The Big Dipper (ridiculous TO)

[Curelomosaurus]

How would one optimize a build consisting only of 1-level dips in casting classes?

- PrCs that advance casting are allowed.

- Base classes are only allowed if they grant spellcasting at 1st level.

For example, Cloistered Cleric/1 Mystic Ranger/1 Sorcerer/1 Wizard/1 Archivist/1 Druid/1 Loremaster/1 Heartfire Fanner/1 Mystic Theurge/1.

EDIT: no racial hit dice or LA. The intent of this is to have 20 levels of dips.

[Doctor Despair]

Are you allowing bloodlines, level-adjustment races, and/or templates?

[noob]

I believe there is something like.
wizard1/master specialist 1/shadowcraft mage 1/ a whole lot of other dips in prcs that grants casting increase at level 1
It needs a lot of dark chaos shuffle and maximum skill rank increase abuse.(like get lycanthropy then psychic reformation then cure yourself periodically for class access)
Of course at that point it is ridiculous and would never get accepted at any table but you asked for ridiculous TO so it is what you get.

[Hiro Quester]

Since many classes have +0 bab or +0 reflex saves for level one, you could be seriously vulnerable, and unable to use rays or touch attacks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Method 1: Phaerimm

Hatchling Phaerimm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040313a) (it's the last monster in the downloaded document), it's a 1 HD Aberration with a +2 LA, with the following racial trait:

"Spells: A phaerimm casts arcane spells as a sorcerer (caster level equals phaerimm’s Hit Dice)."

That means every class level you gain, regardless of what class it's in, advances your Sorcerer spellcasting ability. So Aberration 1/ Sorcerer 1 casts as a Sorcerer 3. Aberration 1/ Sorcerer 1/ Mystic Ranger 1/ Cleric 1/ Mindbender 1/ Ur-Priest 1/ [Ur-Priest advancing PrC dips] 9, including Mystic Theurge as one of those dips, is 15th level (ECL 17 without LA buyoff) with Sorcerer 18 and Ur-Priest 10 spellcasting.


Method 2: Maho-Tsukai

Maho-Tsukai is a tainted prestige class in OA, due to skill prerequisites it can be entered as early as 6th level. It has the following class feature:

"Spell Conversion: A maho-tsukai can "trade in" levels in another spellcasting class for additional levels of maho-tsukai spellcasting ability."

So Mystic Ranger 1/ Sorcerer 1/ Shugenja 1/ Bard 1/ Cleric 1/ Maho-Tsukai 1/ [Maho-Tsukai advancing PrC dips] 14 gets Maho-Tsukai 20 spellcasting. You can get 20th level casting sooner with dual-progression PrCs and trading in both spellcasting levels granted, but there aren't enough that progress two classes at the first level to have a meaningful difference.

[Hiro Quester]

That seems a questionable interpretation of the rule that its racial HD grant sorcerer casting levels. There’s nothing to say that levels of other classes taken do that.



A phaerimm’s favored class is sorcerer. Its sorcerer levels stack with its base spellcasting ability for the purpose of determining spells known, spells per day, and other effects dependent on caster level. A phaerimm character likewise uses the sum of its racial spellcasting levels and appropriate class levels to determine the abilities of its familiar, though it cannot acquire a familiar until it takes at least one level in the sorcerer class.

The use of “appropriate” suggests that only racial HD and those classes that advance sorcerer casting, would grant sorcerer casting.

Juvenile phaerim (+2LA) with 3 levels of Druid would have 2levels of sorcerer casting and 3levels of Druid, for a 5th level character.

[Kaleph]

That seems a questionable interpretation of the rule that its racial HD grant sorcerer casting levels. There’s nothing to say that levels of other classes taken do that.



The use of “appropriate” suggests that only racial HD and those classes that advance sorcerer casting, would grant sorcerer casting.

Juvenile phaerim (+2LA) with 3 levels of Druid would have 2levels of sorcerer casting and 3levels of Druid, for a 5th level character.

Apparently you are citing the 3.5 update of the 3.0 faerunian monsters - if I'm not mistaken, you didn't compare it with the phaerimm published in lost empires of Faerun; that book did a considerable effort to make the rules on the phaerim's spellcasting less clear.

Now, it is a reasonable RAW interpretation, that every subsequent level (not only racial HD) progresses the native spellcasting. However, it is also a reasonable RAW interpretation that it doesn't. And also the typical DM interpretation, of course. But in a TO territory, the exploit might work.

The maho-tsukai trick is much better IMO, although it is also debatable, since the generic fluff of the taint rules in OA suggests that the maho-tsukai is a shujenia/wu jen only prestige class; the wording of the spell conversion ability is also controversial, since it's not 100% stupid proof if it's converting spellcasting levels from a single class, or from more classes. It's also difficult to understand how it would interact with mystic theurge (so sha'ir 3 / mystic theurge 7 / maho tsukai 1 = 9th level spells @ character level 11? wrong example, better cleric 3 / wizard 3 / mystic theurge 5 / maho-tsukai 1).

[shaikujin]

How would one optimize a build consisting only of 1-level dips in casting classes?

- PrCs that advance casting are allowed.

- Base classes are only allowed if they grant spellcasting at 1st level.

For example, Cloistered Cleric/1 Mystic Ranger/1 Sorcerer/1 Wizard/1 Archivist/1 Druid/1 Loremaster/1 Heartfire Fanner/1 Mystic Theurge/1.

EDIT: no racial hit dice or LA. The intent of this is to have 20 levels of dips.

What do you want to optimize? Simply 9s for 1 spellcasting class?

This is an old thread back in 2013, there are 2 possible builds to do that:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?297730-lvl-1-Dip-Build-HELP-PLEASE-D&p=15814948#post15814948


Edit:
Also, what level of ridiculous TO optimization are you open to?

DCFS on the table?
Heighten + Earth Spell + sufficient feats for Extra Slot can grant lvl 9 spells via feats instead of levels.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Psychic warrior 1/psion 1/ardent 1/etc./psionic adaptation for spellthief 1

Use the Magic mantle and Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) to ensure that all of your manifester levels are equal to your HD and the Master (Psi)thief feat to add all your manifester levels together. Augment your 1st level powers known to your level^2, and purchase higher level ardent powers known via psychic chirurgery. Your power points will be based mainly on your bonus pp from your manifesting ability scores (given that your MLs will be ridiculous).

If you can manage a 3 level dip in illithid savant, eat a convert-spell-to-power erudite for its learning mechanic. Use it to learn spells and powers as an ardent.

If you can't get your DM to agree to a psionic version of Master Spellthief, the Loyalty's Reward feat (Kingdoms of Kalamar) allows you to craft your own feat, so just use that for the benefits you want out of Master Psithief. KoK is, believe it or not, considered 1st party, so...