possibly Dungeoncrasher, but you'd have to be a goliath, pretty much.

Something like goliath fighter 9 with two flaws can get them sort-of-easily (I realize it's not a paladin nor within your book restrictions, just looking at the combo for a bit). Your mounted combat core comes online fast. Feats at level 1: Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample. Your feats at level 2, 3, and 4 are Power Attack, Improved Sunder, and Improved Bull Rush. At level 6, you get Knockback and Shock Trooper. At level 8 and 9, you get Cavalry Charger and Combat Brute.

The idea is that you charge someone with a two-handed lance. With full PA, Shock Trooper, Leaping Charge, Spirited Charge and all that, damage is 3d8+93 with 22 STR, no magic items.
Hitting your target with PA gets you a free bull rush (+18 bonus from PA, +2 from charge), which lets you push your target into someone else.
That triggers Shock Trooper (Domino Rush) for free trips. Improved Trip might give you bonus attacks here, which would get all the charge goodies "as if you hadn't used your attack for the trip attempt", but you might not. The trips aren't the result of a proper trip attempt, after all. For what it's worth, if you do get trip attacks here, take Improved Trip and never look back. Remember to trigger Knockback on your bonus attacks (a good reason not to allow the combo, perhaps :smalltongue:).
You then run over/past the now-tripped enemies, as per Ride-By Attack. I don't think you get to trample the targets you run over (Cavalry Charger does let you trample multiple targets, but it still takes a standard action), but they are not in the way, at least. Ask your DM about trample damage, because it is 100% totally appropriate, and only about 1d6+4 per target (one hoof attack).
You now line up for your next charge, either against a new target, or against the same target. Next round, you get Momentum Swing for greater PA returns (regardless of target), giving you an extra 27 damage, as well as Advancing Blows if you're charging the same target you bull rushed.

Alternatively, you could have your horse with +5 vorpal hooves and use Cavalry Charger to attack any number of targets with a single move. Entirely reasonable, I'm sure.

[el minster]

stright paladin except one level at the beginning of cleric gives you a ton of turn attempts and two domain feats for free so you could get a warrior with alot of powerful buffs /utility stuff

[animewatcha]

Within complete divine, there should be a variant that changes Turn undead for fearing/turning undead into flat out hitpoints damage. While still counting as turn undead.
Also considered option where you give up Turn Undead the ability for something else?

[el minster]

never give up turn undead!

[Hiden]

stright paladin except one level at the beginning of cleric gives you a ton of turn attempts and two domain feats for free so you could get a warrior with alot of powerful buffs /utility stuff

Unfortunately the SRD says "In the special case of turning undead, both clerics and experienced paladins have the same ability. If the character’s paladin level is 4th or higher, her effective turning level is her cleric level plus her paladin level minus 3."
The turn attempts don't stack (still at 3 + CHA modifier) but the Cleric levels and Paladin levels 4th and higher stack for the sake of turning checks.

[el minster]

so you won't get as many turn attempts but you get two free domain feats

[Hiden]

Be sure to check with your DM before taking Eldritch Knight, as it doesn't advance spells known. So using it to advance Sorcerer gets you a Sorcadin with higher level spell slots, but no higher level spells known.

Maybe go something like Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 7/ Sacred Exorcist 7, which gets a +16 BAB but not 9th level spells by 20th level, Practiced Spellcaster is available and you have zero feat prerequisites. In the higher levels you can use Channel Spell to inject a powerful opponent with a Cloudkill, inflicting 1d4 Con damage (minimum 1 even if they save) per round for ten rounds per level. Use Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Arcane Strike, and Divine Might. Choice spells include Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, and any strong AoE crowd controls and save-or-lose spells like Web, Glitterdust, Sleet Storm, and Black Tentacles.

For magic item choices, there's a list of necessary magic items that you should try to have something from every category, but with your limited selection of books some of those may not be possible until the very high levels without custom items. Mithral armor with +1 Heavy Fortification and a weapon with +1 Speed and a +1 Animated heavy shield are all pretty standard for a melee type. Spell Storing on your weapon for something like a (Lesser Rod of Maximized) Vampiric Touch can be useful for healing yourself without sacrificing attacks.

I had to change the build around a bit.
Sacred Exorcist requires being able to cast dismissal or dispel evil before being able to be taken. Dispel Evil seems out since the Paladin will never be able to actually cast the spell on his own. so the 5th level spell Dismissal is needed, meaning 10 spellcasting levels of Sorcerer is needed. Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 7 gives only 8 levels so I'm opting for Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/Sorcerer+3 instead.
So here's what it looks like at the moment:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/Sorcerer +3/Sacred Exorcist 6
Lawful Good Human, worships Heironeous
Feats
H: Power Attack (str 13)
1: Improved Bull Rush
3: Empower Spell [Metamagic]
6: Practiced Spellcrafter [Sorcerer]
S8: Shock Trooper
9: Arcane Strike
12: Cleave
15: Divine Might
18: Extra Turning
Ability Scores: Str 16/Dex 10/Con 12/Int 8/Wis 8/Cha 18
I checked the skillpoint requirements for the feats and PrCs and made sure they were able to be met.
I haven't finished putting together my prospective list of spells known yet and I assume my ability score increases every 4 levels will go into Charisma.

Finally, I think there's a question of the legality of me taking Arcane Strike at level 9 though. It would be the exact level that 3rd level arcane spells (which the feat requires) would be learned, but in the PHB spells come after feats in the level up process, which makes me think the proper adherence to RAW is to swap Cleave and Arcane Strike so the former is learned at CL 9 and the latter at CL 12. This could also extend to Sacred Exorcist getting Divine Might as the first level is taken at CL 15. Divine Might requires turning, but class features are listed dead last in the level advancement process. So in that case, to take Divine Might at 15 the build would have to be Pal2/Sorc4/Spell3/Sorc+4/Sacred7 where I get the 7th sacred exorcist level but lose spellsword's channels per day, but I could keep them with Pal2/Sorc4/Spell3/Sorc+4/Sacred1/Spell+2/Sacred+4, but now there is not enough skill points to meet the knowledge (the planes) 10 and knowledge (religion) 7 requirements of Sacred Exorcist, which I could fix by docking Constitution to 10 for Intelligence 10, or going down to Charisma 17 or even Strength 14, and with Strength 14 I could bump up both Intelligence to 10 and Constitution to 14.

This seems like a very edge case though, and it may just be down to me horrendously misunderstanding pages 58-59 of the PHB.

[H_H_F_F]

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/Sorcerer +3/Sacred Exorcist 6


Why not Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 3/ Eldritch Knight 5/ Sacred Exorcist 6?

Are you really concerned with your DM not letting you advance spells known with eldritch knight? It's very clearly just an oversight, isn't it?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Here I was thinking Dismissal was a 4th level spell for everyone, but it is 5th level on the Sorcerer/Wizard list.

Ideally you would be able to use Abjurant Champion in Complete Mage, and go Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8, which gets 9th level spells and a +16 BAB at 20th level.

I think you're fine taking Arcane Strike at the level you gain 3rd level spell slots, regardless of the order in which new spells are learned. If not, change the order you gain the levels slightly to put Sorcerer 5 before Spellsword 2, which gets you 3rd level spells at 8th level and moves the Spellsword 2 feat to 9th.

I hate to say it, but Battle Sorcerer (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer) may actually be worth considering since almost half your build is in that class. Having Sorcerer 7 loses four BAB, but Battle Sorcerer up to 8 only loses two BAB, and the d4 HD goes to d8. Going Paladin 2/ Battle Sorcerer 7/ Spellsword 5/ Sacred Exorcist 6 gets a +16 BAB and 8th level spells at 20th level, and every level you get a d10 or d8 hp. Plus you can wear light armor or a mithral breastplate even before taking Spellsword without worrying about arcane spell failure, which is a serious consideration starting at 1st level. Spellsword's ASF reduction can still be applied to an (animated) shield, once you have one.

[el minster]

by the way you're allowed to take a feat the level you qualify for it.

[Gorthawar]

I second the advise for battle sorcerer. Your build looks way too squishy otherwise and the lack of BaB at mid-early levels will be painful as well. Furthermore I'd take some of the points off Charisma and put them into your combat stats. As a Gish you should not require on maxing your spell DCs as much and the extra hp and ac + initiative will come in handy.