Whats the best build that you can make with a Sha'ir

[Jervis]

First, before i start, i need to point out a possible bit of RAW foo. The Sha'ir is arguably both a arcane and a divine caster. Ignoring the obviously broken cheese of Mystic Theurge double speed caster progression, which no DM should allow and arguably isn't good in the first place because your lower diplomacy will mean your Jin buddy will be spending a lot of time in the clink, what can be done with this. The first things that come to mind are abusing PrCs that never should have been used together. Example Prestige Bard, Prestige Ranger, and Prestige Paladin letting them add "unique" spells from their list to the Sha'ir list, though what is and isn't unique in 3.5 is hard to argue because so many cleric domains, newer classes, etc cannibalized them. Aside from that you have Sacred Exorcist, Sand Shaper, Rainbow Servant, Sovereign Speaker, Incantrix, Abjurant Champion, etc, etc, etc. Admittedly this all hinges on if Sha'ir counts as a divine caster or not, which id love to hear everyone's arguments for or against.

Regardless. How can we make a Sha'ir good? It's almost a true namer predecessor in that it theoretically has all the power in the universe but sucks regardless because of poor execution. Its selling point is its spell selection but takes so long to get anything that it becomes useless. What builds are there to make it good? What feats, PrCs, or multiclasses can make it playable? I really like the Sha'ir conceptually but i can't get myself to actually play it because of all its problems.

[Saintheart]

Have you had a look here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?587573-Trafficking-with-the-Genies-a-Sha-ir-Handbook&highlight=Sha%27ir+Handbook)?

[Jervis]

Thanks i somehow missed that

[Kaleph]

To make it short: PrC's that give bonus domains may add the related spells to your arcane OR divine spell list, depending on your base spellcasting class; that said, YMMV, but potentially you may convert them into arcane spells.

Secondarily, there are ways to cast divine spells spontaneously, so you totally skip the retrieval time. Examples: apprentice feat, skypledged PrC. EDIT: hathran and durthan (the latter through acorn of far travel) allow also spontaneous casting of divine spells, but may feature some cheesy stuff, so it could be harder for them to see actual play.

Some other interesting things: the sha'ir has native access to divine defiance and arcane mastery, so it's a good basis for a counterspell build.

EDIT: In addition, arcane spellsurge + divine impetus is a high-level combo, but it's worth the wait.

The class gives also unique possibilities with dual progression classes, including fochlucan lyrist (which could enjoy a prestige bard dip, since you've mentioned it).

[redking]

I really like the Sha'ir conceptually but i can't get myself to actually play it because of all its problems.

The gen makes the Sha'ir a difficult class to manage. Arguably, the sha'ir cannot even cast spells on the outer planes.

I came up with a homebrewed fix for the Sha'ir. It turns the gen into an abstraction rather than something you have to deal with all the time. PDF here. (https://1drv.ms/b/s!At1QqAc0yBQTgYB2cQ7t1USE7gUMiA?e=fzbLQl) Designed to be tier one. Roughly on part with the wizard.

[Anthrowhale]

Sha'ir have better access to the sorcerer/wizard list than a sorcerer or wizard as long as their gen works. Given that, they are already pretty capable and generally considered tier 1.

Sha'ir has some interesting choices. Geomancer for example is a decent class for a Sha'ir (and poorer elsewhere) particularly for a gish build (which could leverage prestige paladin).

[ChaosStar]

I like multiclassing with Warlock and going both Eldritch Theurge and Eldritch Disciple. You may need a dip in Cleric or Sacred Exorcist if your DM isn't willing to let you in to Disciple without Turn Undead, even though the PrC has an adaptation section dealing with that.

[GrayDeath]

Just saying: Needing a bit of thought to be equal to the best T1 has to offer is by FAR not "Truenamers predecessor".

Yes, a Shair needs work for his "more exotic" Spells.
A QWizard doesnt have them.

A Shair needs time to prepare, as does an Artificer, or a Wizard.

You cant get all of hus goodies easily and NOW? Oh Boooh...^^


Still, watching the thread for inspiration. ^^

[Heavenblade]

While not "the best", it's a pretty neat trick I found, I think it could work pretty well.


Take 3 levels of Shair and then prc into geomancer for 7 levels, take the rage ability. Take the raging luck feat, and prc again into primal scholar from secrets of X'endrix. Between combats, keep stabbing yourself with the smallest weapon possible, go into a rage, use the action point to regain used spell slots. Repeat until you are completely refilled.

You can take 2 more geomancer levels in order to get 9th level spells in heavy armor but that is up to you.

[Cerefel]

One of the bigger differences in the amount of power a sha'ir might have (aside from dual progression cheese) is the Arcane Preparation feat. The feat lets you prepare spells you know without needing to jump through the hoops of having your gen retrieve them.

Do note that there is a raw argument about whether sha'ir can take the feat, since some might consider them a prepared caster already, but I'd argue that since the process of them readying their spell slots always seems to be referred to as "retrieving" them which is presumably a different thing from preparing.

Once you have Arcane Preparation, you count as a spellcaster who can prepare spells, which lets you take Alacritous Cogitation to also count as a spontaneous caster, at which point the world is your oyster and you can take most any spellcasting feats you want that aren't limited to a specific class.

[Anthrowhale]

Another thought here is that Charisma is an excellent attribute from which to get bonuses. Without losing spell advancement, you can get a Cha bonus to AC, Damage, Attack, and Saves.

[Psyren]

I like multiclassing with Warlock and going both Eldritch Theurge and Eldritch Disciple. You may need a dip in Cleric or Sacred Exorcist if your DM isn't willing to let you in to Disciple without Turn Undead, even though the PrC has an adaptation section dealing with that.

This is my preferred approach to Sha'ir because there's a lot of synergy. Warlock gives you plenty of stuff to do while you're waiting for your gen to retrieve the spells you need.