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skywalker
2007-10-28, 11:10 PM
I'm starting a cleric off at low levels(just made level three) and I'm looking around for good feats to take.

I know that divine metamagic is pretty much the be all end all of clerical feats, but my DM is scared of things he deems powerful(he banned the warlock :smallconfused:) and the typical solution(talk it over with your dm) isn't available in this case.

So what I'm asking for is what other feats are good ones for clerics to take?

SilveryCord
2007-10-28, 11:20 PM
A few ideas:

Rapid Metabolism (Psionic, in SRD)
Extra Turning
Divine Might
Divine Vengeance

bugsysservant
2007-10-28, 11:20 PM
Probably won't help much, but if your DM banned warlock on the basis of being too powerful, he has a really skewed perception of what powerful is, and its highly probable that you could slip in DMM under the radar. Let me geuss, he thinks wizards are crappy because they're squishy, right? :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, what are you looking to do? If you want to be a Mellee CoDZilla type, fighter type feats are good. Metamagic is good for any full spellcaster, and since you are just barely able to cast 2nd level spells, try Touch of Healing (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Touch_Of_Healing,all) to celebrate. This really helps with the brunt of out of combat healing, especially when combined with the Vigor spells from the Spell Compendium.

Dreyden
2007-10-28, 11:26 PM
Personally, provided you have a decent charisma and aren't aiming for any other Divine feat, I prefer Sacred Boost from Complete Divine over Touch of Healing. Touch of Healing is pretty situational, but Sacred Boost will be useful if you end fights with people wounded, even just a little.

The_Snark
2007-10-29, 12:04 AM
If you're a warrior cleric, Power Attack is pretty valuable (although useless at level 1).

Divine Spell Power is an oft-overlooked way for a high-Charisma cleric to increase caster level.

Metamagic feats can be good too; I reccomend Smiting Spell at level 3, since the only other good one usable at this level is Extend Spell, and it'd be fairly useless at this level.

leperkhaun
2007-10-29, 01:03 AM
Melee - power attack and similar feats

If you know you are fighting against undead, there is a feat that you spend an extra turn attempt any undead you turn are destroyed instead of turned even if they have enough HD to not be destroyed.

There are also feats that allow you to turn other critters, outsiders and elementals and such. if you are healing and not doing alot of turning, Sacred boost is good.

Domain spotinaiaty is a great feat, and depending on your doman you can get something like converting prepared spells to say heal/teleport/implosian....

Temp
2007-10-29, 01:19 AM
Power Attack is a given.

Scribe Scroll is a good feat to have if you're given time to craft.

Knock-down is great if you can spare three feats (probably not likely, but maybe worth mentioning, no?)

Standard Melee feats (Leap Attack, Shock Trooper) are good.

Holy Warrior is good at higher levels, especially for Archer-types (if you're going that way)

Eschew Materials/Somatic Weaponry depending on how strict your DM is.

Touch of Healing is nice if your party expects you to keep them healed and you expect spells to spare afterward.

Kizara
2007-10-29, 01:52 AM
Power Attack is a given.

Scribe Scroll is a good feat to have if you're given time to craft.

Knock-down is great if you can spare three feats (probably not likely, but maybe worth mentioning, no?)

Standard Melee feats (Leap Attack, Shock Trooper) are good.

Holy Warrior is good at higher levels, especially for Archer-types (if you're going that way)

Eschew Materials/Somatic Weaponry depending on how strict your DM is.

Touch of Healing is nice if your party expects you to keep them healed and you expect spells to spare afterward.

Where is holy warrior and touch of healing?

Also, where is Sacred Boost (earlier post)?

Finally, just an FYI, the vigor spells are also in Cdivine, I believe. (its ethier that or Cadventurer)

leperkhaun
2007-10-29, 01:55 AM
sacred boost is in Complete Divine.

the Vigor spells are also in the spell compendium.

Miles Invictus
2007-10-29, 02:01 AM
The PHB2 has a feat chain that, among other things, gives you new uses for Turn attempts.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-10-29, 02:07 AM
Okay, first off, you can't blame your DM for getting rid of Divine Metamagic (it's really abusable). I ban it in my own games, and I allow a pretty high level of power from the players. Heck, CORE ONLY you're already just about the best already. There really isn't any reason for him to have banned the Warlock though :smallannoyed:

Complete Champion gives a few good options, including things like Touch of Healing (makes out of combat healing more affordable, allowing you to heal allies up to half total hp for free with no limit, AND giving you +1 CL for healing spells), and Holy Warrior (A reserve feat that gives you a bonus to damage based on the level of the spell kept in reserve).

There's also Divine Spell Power (Complete Divine), Power Attack (PHB), Elder Giant Magic (Secrets of Xen'drik), Extra Turning (PHB), Scribe Scroll (PHB), Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion), Law Devotion (Complete Champion) to name a few. Smiting Spell, Reach Spell, Silent Spell, Quicken Spell, and other metamagics are all useful for obvious reasons.

Extra Turning is really great. Lots of cleric builds take it multiple times. It's very useful when you have things like Law Devotion eating up tons of turns.

Also, DON'T overlook Elder Giant Magic! It will give you +3 CL if you take a couple extra rounds casting, which is great for spells you're casting out of combat.

Riffington
2007-10-29, 04:58 AM
I like Mobile Spellcaster for clerics.
It helps make up for the touch range of some nice spells (including healing), as well as for any armor penalty to movement.

mostlyharmful
2007-10-29, 06:32 AM
Craft Wondrous Item is good for making money and turning out some of the basic stuff your party will need if your DM is stingy on the PC specific loot.

Eschew Materials/Somatic Casting have already been said.

Extend spell is great and not just for combat buffs.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-10-29, 06:44 AM
I like Mobile Spellcaster for clerics.
It helps make up for the touch range of some nice spells (including healing), as well as for any armor penalty to movement.

Even I haven't heard of that feat. What's it from? :smallconfused:

(Seriously, people, providing sources makes everything soooooo much easier for everyone, and it takes you a coupla words. Come on)

Riffington
2007-10-29, 06:57 AM
Complete Adventurer. (best sourcebook as far as I'm concerned, but I'm biased) With a DC 20+spell level check, take a standard action to move and cast a standard action spell. You can take a higher DC to cast defensively, but you'll still provoke via the movement (unless you get tumble).

OneWinged4ngel
2007-10-29, 07:52 AM
Complete Adventurer. (best sourcebook as far as I'm concerned, but I'm biased) With a DC 20+spell level check, take a standard action to move and cast a standard action spell. You can take a higher DC to cast defensively, but you'll still provoke via the movement (unless you get tumble).

Huh, can't believe I never noticed that. :smallconfused:

So if I understand this right, you can double your move speed (or use any more esoteric move actions should you need to for whatever reason) and still cast. Way to screw the melee men even more. Now they're going to have way more trouble getting a charge off =P

serok42
2007-10-29, 08:17 AM
Divine Defiance from the Fiendish Codex II (The Hells one)

Lets you spend a turn attempt to counter an enemies spell as an immediate action. I believe you need to actually have something to counter it with though (but keep dispel magic memorized at all times)

I'm about to start playing a cleric that has this feat. I think it will come in handy. :smallbiggrin:

Alyorbase
2007-10-29, 08:27 AM
I don't know what everyone else thinks about this, but depending on how good your domain spells are, I like Domain Spontaneity from Complete Divine...you pick a domain when you take the feat, and then you can blow a turning check to be able to spontaneously cast that domain's spells in the same way you would spontaneously cast Cure/Inflict spells. Good luck :smallbiggrin:

skywalker
2007-10-29, 12:13 PM
Hey, yeah, I never said Divine Metamagic wasn't overpowered, I just expected to get 30 posts saying "divine metamagic" if I didn't specify.

It is in fact a warrior, a cleric of Kord, no less, and so I am looking into more melee feats. Extra turning and power attack were my level 1 feats, they are nice feats.

The craft feats aren't going to come into play, my dm's grasp of the rules isn't strong enough for that. Eschew materials also probably won't come into play. Are metamagic feats that good without Divine Metamagic?

How high a charisma do you need for divine spell power?

I'm a devotee of the OW4 philosophy that healing is best done out of combat(which really, really pisses my party members off) so a wand of lesser vigor is never leaving his belt.

Domain spontaneity seems nice, my domains are strength and luck, some of those spells would be nice to cast more than once per day.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-10-29, 01:03 PM
Hey, yeah, I never said Divine Metamagic wasn't overpowered, I just expected to get 30 posts saying "divine metamagic" if I didn't specify.

It is in fact a warrior, a cleric of Kord, no less, and so I am looking into more melee feats. Extra turning and power attack were my level 1 feats, they are nice feats.

The craft feats aren't going to come into play, my dm's grasp of the rules isn't strong enough for that. Eschew materials also probably won't come into play. Are metamagic feats that good without Divine Metamagic?

How high a charisma do you need for divine spell power?

I'm a devotee of the OW4 philosophy that healing is best done out of combat(which really, really pisses my party members off) so a wand of lesser vigor is never leaving his belt.

Domain spontaneity seems nice, my domains are strength and luck, some of those spells would be nice to cast more than once per day.

Well, there ARE good ways to heal IN combat, if you happen to have them... it's just not a totally necessary party role. Healing Belt at low levels, Heal whenever you have it, and Greater Healing Armor Infusion from the artificer at low levels are all great (particularly greater healing armor, clocking in at 6d8+30 hp healing as swift *or free* actions for 50gp at level 3). And of course, all those swift/immediate ones, like Close Wounds.

Keld Denar
2007-10-29, 01:59 PM
Augmented Healing will get you a lot more bang for your buck. It makes cure light wounds (mass) into a pretty decent nova of positive energy.

Since you are down with the Brawler, and you already have Power Attack and Extra Turning, look into Divine Might, from Complete Warrior I'm pretty sure. It adds Cha bonus to damage at the cost of a turn attempt. If your cha bonus is decent, that can be worth it. It is of note that it carries that damage over for all attacks in a round, so if you can can pull off itatives (Divine Power) and other bonus attacks (Haste/Rightous Wrath of the Faithful), you get more mileage out of each turn attempt spent.

Divine Spell Power (Complete Divine) allows you to make a turn attempt with a special +3 bonus. You add your turning level adjustment to your caster level for a spell you cast that round. With buffs (cha bumps, circlet of persuasion, rod of defiance, etc) you can make it so that you average a +12 or so on the check. That means you get CL+1 at least automatically, up to +4 with a roll of 9 or higher. This combines with some cheese such as orange ioun stone (DMG), bead of karma(DMG), and other +CL modifiers to allow medium level clerics to do some pretty significant buffing (such as CL 20 Greater Magic Weapon(+5) or Magic Vestiments(+5) at about 12th level) or significant encounter ending (CL 20+ Holy Word at level 13 isn't hard, and completely ends anything that isn't good with less than 15-17 HD or so).

Domain Spontinaity (Complete Divine) works well with your Str domain, as you can cast Enlarge Person more than once a day. Its also really good for clerics with travel domain, since they can then cast fly or dim door multiple times, but you don't have that one. Luck Domain, not so much on the spells.

Also look into the Domain Devotion feats from Complete Champion. They do all kinds of useful stuff.

daggaz
2007-10-29, 03:39 PM
It is in fact a warrior, a cleric of Kord, no less, and so I am looking into more melee feats. Extra turning and power attack were my level 1 feats, they are nice feats.

So.... how did you end up with two feats at level one as a cleric? Kord doesn't have any domains which grant free feats.. oh..wait, scrub that, you must have a flaw I suppose..

Keld Denar
2007-10-29, 03:44 PM
So.... how did you end up with two feats at level one as a cleric? Kord doesn't have any domains which grant free feats.. oh..wait, scrub that, you must have a flaw I suppose..

Probably human? Kord is a human god, therefore it wouldn't be an off-base assumption. Last time I checked, us humans get an extra feat at first level. I picked Improved Initiative. Keeps the ninja-posters away!

The_Snark
2007-10-29, 03:46 PM
So.... how did you end up with two feats at level one as a cleric? Kord doesn't have any domains which grant free feats.. oh..wait, scrub that, you must have a flaw I suppose..

By being human?

Divine Spell Power (Complete Divine) isn't really useful unless you can reliably score at least a 13 with a Charisma check, so it may not be the best choice for you.

Cleave isn't a bad feat at low levels, especially combined with the Strength domain's granted power.

Divine Might (Complete Warrior) will let you expend a turn attempt to add your Charisma bonus to damage for a round, which could be useful if you have more than 14 Charisma.

Touch of Healing (Complete Champion) is good, but I have the feeling your DM won't allow it, if he banned the warlock.

skywalker
2007-10-31, 01:17 AM
Well, there ARE good ways to heal IN combat, if you happen to have them... it's just not a totally necessary party role. Healing Belt at low levels, Heal whenever you have it, and Greater Healing Armor Infusion from the artificer at low levels are all great (particularly greater healing armor, clocking in at 6d8+30 hp healing as swift *or free* actions for 50gp at level 3). And of course, all those swift/immediate ones, like Close Wounds.

My compy died while I was responding last night.

Unfortunately, and at the risk of sounding like I just come here to complain, my DM has a poor grasp on the wealth by level rules, such that I can choose between a healing belt or a wand of lesser vigor(at level 3). Further, I'm the only person who wants to play an artificer, and was talked out of that so the party would have more melee characters. Those others I'm totally game for, they're just a bit far off.

I'm slowly going through everything mentioned in this thread to see which ones I like, thanks for everything to everyone, just haven't had the time to say, "oh, hey, yeah, that one is the one for me."

Toliudar
2007-10-31, 03:38 AM
I'd actually suggest looking ahead with this character towards a prestige class, and picking a prereq feat for him/her now. With potentially only one more feat slot to take care of such things, now is the time to plan this move.

Leon
2007-10-31, 06:45 AM
Cleave isn't a bad feat at low levels, especially combined with the Strength domain's granted power.
.

a High Cha and Great Cleave(age) will get you further

Saph
2007-10-31, 07:25 AM
Unfortunately, and at the risk of sounding like I just come here to complain, my DM has a poor grasp on the wealth by level rules, such that I can choose between a healing belt or a wand of lesser vigor(at level 3).

Definitely go for Touch of Healing then. The main drawback with using wands for out-of-combat healing is that it costs money, and if the DM is stingy with wealth-by-level, this'll cut into your equipment budget.

Besides, there's something pretty cool about being able to heal wounded people all day long at will. Kind of makes you into the ultimate battlefield medic.

Otherwise, as Toliudar says, look for a prestige class you want and take a feat for that.

- Saph

Keld Denar
2007-10-31, 07:43 AM
a High Cha and Great Cleave(age) will get you further

You should be shot for that pun....several times.

There aren't too many good martial cleric pclasses in Complete Divine. Lots of good caster ones, but not so many martial ones that advance spellcasting. That said, your BAB is irrelivent if you cast Divine Powah, but that shouldn't be an everyday occurance. I don't have Complete Champion, however I hear there is some good stuff in there. Something like Ordained Champion maybe? I haven't actually seen the class, but I hear good things. Worth a look at least.

You'll get more use out of the wand of lesser vigor than the belt of healing, at your level. By the time you run out of charges, you should be high enough level that you can get more wands, or get several belts of healing to trade out and heal ooc with.

As another alternative to either, buy or craft Pearls of Power 1. They are 1000 g each, and you can cast and call back a single lesser vigor multiple times out of combat. Crafting 5 costs 2500g, 100xp and a single week. The DMG says that the CL to craft a PoP is 17 for all of them, but that's just stupid. PoP1s would not exist, because what caster at 17th level is worried about running out of 1st level spells? A good rule of thumb would be the caster level needed to cast a given spell level, (1st for 1st level, 3rd for 2nd level, 5th for 3rd level, etc) or that level +1 or 2 (2nd or 3rd for 1st level, 4th or 5th for 2nd level, etc). (This is houserule territory, but not a HUGE rules rewrite)

The nice thing about PoPs is they use your caster level, so while a wand of lesser vigor would heal 11, a PoP recalled lesser vigor would heal 16 by CL5. Plus, since its a daily renewable resource like spells, you can burn all of your pearls at the end of each day for supplimental healing. You can also hand them out to the wizard or other prepared caster for passing out daily buffs (like Ectoplasmic Armor for +9 AC vs incorp touchs)

As a prepared caster, you can NEVER have too many Pearls of Power. Ever.

skywalker
2007-10-31, 04:19 PM
Yeah, okay, after receiving advice pertaining to PRCs, I am now re-casting this thread as an open call for PRC suggestions for a:

neutral good human cleric of Kord with all stats above 12, and an eye for keeping the power level out of the stratosphere.

I will summarily rename the thread to something more appropriate.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-31, 04:32 PM
If you're a warrior cleric, Power Attack is pretty valuable (although useless at level 1).

Divine Spell Power is an oft-overlooked way for a high-Charisma cleric to increase caster level.

Metamagic feats can be good too; I reccomend Smiting Spell at level 3, since the only other good one usable at this level is Extend Spell, and it'd be fairly useless at this level.

Can you even take power attack at level one?

Sucrose
2007-10-31, 06:17 PM
Can you even take power attack at level one?

Yep, just need Strength greater than or equal to 13. It's just useless until you have BAB, and not that spectacular until you have a lot of it.

Leon
2007-10-31, 10:37 PM
Complete Champion has the Sanctified One, one of the types is Kord
It has a coupleof cool things, most are 1/day things but can be taken multiple times but one of them isnt and the capstone is a choice of 3 24hr buffs

Toliudar
2007-10-31, 11:11 PM
Because clerics are already so good, I think that they've been careful not to offer too many great prestige classes for them. Radiant Servant (CDiv) is out. Stormlord (also CDiv) could potentially be reshaped from Talos to Kord.

Sacred Exorcist has fairly easy requirements, is accessible after level 7, and while the powers aren't overwhelming, you're losing pretty much nothing in the trade.

Most others, you're either giving up combat ability or spellcasting, which is gonna be the fabulous one-two of your character.

skywalker
2007-10-31, 11:16 PM
Because clerics are already so good, I think that they've been careful not to offer too many great prestige classes for them. Radiant Servant (CDiv) is out. Stormlord (also CDiv) could potentially be reshaped from Talos to Kord.

Sacred Exorcist has fairly easy requirements, is accessible after level 7, and while the powers aren't overwhelming, you're losing pretty much nothing in the trade.

Most others, you're either giving up combat ability or spellcasting, which is gonna be the fabulous one-two of your character.

Yeah, I'm not really too into the flavor of Sacred Exorcist. Is Stormlord that PRC where you don't lose any caster levels? I think that was one of those fun ones. I will look into this ordained champion(?) and sanctified one. Any other good ones? Any more feats?

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-01, 12:16 AM
I recommend ordained champion from complete champion and I'm fairly certain Kord would endorse it as well. In 5 levels you only gain 3 casting levels but have full BAB, good will and fort saves, you can channel spells through your weapon, smite just about anyone and get some other nifty beating oriented abilities. You can also swap out domain powers for fighter feats if they aren't doing as much as you'd like.

Good times

Grynning
2007-11-01, 02:47 AM
Wow...I need to buy complete Champion, apparently.

Also, BoED has a few good things, I know a lot of people hate it (and I think most of the spells in it are crap), but some of the exalted feats are pretty neat. A lot of them are more flavor-oriented, though.

Keld Denar
2007-11-01, 08:10 AM
skywalker, what have you decided on so far? I know what you had initially, and made some suggestions, but I could offer more if you pick a direction you'd like to go in. If you want to go more martially, Ordained Champion with the feat Divine Might seems like a good direction. Even if you do go that way, consider Divine Spell Power. Its good for increasing your caster level for buffs, which is a good part of what clerics do. To use it reliably, you'd have to invest a little in +cha items, which synergizes well with Divine Might. The caster level bump could make the difference between CL7 Greater Magic Weapon (+1) and CL8 Greater Magic Weapon (+2) or any similar such buff.

Good luck and good gaming!

skywalker
2007-11-01, 11:27 AM
skywalker, what have you decided on so far? I know what you had initially, and made some suggestions, but I could offer more if you pick a direction you'd like to go in. If you want to go more martially, Ordained Champion with the feat Divine Might seems like a good direction. Even if you do go that way, consider Divine Spell Power. Its good for increasing your caster level for buffs, which is a good part of what clerics do. To use it reliably, you'd have to invest a little in +cha items, which synergizes well with Divine Might. The caster level bump could make the difference between CL7 Greater Magic Weapon (+1) and CL8 Greater Magic Weapon (+2) or any similar such buff.

Good luck and good gaming!

Well, the cleric is more martially oriented, so that's the direction I'm leaning, but I also want to take this opportunity to explore spellcasting as much as possible(since I don't get the opportunity often). I'm thinking about divine might, domain spontaneity, touch of healing sounds good although I've never seen the feat, we have a lot of encounters and people get hit alot, so that'll probably be this level's feat.

I'm trying not to lose caster levels and I've always heard that going straight cleric can be just as good a choice as PRC'ing. My next feat would probably be divine spell power, and then divine might at 9, I have to see Ordained Champion before I go crashing headlong into it, so I suppose that's that.

I was just thinking maybe somebody out there who hadn't spoken yet had some good advice.

Rogue 7
2007-11-01, 12:34 PM
Skywalker, funnily enough I'm ALSO playing a NG cleric of Kord with the Strength and Luck domains. Great minds think alike, eh?

For prestige class, I love the concept of the Warpriest (C Divine). It's essentially an uber-army chaplain, who can still kick tail in combat. Something like the Space Marine Chaplains from Warhammer 40K if you know what I'm talking about. They're only half-casters, so power shouldn't be a problem.