Mystadin

[Maat Mons]

Today, for several hours straight, I worked to try to find something I could do with the Shugenja class that actually appealed to me.

I failed. Utterly.

Now, I'm looking to create a build outline for something non-Shugenja-based, utilizing the best theme I came up with in my Shugenja-based brainstorming.

This isn't for anything in particular. So for "allowed books," ... well I've already used super-obscure WotC-published content, so to avoid being hypocritical, I'll have to say that anything WotC-published is fair game. (Okay, maybe Dragonlance Campaign Setting isn't quite "super obscure," but I wouldn't call it common.)

I'm also using Dragon Magazine Compendium, which should either argue for all "Official Licensed Product" books being allowed, or for all Dragon material being allowed, but I think I'm going to be a little hypocritical, and ask people to avoid both of those ... except when they contain something really cool.



Faux Shugenjarai

Paladin 2 / Mystic 18 (or equivalent casting PrCs)

Fluff Paladin like Samurai, but keep Paladin mechanics
Fluff Mystic like Shugenja, but keep Mystic mechanics

Feats
H:
1: Serenity
3:
6:
9:
12:
15:
18:



So what would be some good full-divine progression PrCs, and how would you fluff them to feel Asian?

I'm sorry to dump random tasks on you guys (actually, I'm not), but I feel like I've kind of worn out the D&D-character-building part of my brain for today.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Your BAB won't much matter due to Divine Power, but you can't lose any more caster levels and still get 9ths by 20th level.

Sacred Exorcist could easily work, there's a lot of evil spirits in the lore of what you're going for. Once you reach its 4th level it meets its own spellcasting prerequisite and you don't need to keep Dismissal as a spell known. This gives you Turn Undead for powering Divine Metamagic or other divine/devotion feats.

Divine Oracle is decent, and four levels of it is really good for a melee character. Someone with knowledge of the unknowable fits with just about any culture. Say you visited the Frog God's Fane in CS to get its feat prerequisite for gold instead of spending a feat on it.

Contemplative is always useful, especially considering Mystic automatically gets domain spells as additional spells known with no 1/day limit. Someone who spends a lot of time in meditation contemplating the whatever is also fitting.

Paragnostic Apostle can be reflavored to fit any setting, and it's good for filler levels with lite prerequisites.

So something like Paladin 2/ Mystic 3/ Divine Oracle 4/ Paragnostic Apostle 1/ Sacred Exorcist 4/ Contemplative 6 maybe? With the Frog God's Fane you're spending a total of zero feats on prerequisites for that.


What domains did you have in mind? The best ones for spells known are probably Cold, Force, Slime, and Time.

[Maat Mons]

Contemplative would help with the difficulties I'm having making up my mind on domains. And the poison, immunity, disease immunity, and timeless body have a Monk-ish feel that I kind of like.

Divine Oracle doesn't look bad, but it it all that useful for a low-Dex character?

Sacred Exorcist would free me up from having to use the Sun domain to acquire Turn Undead. The internet seems to indicate that possession by spirits was a thing in Japanese folklore. My recolection of the undead from Oriental Adventures is that they were all very silly, but I guess that doesn't have to stop a warrior from training specifically to defeat them. Oni are Evil Outsiders, so that works fine too.



Some possible domains I'd been considering

Knowledge: People speak highly of Knowledge Devotion.
Necromancy: Doesn't seem like a good fit at all, but technically can be combined with Sacred Exorcist to have both Turn Undead and Rebuke Undead.
Pride: Rerolling 1s on saves seems like a good combo with adding my Wisdom bonus to saves. And shouldn't a samurai be proud?
Sun: Would give me Turn Undead, in case I decided not to go Sacred Exorcist.
Travel: Dimension Door, Teleport, and Greater Teleport are tempting. And it could go with a sort of wandering warrior theme.
War: Pretty fitting for a samurai. But mostly I was wondering if Holy Warrior would be worth it.



More thinking on my feats:

H: Power Attack
1: Zen Archery
3: Serenity
6: Improved Bull Rush
9: Shock Trooper
12: ?
15: Leap Attack
18: ?

I'm not going to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (katana), because I don't want to use it 1-handed.

If I'm going to do a DMM(Persist) build ... well, ranged combat was at best a minor side concern, so I can ditch Zen Archery. But that would still leave me either not getting Divine Metamagic until 18th level, or not getting Leap Attack until 18th level. Though, I guess Leap Attack was pretty late anyway. More relevantly, Shock Trooper would get pushed back to 15th level.

I could maybe go with Quicken Spell and Rapid Metamagic, but that wouldn't work on Divine Power until I'm level 17. Or, I guess I could go Quicken Spell and Divine Metamagic (Quicken Spell), but if I get Turn Undead from Sacred Exorcist, I'm not getting DMM until level 12.

[Anthrowhale]

You might consider Hengeyokai (which is LA+0 humanoid with the shapechanger subtype in the dragon magazine update) rather than human. Aside from flavor and an alternate form, this also provides access to the Transformation domain which has a quite impressive list of spells. Amongst forms, Sparrow is particularly nice as it provides access to Fine size. Perhaps that's not fitting to a Samurai though. Racoon Dog provides +2 Str while Badger provides +2 Con and a burrow speed.

Prestige Paladin 2 costs a feat and comes online later, but it gives you a level of spellcasting. A feat is usually a good trade for a level of spellcasting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Contemplative would help with the difficulties I'm having making up my mind on domains. And the poison, immunity, disease immunity, and timeless body have a Monk-ish feel that I kind of like.

Divine Oracle doesn't look bad, but it it all that useful for a low-Dex character?

Sacred Exorcist would free me up from having to use the Sun domain to acquire Turn Undead. The internet seems to indicate that possession by spirits was a thing in Japanese folklore. My recolection of the undead from Oriental Adventures is that they were all very silly, but I guess that doesn't have to stop a warrior from training specifically to defeat them. Oni are Evil Outsiders, so that works fine too.



Some possible domains I'd been considering

Knowledge: People speak highly of Knowledge Devotion.
Necromancy: Doesn't seem like a good fit at all, but technically can be combined with Sacred Exorcist to have both Turn Undead and Rebuke Undead.
Pride: Rerolling 1s on saves seems like a good combo with adding my Wisdom bonus to saves. And shouldn't a samurai be proud?
Sun: Would give me Turn Undead, in case I decided not to go Sacred Exorcist.
Travel: Dimension Door, Teleport, and Greater Teleport are tempting. And it could go with a sort of wandering warrior theme.
War: Pretty fitting for a samurai. But mostly I was wondering if Holy Warrior would be worth it.



More thinking on my feats:

H: Power Attack
1: Zen Archery
3: Serenity
6: Improved Bull Rush
9: Shock Trooper
12: ?
15: Leap Attack
18: ?

I'm not going to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (katana), because I don't want to use it 1-handed.

If I'm going to do a DMM(Persist) build ... well, ranged combat was at best a minor side concern, so I can ditch Zen Archery. But that would still leave me either not getting Divine Metamagic until 18th level, or not getting Leap Attack until 18th level. Though, I guess Leap Attack was pretty late anyway. More relevantly, Shock Trooper would get pushed back to 15th level.

I could maybe go with Quicken Spell and Rapid Metamagic, but that wouldn't work on Divine Power until I'm level 17. Or, I guess I could go Quicken Spell and Divine Metamagic (Quicken Spell), but if I get Turn Undead from Sacred Exorcist, I'm not getting DMM until level 12.



You can start taking Divine Oracle at 6th level, even having lost caster levels. You can't take Sacred Exorcist until you can cast 4th level spells, and you can't take Contemplative until 11th level. Divine Oracle is mostly just a filler class, a way to advance your spellcasting while gaining class features, same for Paragnostic Apostle.

If you make an Elf or Half-Elf, you can dip Seeker of the Misty Isle for the Travel domain and to gain Jump as a class skill, so you can get Leap Attack a lot sooner. It requires Survival ranks, which you can gain as a class skill with a Ruathar dip.


Keep in mind that your domain choices are primarily for additional spells known, as a Mystic isn't limited to casting one spell per level per day form a given domain. You'll gain the domain spells as normal spells known in addition to however many you'll get from your Mystic levels.

The Knowledge domain isn't all that great, that's why people replace it with the Knowledge Devotion feat. Everyone's build always has it because Cloistered Cleric gains it for free as a third domain. Considering every domain you gain is nine more spells known, I'd say don't replace any with a devotion feat. If you want devotion feats just gain them as feats.

The Sun domain doesn't grant the ability to turn undead, it just lets you upgrade a single use of turn undead to be more powerful when it's used once per day.

The Pride and War and Sun domains don't really have very good spells. The Necromancy domain's spells you probably wouldn't ever cast, so it would be a bit of a waste.

The Travel domain is a superb choice, considering the spells it grants. I'd take that one along with Time for sure, and whatever else gets you some good spells known. Only get Necromancy if you're getting DMM: Persist, of course. The Destiny domain is extremely good if you DMM: Persist its 9th level spell.

While a Mystic can't pick the Magic domain, there's nothing preventing you from gaining that domain via Contemplative or similar. With that you can use wands of wizard spells, namely Wraithstrike (which is still a swift action to use from a wand per the Rules Compendium) which means you won't even need to take Shock Trooper or Improved Bull Rush. Just put a wand of that in a wand chamber of your weapon and you're all set.


For feats, definitely take Extend, Persist, and DMM: Persist as that's going to make you a lot stronger than any other feats you choose. Pick that up after Sacred Exorcist 1, and then get the first Contemplative level asap afterward for the Necromancy domain and explain it as learning to use your enemies' own weapons against them.

Always take two flaws (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (more here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30)) for two extra feats when possible. Fitting choices would probably be Love of Nature and Bravado, or even Aligned Devotion.

[Maat Mons]

In general, you're right about the Sun domain not giving Turn Undead. However, Mystics get a special rule tucked away in the last paragraph of their Domains class feature. It's after the paragraph where they stop giving rules text and switch to giving examples that clarify the rules already given. You know, the point when everyone stops reading. But in this case, they suddenly switch back to giving new rules text, with a tiny blurb on the next page. A page otherwise devoted to a completely different class. It's not a great example of clear presentation.