Wild Magic Sorcerer players drive me crazy.

[Spo]

Warning, rant ahead:

It seems like in the last couple years I have been in groups where there has been at least one wild magic sorcerer. And although these are different people playing them at different tables, they always seem to have the same “look-at-me” personality.

They eagerly hope a spell will trigger a consequence (not just to them but to the whole party) and they constantly are asking the dms if their wild magic affects this or that. IÂ’ve played at tables with modified wild magic tables that have some serious results for the whole party if if mr-look-at-me roll a certain number.

In truth, I think I would play with a dreaded edge lord than a spotlight craving wild magic sorcerer. It just is exhausting at times and in reality, If someone wanted to join a group on an adventure and they say that their usefulness comes from casting spells but there is chance I’ll launch a fireball at you guys as well, can I come. Would that group really want them to join? That is like saying, “hey guys, can I go to lunch with you? But be warned, I have covid.” Would that group really want them to tag along?

[NecessaryWeevil]

It's natural to want your class features to actually be relevant in the game.

That being said, I agree that there's a certain suspension of disbelief required when otherwise-cautious adventurers willingly associate with a companion whose class features make them a loose cannon.

[micahaphone]

I haven't personally seen that, usually the spotlight hogs either go edgelord martial or bard.


Homebrew wild magic tables are frequently a bad idea (I hate the "Net libram 10,000 effects" table).

In general, it sounds like you're dealing with players that want a wackier, more chaotic game, and you don't. Nothing wrong with that, just differing objectives.

[Luccan]

IME, everyone complains about Wild Sorcerer because of the self-centered Fireball that appears on the list of Wild Magic. A good Wild Sorcerer player just needs to know to stand further away from the party. As long as you aren't within 30 ft of anyone, they can't be effected by anything harmful you do on accident. Alternately, a gish with decent saves (and maybe Fire resistance) can actually put some of those negative effects to use against the bad guys. And since you don't get to use your other class feature more than once without the table triggering, it makes sense to ask (house-rules can certainly alleviate the need to ask, though)

Edit: I do think you have a valid complaint. I don't want to be dismissive, though I disagree with this applying to everyone playing a WM Sorcerer, it makes sense it might attract that kind of player. I know I've seen the subclass rejected out of hand enough times that it must be something a lot of people come across, where a player will at best show little regard for the consequences of the table or at worst actively hope to be a hindrance. Of course, in the latter case, I think the move is to bar them from the game, since they'll work to be a hindrance no matter what class they play.


I haven't personally seen that, usually the spotlight hogs either go edgelord martial or bard.


Homebrew wild magic tables are frequently a bad idea (I hate the "Net libram 10,000 effects" table).

In general, it sounds like you're dealing with players that want a wackier, more chaotic game, and you don't. Nothing wrong with that, just differing objectives.

I hate that table so much. It not only has even worse effects, it seems to largely shift the balance to negative ones. The PHB table is around 70-80% beneficial or non-harmful effects (even some of the harmful ones can be turned to your advantage).

[micahaphone]

I hate that table so much. It not only has even worse effects, it seems to largely shift the balance to negative ones. The PHB table is around 70-80% beneficial or non-harmful effects (even some of the harmful ones can be turned to your advantage).

I once tried using it, and a kobold player in the underdark got the result "your house turns into sodium". His tribe lived in a mountain cave thousands of miles away. Was I just supposed to have a massive explosion wreck a mountain range far far away? My campaign wasn't going there anytime soon, and that's interesting, but is a massive tangent that I'm not looking to introduce to my campaign.

That result isn't that far off from many other entries on the net libram table, just some might have a more immediate effect. It's like the arcane system compliment to the Deck of Many Things - use only if you want your campaign to go off the rails in unpredictable ways.

[Veldrenor]

It seems like in the last couple years I have been in groups where there has been at least one wild magic sorcerer. And although these are different people playing them at different tables, they always seem to have the same “look-at-me” personality.

I don't doubt that "center-of-attention" players may be drawn to the archetype, but I wonder how many such players behave that way as an unintentional result of how the archetype functions.



They eagerly hope a spell will trigger a consequence (not just to them but to the whole party) and they constantly are asking the dms if their wild magic affects this or that.


Like NecessaryWeevil said, people want to be able to use their class features. Unfortunately the wild sorcerer's major feature only happens at the DM's whim, so the wild sorcerer has to constantly ask (making themselves "mr-look-at-me" as you put it) or else never get to use their features. Would wild sorcerer players seem less attention-seeking if the chance to surge were hard-coded rather than being in the DM's hands?



IÂ’ve played at tables with modified wild magic tables that have some serious results for the whole party if if mr-look-at-me roll a certain number.


And that's on the DM who chose not to use the normal surge table. Sucks, but so it goes. The default table is mostly fine, the only real offender being the 2% Fireball.


If someone wanted to join a group on an adventure and they say that their usefulness comes from casting spells but there is chance I’ll launch a fireball at you guys as well, can I come. Would that group really want them to join? That is like saying, “hey guys, can I go to lunch with you? But be warned, I have covid.” Would that group really want them to tag along?

They may not have a choice. Adventuring is an incredibly dangerous profession, so most people choose more mundane work. That leaves adventurers with a limited selection of fellow companions. Would adventurers prefer a nice safe wizard or dragon sorcerer for their heavy artillery needs? Absolutely, but if the only guy available is the wild magic sorcerer, well, you make due with what you have or you go without. In the case of your lunch example it's less "should we bring Mr. covid with us?" and more "we're all starving and he's the only one with a car; let's invite him and just try to be careful."

[Tanarii]

It seems like in the last couple years I have been in groups where there has been at least one wild magic sorcerer. And although these are different people playing them at different tables, they always seem to have the same “look-at-me” personality.

They eagerly hope a spell will trigger a consequence (not just to them but to the whole party) and they constantly are asking the dms if their wild magic affects this or that. IÂ’ve played at tables with modified wild magic tables that have some serious results for the whole party if if mr-look-at-me roll a certain number.
Wild Magic surges are a class feature. Not any sort of spotlight hogging or attention grabbing. Players want them because they benefit from them. Even if they get a bad effect, they're still refreshing Tides of Chaos. But they're also minor risk for large payouts on the roll themselves, since the beneficial results are more common and generally superior to the negative effects.

Alternative / modified Wild Magic tables are typically terrible. They rarely match the ratio of fantastic : okay : harmless : harmful that the original table has on it.

If you're a risk averse person, or you've been exposed to variant Wild Magic Tables, sure, I can see where you end up wanting to rant. But don't mistake the players motivation for wanting to roll on the tables.

[Christew]

Like NecessaryWeevil said, people want to be able to use their class features. Unfortunately the wild sorcerer's major feature only happens at the DM's whim, so the wild sorcerer has to constantly ask (making themselves "mr-look-at-me" as you put it) or else never get to use their features. Would wild sorcerer players seem less attention-seeking if the chance to surge were hard-coded rather than being in the DM's hands?
This. If you play a Wild Magic Sorc because you are interested in having surges happen, your only recourse is to ask. The DM discretion gate is probably the culprit here.

[Yuroch Kern]

Perhaps presenting a list of alternative bloodlines might be the fix to the narrative. As far as I know, there are few options outside 3rd party, and some DMs are hesitant to play them. It generally only leaves the basic two. Expanding the list with DM approval will see Wild Magic, as awesome as it is, be one of many options instead of default Draconic blood.

[Kireban]

The main strength of WMS is the advantage it gains from tides of chaos, and without surges the class is really weak.
How is looking for surges any worst than barb screaming lame sentences about how he is StArTiNg TOooO RaAGgeeee?

[AttilatheYeon]

Perhaps presenting a list of alternative bloodlines might be the fix to the narrative. As far as I know, there are few options outside 3rd party, and some DMs are hesitant to play them. It generally only leaves the basic two. Expanding the list with DM approval will see Wild Magic, as awesome as it is, be one of many options instead of default Draconic blood.

There's also Storm in SCAG, Shadow, divine soul or some such name and storm again in Xanathars.

[Mellack]

It really seems you problem is less with the players of the WMS, and more with the class rules. They have to ask if surges trigger because it is in the rules that the GM decides. That is not much different than asking if a 19 hits the opponents AC. They are just asking the GM to describe the result of their actions. As to expanded surge tables, again those are the choice of the GM to use. I would consider it the same as if they decide to use a critical hit or critical fumble table.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The main strength of WMS is the advantage it gains from tides of chaos, and without surges the class is really weak.
How is looking for surges any worst than barb screaming lame sentences about how he is StArTiNg TOooO RaAGgeeee?

The barb screaming lame phrases never risks the party but I have personally seen a wild sorcerer nearly cause a TPK due to a surge backfiring. Once was fireball the next simply took himself out of the combat and we needed everyone for that fight.

The wild sorcerer should not have been a phb option. It should have been in a supplemental book so the DM can be more comfortable saying no. Furthermore surges should have had a mechanic other then the DM says so.

[Kireban]

The barb screaming lame phrases never risks the party but I have personally seen a wild sorcerer nearly cause a TPK due to a surge backfiring. Once was fireball the next simply took himself out of the combat and we needed everyone for that fight.

The wild sorcerer should not have been a phb option. It should have been in a supplemental book so the DM can be more comfortable saying no. Furthermore surges should have had a mechanic other then the DM says so.

Players should make a deal with the dm to roll d20 after every lvl1 spell or higher, and to roll surge after casting such spell while TOC on cooldown. No reason to depend on the dm for that.
And the chance for fireball is 1/50. It is neglectable.

[sithlordnergal]

As a player who adores the Wild Magic Sorcerer, and consequently someone who tries to find a Wand of Wonder whenever I can, its less of a "Hey look at me" sort of deal and more of a "I can't use this feature without asking the DM". As for the random effects, they're mostly good. If a fireball happens, it happens, no big deal right there. I can't speak for everyone, but I also tend to enjoy less serious games, so I pick classes that can cause some random chaos because I find it fun.

[Christew]

The wild sorcerer should not have been a phb option.
I kind of agree with this. Subsequent Sorcerer subclasses have felt more in line with standard than WMS.

Thought experiment: how would we have reacted to the DM gate on surges if it had originally been presented as UA?

[Lord Vukodlak]

And the chance for fireball is 1/50. It is neglectable.Thats what he said right before the fireball.

[Necroanswer]

Players should make a deal with the dm to roll d20 after every lvl1 spell or higher, and to roll surge after casting such spell while TOC on cooldown. No reason to depend on the dm for that.
And the chance for fireball is 1/50. It is neglectable.

There's more than just fireball. There's confusion, do 1d10 necrotic to everyone in 30' and randomly poison someone within 60'. And taking a 1/50 chance of turning a regular encounter into a TPK should not be "neglectable."

[Tanarii]

And the chance for fireball is 1/50. It is neglectable.
If you cast out every adventuring day and use a wild surge after every spell cast to refresh Tides of Chaos, the odds of experiencing at least one fireball by the time you hit level 5 is greater than 47%. And that's assuming you only fight solos, other wise you'll have more adventuring days and commensurately greater chance.

Of course, that's assuming an ideal situation for the wild mage ... the DM lets them control the wild surges or triggers it every time they've used Tides, and they cast one spell between each use of Tides of Chaos.

[Satori01]

A Fireball spell impacting a group of 3rd level adventurers is by no means a guaranteed TPK. Not every Fireball is average or higher damage. An 18 dmg Fireball is possible.

Also as no save DC is listed for the effects, I always assumed the Wild Magic surge uses the player's spell DC.

Not being at Max Q for your spell DC, is a tactical consideration.
Bend Luck means a Wild Mage, can still get spells to land with a non-max spell DC.

[MaxWilson]

This. If you play a Wild Magic Sorc because you are interested in having surges happen, your only recourse is to ask. The DM discretion gate is probably the culprit here.

Well, that plus the DM not realizing that they don't have to answer on a case-by-case basis. It's perfectly valid to give a player a guideline like, "As long as you haven't had a Wild Surge this evening, the answer is yes, go ahead and roll" or even "The answer is always yes, always roll."

But yes, the blame is 80%+ on WotC here.

[Christew]

Well, that plus the DM not realizing that they don't have to answer on a case-by-case basis. It's perfectly valid to give a player a guideline like, "As long as you haven't had a Wild Surge this evening, the answer is yes, go ahead and roll" or even "The answer is always yes, always roll."

But yes, the blame is 80%+ on WotC here.
Agreed. Like many of WotC's shortcomings, easily mitigated by a good DM.

[Amnestic]

As others have said, it's because the surges are at the DM discretion.

Change it to be something roll dependent, like the following, and they won't bother you as much:

Wild Magic Sorcerer rolls 1d20 on every non-cantrip cast. If the roll is equal-to-or-less than the spell's level, a Surge occurs.
Wild Magic Sorcerer automatically has a Surge on the next non-cantrip spell cast after using Tides of Chaos. They then regain use of Tides of Chaos.

And if fireball (which is the only real party-ending option on the table) is a concern just say..."no fireballs", change it to something else. Maybe make it Slow? Still detrimental but not a possible TPK on its own.

[moonfly7]

Warning, rant ahead:

It seems like in the last couple years I have been in groups where there has been at least one wild magic sorcerer. And although these are different people playing them at different tables, they always seem to have the same “look-at-me” personality.

They eagerly hope a spell will trigger a consequence (not just to them but to the whole party) and they constantly are asking the dms if their wild magic affects this or that. IÂ’ve played at tables with modified wild magic tables that have some serious results for the whole party if if mr-look-at-me roll a certain number.

In truth, I think I would play with a dreaded edge lord than a spotlight craving wild magic sorcerer. It just is exhausting at times and in reality, If someone wanted to join a group on an adventure and they say that their usefulness comes from casting spells but there is chance I’ll launch a fireball at you guys as well, can I come. Would that group really want them to join? That is like saying, “hey guys, can I go to lunch with you? But be warned, I have covid.” Would that group really want them to tag along?

I'm lucky to have never had that problem. The one time I played with a wild Magic sorcerer he was a 20 something half elf who started the game aged down to 14 because of a surge in his backstory. He was frightened of his own magic, and I think he only ever cast a leveled spell twice(game ended up falling apart so we only had around 6 sessions)
I've totally heard of what your talking about though, and I've met players who play chaotic stupid who would LOVE to get there hands on wild sorcerer to surge on purpose to be "lol so random". I just wanted to say that, while uncommon, the class CAN be played well and be fun to have around. But it does attract the bad players like flies.

[da newt]

I too have been subjected to the WMS who was more dangerous to the party than useful - but AL rules do not allow PvP or ostracizing a PC from the party, so we were hostage to their shenanigans.

I have also played with an excellent team tactical WMS.

It all depends on the player, but I agree the subclass can be a PITA (like chaotic stupid Barbarians or lawful stupid Paladins or my personal bias / trigger - tabaxi rogues). I despise any PC who is not a team player - this is my issue.

It all come down to what people want out of a campaign - some want to try to survive and win at the best of their ability using sound strategy and clever tactics - some are looking for fantasy/escapism with quite a bit of chaos and foolishness. There are many ways to D&D.

[OldTrees1]

We had an Ancients Paladin and a Wild Magic Sorcerer in the same group. Paladin protections + Wild Magic (at maximum frequency) mitigated the bad results and allowed us to see the chaotic flow of wild magic. By the end of the campaign we were all looking forward to each wild magic, even the rare Fireball. Actually, especially the free Fireball, because we would take 1/4th damage and melee enemies would take full damage.

[Tanarii]

It all come down to what people want out of a campaign - some want to try to survive and win at the best of their ability using sound strategy and clever tactics - some are looking for fantasy/escapism with quite a bit of chaos and foolishness. There are many ways to D&D.
Triggering surges is tactically sound. It's just a larger roll of the dice than say making an attack roll, because the consequences are more than simple failure.

The biggest problem is effects that affect the party. Some people are risk averse and they get mad when you force them to take participate in your risk taking. There's nothing wrong with that stance at all, and it's hardly surprised if they get annoyed with something that is written into the rules.

It'd be different if all the effects were personal to the sorcerer and they were risking only themselves. Then it'd be like a risk averse person getting annoyed because a sorcerer chose to run up and cast a touch spell that would lock down the battle, missed, and got splattered in response.

(It would also be different if it was a codified expectation for using any magic. Like psykers in 40k.)

[Satori01]

I find it an odd position that the largest complaint seems to be a class feature based on the idea of chaos...is too chaotic.

Kinda the point is it not?

Certainly the Wild Mage's ability needs to be discussed in session 0, so a general expectation can be set.... but leaving the activation as ultimately being DM fiat, means that a good DM, can balance narrative elements and considerations of fun, rather then being a computer like enforcer of rules.

Mandatory Minimum sentences can do a fair amount of societal damage, due to their lack of human discretion...the same can also be true for indiscriminate Wild Magic Surge use.

The question is on average, what is more harmful to a campaign...every Non Cantrip spell triggering a Wild Surge roll, or a haphazard application?

While the 5e Wild Surge Table is easy to use, I wonder if the class might not have been better served by a return to the 2e model, where the randomness in effect applied to the casters' spell characteristics: Range, Duration, Damage Dice etc.

The Psi Die from U/A could model this. Instead of a completely random and nonsensical effect that can end a campaign, maybe a Maximum roll on the Chaos Die indicates the damage dice for the spell goes up by one die type, the minimum result on the Chaos die shrinks the damage die.

Thus a 8d8 Fireball cast and controlled by the player can happen, or a 8d4 Fireball depending on luck.

For non damaging spells other attributes could be modified instead.

This would seem to solve the largest complaint regarding the subclass. It also requires WOTC to reverse their "No Revision" stance vis a vis the classes.

[Tanarii]

The question is on average, what is more damaging...every Non Cantrip spell triggering a Wild Surge roll, or a haphazard application?in terms of least to most damaging for wild surges my experience is:
Player Choice > DM consistent application > DM Haphazard application

But that's generally true for everything under DM control. Table variation is fine, but your players have to be able to get a read on you and feel like you're not just pulling things out of your bum.

[HappyDaze]

I also tend to enjoy less serious games, so I pick classes that can cause some random chaos because I find it fun.

As long as everyone is onboard with that, it's fine, and anybody's choice of race/class/background/alignment/whatever might impact the tone in ways that other players might not appreciate. However, I find that Wild Magic Sorcerers tend to hit the Bad Touch side of things too often for me (I prefer more serious games), so I ban them from my tables.

[Yakmala]

I get wanting your class abilities to trigger. That being said, my experience is very similar to the OP in that the majority of players I have encountered that are playing Wild Magic Sorcerers aren't craving the beneficial results of the wild magic surge table as much as they are craving the truly chaotic ones because they find them funny or disruptive or both.

And it's more than just the Fireball result. There are results that can confuse or poison the party, or results which incapacitate the Sorcerer for a turn or more, effectively removing them from a battle that the DM likely balanced around them being involved.

I've also found that the same types of players who gravitate towards Wild Magic Sorcerer are the types that attempt to get their hands on a Wand of Wonder. I had one player in a campaign that used that wand as his primary form of attack without ever positioning himself to lessen the potential consequences. Within two sessions, the other players were begging me to take the wand away or kick the player out.

[HappyDaze]

Within two sessions, the other players were begging me to take the wand away or kick the player out.

That can be handled in character just as easily. If the player of the disruptive character gets upset about it, boot them.

[Jamesps]

Players should make a deal with the dm to roll d20 after every lvl1 spell or higher, and to roll surge after casting such spell while TOC on cooldown. No reason to depend on the dm for that.
And the chance for fireball is 1/50. It is neglectable.

Keep in mind that 1/50 is something that will eventually happen given enough rolls.

I played a wild mage for a campaign that went 1-5. So far I've only fireballed the party once, and we were fortunate to already be 4th level when it happened. There was a non negligible chance that it could have hapened at level 1 or 2 and TPKed the party. I usually triggered a surge 2 times a session, with 4 sessions for that level spread that works out to a 15% chance of being personally responsible for a TPK or near TPK.

Personally I don't think wild magic is a big deal once you get to tier 2. By that point the party is strong enough to weather the effects, and the beneficial effects aren't game-breaking by that point either. Before that you're playing with fire.

[KorvinStarmast]

And if fireball (which is the only real party-ending option on the table) is a concern just say..."no fireballs", change it to something else. Maybe make it Slow? Still detrimental but not a possible TPK on its own.That's a fine idea. I'll see what our group thinks of that.

[Veldrenor]

And if fireball (which is the only real party-ending option on the table) is a concern just say..."no fireballs", change it to something else. Maybe make it Slow? Still detrimental but not a possible TPK on its own.

This too, there are a lot of great options for replacing Fireball (either permanently or until the party is strong enough to take a fireball). Our table uses Stinking Cloud.

[Yakmala]

That can be handled in character just as easily. If the player of the disruptive character gets upset about it, boot them.

I normally rule that PvP can only happen in my games when it is consensual. So I told the wand of wonder wielder that the next time his character harmed or debuffed other characters in the party via reckless wand of wonder use, he was giving his blanket consent for all other party members to engage in PvP with him as they saw fit. That got him to use his toy with more care.

[MrStabby]

I have never seen the problem in play, but I get the complaint.

Joining a game you give implicit concent to the DM to have your adversaries cast hostile spells on you. At no point do you grant that permission to your team mates unless you sign up to a PVP game.

There are certain characters, and the wild magic sorcerer players are not the only ones, that have characters designed to generate attention. The ones that start fights, the ones with a plot wrapped up tightly in their backstory... basically any character that is defended by "but that's what my character would do". Then there are the ones with no defensive capabilities - total glass cannons that make the game about themselves not only through what they do but also to demand attention to keep them alive. I can easily see how a wild magic sorcerer could appear to be one of these.

It has abilities that can damage the party and is therefore more likely to appeal to the kind of player that likes abilities that can harm their allies. I have only seen one in play; it wasnt a problem but I could really see why it might be one in a lot of games.

[Zuras]

Wild Magic is a problem because its class features drive the game in a specific direction, to a more chaotic free for all type of game, which can be enjoyable if the DM is skilled at failing forward and rolling with consequences of ridiculous player antics, or just annoying if the DM is trying to run a game with a different vibe (especially one with a tactical emphasis).

I personally hate Wild Magic Sorcerers and rarely allow wild magic surges outside of Mage duels (that is, if there is an opponent also casting spells), but in the grand scheme of things it’s not any worse than a player who wants to run a minionmancer necromancer in an urban social campaign.

It can be really terrible, but mainly because the players and DM aren’t on the same page about the story they’re trying to tell.

[Eunuchorn]

Our wild magic sorcerer picked it because she thinks she isn’t creative and sucks at “RP” (her words, not mine) so wanted something that would force interaction and events.
I personally love wild magic, it brings so much randomness to the campaign and can really change the storyline. (Fireball triggered during a chase scene in town from a simple detect thoughts to see where the person was running to)

My house rule is if a spell is cast; wild magic triggers.

[Hruken]

I'm a fan of the subclass. Had a player use it for level 3-8 or so. I told him his surges were at his whim, so he would do it every time he cast a leveled spell. And then we were all disappointed that it barely happened, so we changed the d20 to a varying die (similar to the psy die) that goes up when he surges, down every long rest. Made a surge happen maybe once a session.

The only bad things that happened when he surged was a poisoning of an ally towards the end of a fight and a 57-58 roll ended up starting some fires that hurt his allies and burnt down an old tower that the party was fighting in, which led to some interesting legal issues for the party. So I might be biased toward the awesome, like summoning a unicorn that assisted in killing intellect devourers.

[Tanarii]

I'm a fan of the subclass. Had a player use it for level 3-8 or so. I told him his surges were at his whim, so he would do it every time he cast a leveled spell. And then we were all disappointed that it barely happened, so we changed the d20 to a varying die (similar to the psy die) that goes up when he surges, down every long rest. Made a surge happen maybe once a session.
If he used Tides of Chaos, it should have happened automatically (as long as the player wanted it) after every spell. The d20 roll is not needed in that case. Or rather, it can trigger a 2nd surge from the same spell. But the Tides surge doesn't require a check, it just happens.

[Hruken]

If he used Tides of Chaos, it should have happened automatically (as long as the player wanted it) after every spell. The d20 roll is not needed in that case. Or rather, it can trigger a 2nd surge from the same spell. But the Tides surge doesn't require a check, it just happens.

Yeah, he didn't use Tides very often, but he could decide to trigger a guaranteed surge when he felt it appropriate/interesting. But every time he normally cast a leveled spell, regardless of tides being active or not, he would roll the check.

I also had a player request having to roll every time his awakened mink druid would cast a spell, but that almost never triggered a surge.

[Tanarii]

Yeah, he didn't use Tides very often, but he could decide to trigger a guaranteed surge when he felt it appropriate/interesting. But every time he normally cast a leveled spell, regardless of tides being active or not, he would roll the check.
That's skewing your view of the class then. I've had many wild mages in my campaign since I ruled it was standard to surge after every use of Tides, and most Sorc players use Tides frequently. The typical number of wild surges is probably about 50-75% of leveled spells cast IMX. And only as low as 50% if the sorc is chain casting spells with no attack roll spells in between.

[OldTrees1]

That's skewing your view of the class then. I've had many wild mages in my campaign since I ruled it was standard to surge after every use of Tides, and most Sorc players use Tides frequently. The typical number of wild surges is probably about 50-75% of leveled spells cast IMX. And only as low as 50% if the sorc is chain casting spells with no attack roll spells in between.

I have seen it in between.

We ruled the Sorc should roll every leveled spell. But the Tides Surge is something the DM gets to spend sometime before the next rest.

That worked out to 5% of spells + 1-2 wild surges per short rest.

[Monster Manuel]

If he used Tides of Chaos, it should have happened automatically (as long as the player wanted it) after every spell. The d20 roll is not needed in that case. Or rather, it can trigger a 2nd surge from the same spell. But the Tides surge doesn't require a check, it just happens.

Kind of, but not entirely. You get a use of Tides of Chaos for free, once per long rest. At any point before it refreshes (i.e. after a long rest), the DM might have you roll on the surge table after casting a spell of 1st level or higher, and this refreshes the use of Tides. It's not that you must surge after you use Tides, but that the DM can LET YOU surge at some point after using Tides, and that refreshes Tides. Technically, if the DM never lets you surge to refresh Tides, you might conceivably never get it back until you Long Rest. This would be sad, and is indicative of the primary flaw in the Wild Magic Sorc's design (the fact that the class features are totally DM-dependent), but a DM who's reluctant to allow Surges for whatever reason could result in a situation like what's described above.

And that's why (like others have said above) that you have to be attention-seeking, to an extent, to make use of one of the subclass' main features. When the player is saying "did I surge" after every spell, what they're really saying is "did I refresh Tides of Chaos".

I played an aasimar wild magic sorcerer for a bit. Played him as a scion of celestials who served a loki-like trickster figure, so instead of a divine soul sorc, his divine heritage manifested in chaos magic, which he kind of resented. Tried to be tactical about positioning and when he used his spells in preparation of a potential surge, and they almost never happened, without a specific nudge to the DM. Eventually, we just houseruled it to "roll whenever you want". Rolling with every spell was a problem, because I also wanted him to have Subtle metamagic, and having the possibility of turning into a houseplant while trying to surreptitiously use Suggestion was...unsubtle.

Honestly, letting the player choose when to refresh tides and trigger a surge would have gone a long way towards fixing issues with the subclass, and make it less of a pain for the other players at the table.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Looks around nervously

[Amnestic]

Honestly, letting the player choose when to refresh tides and trigger a surge would have gone a long way towards fixing issues with the subclass, and make it less of a pain for the other players at the table.

Activating Tides of Chaos constantly and surging every spell is the dream. This train has no brakes. Choo choo, it's off to Victory Town, population: every wild mage who are definitely cooler than the draconic sorcerers.

[Tanarii]

Kind of, but not entirely. You get a use of Tides of Chaos for free, once per long rest. At any point before it refreshes (i.e. after a long rest), the DM might have you roll on the surge table after casting a spell of 1st level or higher, and this refreshes the use of Tides. It's not that you must surge after you use Tides, but that the DM can LET YOU surge at some point after using Tides, and that refreshes Tides. Technically, if the DM never lets you surge to refresh Tides, you might conceivably never get it back until you Long Rest. This would be sad, and is indicative of the primary flaw in the Wild Magic Sorc's design (the fact that the class features are totally DM-dependent), but a DM who's reluctant to allow Surges for whatever reason could result in a situation like what's described above.

And that's why (like others have said above) that you have to be attention-seeking, to an extent, to make use of one of the subclass' main features. When the player is saying "did I surge" after every spell, what they're really saying is "did I refresh Tides of Chaos".
For sure, I'm assuming a DM that empowers the class, as opposed to nerfing it. I used to do the latter until I participated in some forum discussions on it and now I do the former. And wild surges themselves, along with the refresh of Tides of Chaos, are a pretty serious chunk the intended power of the subclass.

[Warlush]

Some people really hate just about everyone who plays a Paladin. They seem to always have an alignment related axe to grind.

Some players hate everyone who's played a rogue at their table. Why is it cool for you to steel from your party?

I've been hated for playing a Warlock. I tend to make everything creepy, in a campy Dad sort of way.

As long as you have to sit at a table with other people, stuff is gonna bother you. Maybe you should take this opportunity for a little self discovery.
Maybe you hate attention seekers because you feel a lil left out?

[DeadMech]

I got a wild magic sorcerer in my current party. At first I was pretty worried. It's not so bad though. She and the DM have made an arrangement for deciding when it goes off. Every casting of a level spell she rolls a d20. On a 1, a 10, or a 20 because she wanted it to happen more often. I don't feel like this is breaking the game....

But... we started play at level 6 so self immolation by fireball isn't a possible instant tpk. It's a funny story from our character's backstories of stuff hitting the fan while we were travelling together prior to the campaign.

For some reason she's REALLY excited about the eventuality of transforming into a potted plant. I don't get the appeal personally. But I'm embracing the shenanigans and chaos this time around. I went and picked one or two effects for my character to have some emotional connection to from their backstory.

[Deathtongue]

My very first Sorceradin for AL was a Devotion Paladin 6 / Wild Magic Sorcerer 10 (I stopped playing after they got to T4). I went this route due to the PHB + 1 rule and I already picked SCAG as my book. I never advertised the character's Wild Magic abilities and if I never rolled on the Wild Magic table I was relieved. Sometimes the DM noticed that I used Tides of Chaos or Bend Luck that I was a Wild Mage and started holding me to it from them, but I often went entire sessions without rolling on the table or even a d20.

And that suited me just fine.

People overhype the 'oh, you only get a Fireball rarely' result, but there are a lot of results that can still be very bad. I never triggered them, but I don't think my party would've been too appreciative if I had rolled the 'cast Levitate' result when I was concentrating on a Haste or a Twinned Protection from Evil and Good or a Fly.

I totally blame wizards for this screw-up, by the way. There are exactly two sorcerer subclasses in the PHB and Dragon Sorcerer simply doesn't fit a lot of concepts. Of course, I think the Sorcerer is, from a narrative perspective, a bad and redundant class in the first class that should've been retired after the Warlock came out.

[Amnestic]

People overhype the 'oh, you only get a Fireball rarely' result, but there are a lot of results that can still be very bad. I never triggered them, but I don't think my party would've been too appreciative if I had rolled the 'cast Levitate' result when I was concentrating on a Haste or a Twinned Protection from Evil and Good or a Fly.


Wild Surge concentration spells don't remove your previous concentration per the errata (https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/PH-Errata-V1.pdf).

[Yuroch Kern]

There's also Storm in SCAG, Shadow, divine soul or some such name and storm again in Xanathars.

Yes, not much. I refluffed a little of Draconic to be a Abyssal/Infernal bloodline, some of the Wild Magic to a Fey Bloodline, and I don't remember if there is one, but created the Undead bloodline too. Of course Wild Magic being chaotic, I'm not generally surprised that it is the playstyle.

[Pex]

Warning, rant ahead:

It seems like in the last couple years I have been in groups where there has been at least one wild magic sorcerer. And although these are different people playing them at different tables, they always seem to have the same “look-at-me” personality.

They eagerly hope a spell will trigger a consequence (not just to them but to the whole party) and they constantly are asking the dms if their wild magic affects this or that. IÂ’ve played at tables with modified wild magic tables that have some serious results for the whole party if if mr-look-at-me roll a certain number.

In truth, I think I would play with a dreaded edge lord than a spotlight craving wild magic sorcerer. It just is exhausting at times and in reality, If someone wanted to join a group on an adventure and they say that their usefulness comes from casting spells but there is chance I’ll launch a fireball at you guys as well, can I come. Would that group really want them to join? That is like saying, “hey guys, can I go to lunch with you? But be warned, I have covid.” Would that group really want them to tag along?

Fortunately the Wild Sorcerer in my Barbarian game is not like this, but I get your point. Some players just want to be donkey cavities. They want to be disruptive causing chaos. In an online game I'm in it's the druid, purposely playing evil, and willfully causing collateral friendly fire damage with his area effect spells. He eventually agreed to stop doing that, but I was ready to quit the game after having attacked him myself when he wouldn't stop after we repeatedly told him to. He still isn't a team player though. The game is still more fun for me than not but just barely.

If the player is just below the line of your tolerance then you need to decide for yourself if the game is still fun for you more than it's not. If the player continues to cross the line it needs to be discussed out of character. Either he agrees to knock it off, he quits, or you quit. There is no other solution. If the DM enbables or encourages the situation it'll mean you will have to quit.