OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread

[Gusion]

Aura?

I'm implying that Redcloak cast Discern Lies on Durkon, who didn't resist. Maybe Giant would just skip it at this point, I'm not sure if Redcloak would have it logically memorized for a dungeon crawl... but we don't really know his relationship with the village there either. So maybe... Redcloak is a legit badass cleric who likely has 7 or 8 4th level spells a day, so it isn't beyond the realm of possible.


Also, you missed the party where they celebrate settling the terms with a decadent festival of crab souflee with a side of lobster tails and pegasus flank.

No terms will be settled. :-) I just think that Redcloak will be enticed by the idea that this will be his opportunity to have a real conversation with his god without dying. :redcloak: "Yo Thor sent his lackey with an offer and they know your plan let's chat hit me up."

In this strip we are learning how emotional Redcloak is about that he's never talked with him. This is the fundamental reason he will take Durkon up on his request to talk with his god about the conversation.

[danielxcutter]

I strongly doubt phoenix pate would actually be spicy in and of itself, personally. This is the Western Continent so maybe they use spices a lot? V did mention something about the hummus having something like 15 or so.

[understatement]

On the note of spices, what did Elan mean by they taste Chaotic (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html)? Is it because the hummus wasn't prepared the most neatly, or...?

Seafood, of course, is Evil-aligned.

[Grey Watcher]

On the note of spices, what did Elan mean by they taste Chaotic (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html)? Is it because the hummus wasn't prepared the most neatly, or...?

Seafood, of course, is Evil-aligned.

It's a riff on the pervasive idea that D&D Lawfulness is associated with blandness, humorlessness, and the like. So particularly intense flavors would, by that rubric, be Chaotic.

[RatElemental]

On the note of spices, what did Elan mean by they taste Chaotic (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html)? Is it because the hummus wasn't prepared the most neatly, or...?

Seafood, of course, is Evil-aligned.

Probably just Elan being Elan, but it could also have been a reference to clashing flavors or exotic flavors (such as most spices) being more "passionate" than the comparatively bland stuff northerners eat.

[dancrilis]

On the note of spices, what did Elan mean by they taste Chaotic (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html)? Is it because the hummus wasn't prepared the most neatly, or...?

Seafood, of course, is Evil-aligned.

I have a theory that good tastes good - which is why evil creatures are more likely to eat good creatures then other evil creatures (and why good creatures also tend to avoid eating evil creatures).

The could I suppose then apply to chaos and law - where chaos is variable taste and law is pristine.

So this would have something like the following table:


Very well made, good food
Very good food prepared with a bit of flavour
Kindof thrown together but it works very well


Well made but the ingredients are missing something
Filling and ok
It's interesting - not good, not bad but certainly interesting


It looks decent - that is about all that can be said for it
It's both kindof boring and barely edible
I don't know everything that was in it - but I think some of it was larval

[Rockphed]

]I don't know everything that was in it - but I think some of it was larval

Emphasis on the was?

[understatement]

I have a theory that good tastes good - which is why evil creatures are more likely to eat good creatures then other evil creatures (and why good creatures also tend to avoid eating evil creatures).

The could I suppose then apply to chaos and law - where chaos is variable taste and law is pristine.

So this would have something like the following table:


Very well made, good food
Very good food prepared with a bit of flavour
Kindof thrown together but it works very well


Well made but the ingredients are missing something
Filling and ok
It's interesting - not good, not bad but certainly interesting


It looks decent - that is about all that can be said for it
It's both kindof boring and barely edible
I don't know everything that was in it - but I think some of it was larval



Somehow this table of food fits most of their respective characters perfectly.

Then what was the Order eating here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0099.html)? :smalleek:

[Doug Lampert]

So you don't think Miko would have turned Admiral Ackbar into calamari?

To really get forum logic correct, you need to ARGUE over whether or not Miko would be justified in turning Admiral Ackbar into calamari.

To which, my answer is, it depends, does she do so early enough to save us all from millions of "It's a Trap" gifs?

[KorvinStarmast]

Also, you missed the party where they celebrate settling the terms with a decadent festival of crab souflee with a side of lobster tails and pegasus flank. Surf and turf, or surf and fowl, not sure how to classify flying horse meat: poultry, like a duck, or more like 'turf' as horse gets cooked like beef. (Well, when I had it in Italy. Yum).

In this strip we are learning how emotional Redcloak is about that he's never talked with him. This is the fundamental reason he will take Durkon up on his request to talk with his god about the conversation. Maybe, but I think I'd drop a couple of dollars on that in Vegas if they had a betting line open. (Wait, Vegas has a betting line open on everything, right?)

I strongly doubt phoenix pate would actually be spicy in and of itself, personally. This is the Western Continent so maybe they use spices a lot? V did mention something about the hummus having something like 15 or so. Phoenix, fire creature, hot, spicy. I think that works by association. Point on V's hummus critique accepted though.

Seafood, of course, is Evil-aligned. My blackened redfish would like a quiet word with you ... :smallcool: it's heavenly (well, when my brother in law cooks it).
I have a theory that good tastes good - which is why evil creatures are more likely to eat good creatures then other evil creatures (and why good creatures also tend to avoid eating evil creatures).

The could I suppose then apply to chaos and law - where chaos is variable taste and law is pristine.

So this would have something like the following table:
I don't know everything that was in it - but I think some of it was larval
For this one, larva rubbed with dried peppers, I think would fit Elan's postulate.

[Dion]

To really get forum logic correct, you need to ARGUE over whether or not Miko would be justified in turning Admiral Ackbar into calamari.

No, Murphy's law of Internet forums states that the best way to get an answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer.

Miko would not turn Ackbar into wasabi.

Miko would ship Han Solo and try to kill Leia.

Spin off potential: Boba Fett and Miko, space bounty hunters. It’s a three camera sitcom with a pronounced laugh track. Most of it is filmed in front of a live studio audience in a set that looks like the interior of a 1950s space ship; a few exterior shots look suspiciously like Vancouver.

[Schroeswald]

To really get forum logic correct, you need to ARGUE over whether or not Miko would be justified in turning Admiral Ackbar into calamari.

To which, my answer is, it depends, does she do so early enough to save us all from millions of "It's a Trap" gifs?
If she did it that early its a Lawful Evil act, if she didn't its Chaotic Neutral.

No, Murphy's law of Internet forums states that the best way to get an answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer.

Miko would not turn Ackbar into wasabi.

Miko would ship Han Solo and try to kill Leia.

Spin off potential: Boba Fett and Miko, space bounty hunters. It’s a three camera sitcom with a pronounced laugh track. Most of it is filmed in front of a live studio audience in a set that looks like the interior of a 1950s space ship; a few exterior shots look suspiciously like Vancouver.
See here you're being creative, we can't have that, it doesn't fit in the established canon, and anything outside of the established canon is dumb and for babies, whats the value in it if you can't memorize facts about it that make storytelling impossible?

[Jasdoif]

So you don't think Miko would have turned Admiral Ackbar into calamari?Ackbar was already Calamari, Mon.

[Doug Lampert]

If she did it that early its a Lawful Evil act, if she didn't its Chaotic Neutral.


NOW we have something to argue about.

It's absurd to claim an act is Chaotic Neutral. Acts can imply alignment by providing you with information about the character's attitudes and alignment, but (baring channeling positive or negative energy and casting a handful of spells) the act itself has no alignment.

Miko would not be committing one of the handful of actual aligned acts, so when you claim an act is Chaotic Neutral, you're presumably claiming it's an act that implies a chaotic neutral alignment.

But an act itself can't be neutral by this definition, because any character can commit a neutral act with no alignment consequences. [For that matter, for the handful of acts with a defined alignment, the acts are never stated to be neutral.]

Thus, you are actually just claiming that her act in turning the Mon Calamari into Non-Mon calamari after the existence of the It's a Trap GIF was already popularized would be a Chaotic act.

The Neutral part is incorrect.

Additionally, a truly Chaotic post GIF Non-Mon conversion would be one using a trap, that didn't give Akbar time to finish his signature line. Which I have to say would be pretty good.

[Schroeswald]

NOW we have something to argue about.

It's absurd to claim an act is Chaotic Neutral. Acts can imply alignment by providing you with information about the character's attitudes and alignment, but (baring channeling positive or negative energy and casting a handful of spells) the act itself has no alignment.

Miko would not be committing one of the handful of actual aligned acts, so when you claim an act is Chaotic Neutral, you're presumably claiming it's an act that implies a chaotic neutral alignment.

But an act itself can't be neutral by this definition, because any character can commit a neutral act with no alignment consequences. [For that matter, for the handful of acts with a defined alignment, the acts are never stated to be neutral.]

Thus, you are actually just claiming that her act in turning the Mon Calamari into Non-Mon calamari after the existence of the It's a Trap GIF was already popularized would be a Chaotic act.

The Neutral part is incorrect.

Additionally, a truly Chaotic post GIF Non-Mon conversion would be one using a trap, that didn't give Akbar time to finish his signature line. Which I have to say would be pretty good.

Who sigged my thing about pedantry last thread? I wanna reuse it here (also, I love this post so much, tempted to put in the extended sig).

[Doug Lampert]

Who sigged my thing about pedantry last thread? I wanna reuse it here (also, I love this post so much, tempted to put in the extended sig).

The post appears to be this (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614527-OOTS-1205-The-Discussion-Thread/page13&p=24582395#post24582395) one.

I actually have no idea how to quote a single post.

BTW: Anything I post may be sigged by anyone, include a link to the original discussion for context.

[Squire Doodad]

How did we go from unicorns to seafood to jokes about Miko and now actually talking about the interactions of Miko and Star Wars?

[bunsen_h]

How did we go from unicorns to seafood to jokes about Miko and now actually talking about the interactions of Miko and Star Wars?

More slowly than usual.

[Peelee]

More slowly than usual.

This is the best answer, really. I think the Giant even commented on one of the more crazy discussion thread paths once.

[CriticalFailure]

sushi is tasty

[Worldsong]

I like seafood.

[Rockphed]

I like seafood.

One time when my in-laws took us out to dinner I ordered a lobster. The waitress hemmed and hawed and eventually said "we need to kill one". To which I responded, "I'm okay with murder". It was ultimately a very tasty meal.

Also, I hate sports.

[danielxcutter]

One time when my in-laws took us out to dinner I ordered a lobster. The waitress hemmed and hawed and eventually said "we need to kill one". To which I responded, "I'm okay with murder". It was ultimately a very tasty meal.

Also, I hate sports.

Do you remember how she reacted?

Also my grandma brought our family to a really good crab restaurant. I’m pretty sure that it was incredibly expensive but I still liked it. Crab innards mixed with rice is way better than it sounds.

[Quebbster]

One time when my in-laws took us out to dinner I ordered a lobster. The waitress hemmed and hawed and eventually said "we need to kill one". To which I responded, "I'm okay with murder". It was ultimately a very tasty meal.
Isn't that a central part of serving sea food? Or did they usually serve the lobsters alive? Or did they usually wait until the lobsters died of natural causes before serving one?

[Peelee]

Isn't that a central part of serving sea food? Or did they usually serve the lobsters alive? Or did they usually wait until the lobsters died of natural causes before serving one?

Most seafood is dead and fileted/de-shelled by the time it gets to the restaurant.

[Quebbster]

Most seafood is dead and fileted/de-shelled by the time it gets to the restaurant.

Oh, you're no fun anymore.

[Arathorne]

Miko would not turn Ackbar into wasabi.


Miko could not turn Ackbar into wasabi as that is made from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasabi

:smallbiggrin:

tried it once took 3 gallons of cold water to cool off the taste :smalleek:

[Arathorne]

Who sigged my thing about pedantry last thread? I wanna reuse it here (also, I love this post so much, tempted to put in the extended sig).

the correct answer to this question is found in my sig :smallbiggrin:

[Peelee]

Oh, you're no fun anymore.

Sorry, the waitress killed me.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Given how far we are from the coast, seafood is both expensive and well past its prime, so allow me to quote the Lobster Quadrille: "Would not, Could not".

[danielxcutter]

Given how far we are from the coast, seafood is both expensive and well past its prime, so allow me to quote the Lobster Quadrille: "Would not, Could not".

...the what?

[dancrilis]

...the what?

Tis a poem.



"Will you walk a little faster?" said a whiting to a snail,
"There's a porpoise close behind us, and he's treading on my tail.
See how eagerly the lobsters and the turtles all advance!
They are waiting on the shingle -- will you come and join the dance?
Will you, won't you, will you, won't you, will you join the dance?
Will you, won't you, will you, won't you, won't you join the dance?

"You can really have no notion how delightful it will be
When they take us up and throw us, with the lobsters, out to sea!"
But the snail replied "Too far, too far!" and gave a look askance --
Said he thanked the whiting kindly, but he would not join the dance.
Would not, could not, would not, could not, would not join the dance.
Would not, could not, would not, could not, could not join the dance.

"What matters it how far we go?" his scaly friend replied.
"There is another shore, you know, upon the other side.
The further off from England the nearer is to France --
Then turn not pale, beloved snail, but come and join the dance.
Will you, won't you, will you, won't you, will you join the dance?
Will you, won't you, will you, won't you, won't you joint the dance?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Man, does nobody read Alice in Wonderland anymore?

[dancrilis]

Man, does nobody read Alice in Wonderland anymore?

I will admit I just looked it up - I was actually surprised a) how long ago it was written, and b) that I lived my whole life never knowing when Lewis Carroll lived.

[Schroeswald]

It’s been a few years okay!

[Doug Lampert]

Miko could not turn Ackbar into wasabi as that is made from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasabi

:smallbiggrin:

tried it once took 3 gallons of cold water to cool off the taste :smalleek:

I was once at a party, popping wasabi peanuts into my mouth like they were candy. A friend asked, "What are those", "Wasabi peanuts", he took one and popped it into his mouth and chewed.

That was the most interesting facial expression. Then he got a drink.

And the lesson for today is, if you don't know what Wasabi means, ask.

I'm told that American wasabi tends to be fake, made from horseradish and mustard. It's fine.

[Quizatzhaderac]

One time when my in-laws took us out to dinner I ordered a lobster. The waitress hemmed and hawed and eventually said "we need to kill one". To which I responded, "I'm okay with murder". It was ultimately a very tasty meal.Why would the restaurant have live lobsters except for this exact purpose?

[Peelee]

Why would the restaurant have live lobsters except for this exact purpose?

The restaurant offering options is different from a specific waitress personally disliking one of the options.

[KorvinStarmast]

Man, does nobody read Alice in Wonderland anymore?

I read it when I was 11.
(Had to use candle light to read at night. :smallbiggrin: )

Maybe I ought to read it again as a flatus veteris; might get something different out of it.

Technically, it may be vetus crepitu

[Doug Lampert]

Why would the restaurant have live lobsters except for this exact purpose?

Restaurants often have decorative fish tanks or ponds near the entrance.

Maybe someone finds overcrowded lobsters with rubber bands around their claws decorative.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Or did they usually wait until the lobsters died of natural causes before serving one?Lobsters are on of the very few animals that doesn't really age once it's an adult. That could easily take a hundred years.

[Jasdoif]

I'm told that American wasabi tends to be fake, made from horseradish and mustard. It's fine.It's true: The wasabi plant has very specific growing conditions (the largest producer in the US is a relatively small operation on the Oregon coast (https://www.forbes.com/sites/suziedundas/2020/03/25/your-wasabi-is-probably-fake--but-this-oregon-farm-is-on-a-mission-to-change-that/)) and is always in high demand, so it tends to be expensive; the related horseradish and mustard, not as much. Of course, horseradish and mustard are both delicious in their own right....

[bunsen_h]

I read it when I was 11.
(Had to use candle light to read at night. :smallbiggrin: )

Maybe I ought to read it again as a flatus veteris; might get something different out of it.

Technically, it may be vetus crepitu

I recommend Martin Gardner's Annotated Alice, which provides context and explains a lot of the topical references that are now quite obscure. Most of the poetry is actually parody of at-the-time well-known verse. For example, the Lobster Quadrille is a parody of Mary Howitt's "The Spider and the Fly" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spider_and_the_Fly_(poem)).

[KorvinStarmast]

Of course, horseradish and mustard are both delicious in their own right.... The older I get the more I appreciate those two condiments. Wasn't until I was in my early 20's that I discovered horseradish and prime rib going together. Never looked back.

I recommend Martin Gardner's Annotated Alice, which provides context and explains a lot of the topical references that are now quite obscure. Most of the poetry is actually parody of at-the-time well-known verse. For example, the Lobster Quadrille is a parody of Mary Howitt's "The Spider and the Fly" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spider_and_the_Fly_(poem)). Hmm, sounds like a winner to me. Thanks for the tip.

[Ruck]

Aww, am I too late for the seafood discussion?

[Emanick]

I recommend Martin Gardner's Annotated Alice, which provides context and explains a lot of the topical references that are now quite obscure. Most of the poetry is actually parody of at-the-time well-known verse. For example, the Lobster Quadrille is a parody of Mary Howitt's "The Spider and the Fly" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spider_and_the_Fly_(poem)).

I second that recommendation - I've read that edition and it's fantastic. It really helps to put the books in context, and they benefit from context more than most.

As an aside, I saw the Lobster Quadrille referenced and immediately thought, "Ah, good old Edward Lear!" I think I need to find a nearby pier to walk off of.

[Jasdoif]

Aww, am I too late for the seafood discussion?We haven't covered shrimp and its excellent deliciousness-to-cost ratio yet, no.

[Peelee]

Aww, am I too late for the seafood discussion?

Depends, did you bring me any?

Speaking of, I passed a new restaurant today, and wife said we can try it next week! I'm excited.

[Rockphed]

Do you remember how she reacted?

No, I mostly remember how my in-laws reacted. I haven't managed to live it down, and I'm not sure I want to.


Isn't that a central part of serving sea food? Or did they usually serve the lobsters alive? Or did they usually wait until the lobsters died of natural causes before serving one?

Some people might be squeamish about having their meal be less than 10 minutes dead.


Most seafood is dead and fileted/de-shelled by the time it gets to the restaurant.

I hear that some places they have tanks with fish that they will gladly pull out and cook for you. I had a friend who went to Thailand who, I think, brought her own fish to a restaurant and had it cooked. That is the same friend who was deathly afraid of live fish (though hearing about how big a mekong catfish is, I'm not sure I blame her). I am fairly certain that most bivalves are best cooked while they are still alive.

Some things, like shrimp and squid, are probably best brought to the restaurant on ice.

[danielxcutter]

The crab restaurant I mentioned earlier had live seafood in tanks so that might be why it was so good. And probably expensive, though I didn’t see the bill.

[Kamunami]

So uh... Durkon's really bad at this. And I'm not really sure what to make of it. Like, it's not out of character for him to be bad at it, but it's like he didn't think once about what he'd actually say, in the time he's been preparing to do so.

It's really not complicated at all. He could simply have told Redcloak "Bottom line is your god has something none of the other gods have, and with his help they might be able to lock the Snarl away for good." No need to go on some pointless tangent about colors, needlessly confuse Redcloak, and get into territory Durkon himself doesn't even understand. He can save that for when Redcloak might ask for specifics. But when his opening statement is so poorly thought out it just... ugh.

I'm not trying to criticize the writing, I'm just really not sure how to feel about Durkon being SO bad at this big gamble he took, like he hasn't bothered to think it through as much as he says he has. Must have just made a really bad persuasion check?

[Rogar Demonblud]

His Charisma is horribly bad for a cleric, even a dwarf one.

[CriticalFailure]

I’m on a seafood diet. I see food, I eat it.

[understatement]

So uh... Durkon's really bad at this. And I'm not really sure what to make of it. Like, it's not out of character for him to be bad at it, but it's like he didn't think once about what he'd actually say, in the time he's been preparing to do so.

It's really not complicated at all. He could simply have told Redcloak "Bottom line is your god has something none of the other gods have, and with his help they might be able to lock the Snarl away for good." No need to go on some pointless tangent about colors, needlessly confuse Redcloak, and get into territory Durkon himself doesn't even understand. He can save that for when Redcloak might ask for specifics. But when his opening statement is so poorly thought out it just... ugh.

I'm not trying to criticize the writing, I'm just really not sure how to feel about Durkon being SO bad at this big gamble he took, like he hasn't bothered to think it through as much as he says he has. Must have just made a really bad persuasion check?

Durkon didn't plan for the meeting to turn out this way -- initially he wanted to Send to Redcloak and have Roy agree to it, which probably meant meeting with Redcloak with the Order behind him in a more covert location. Durkon says so himself: he's not much of a diplomat.

***

Is there a formal term for the "seafood flavor?"

[Anitar]

Is there a formal term for the "seafood flavor?"

..."Fishy"? Yeah, let's go with fishy.

[Metastachydium]

Durkon (…) initially (…) wanted to Send to Redcloak and have Roy agree to it, which probably meant meeting with Redcloak with the Order behind him in a more covert location.

That's the point. The whole plan with the Sending means that he had a ridiculously concise pre-packaged version of the message ready. Instead of using that, however, he made the less than wise decision of resorting to improvisation instead (despite the fact that he has no wisdom-related problms that we know of).

(As for seafood, I'm not that much into crustaceans and cephalopods; I personally prefer those funny edible bivalves to either of those.)

[Ruck]

We haven't covered shrimp and its excellent deliciousness-to-cost ratio yet, no.

Shrimp is pretty good, but as a native son of the Gulf Coast, I've always preferred crawfish and oysters, myself.


Depends, did you bring me any?

Speaking of, I passed a new restaurant today, and wife said we can try it next week! I'm excited.

You're way closer to the Gulf Coast than I am now; you should be bringing me seafood.

Is that safe? I mean, new seafood restaurant sounds awesome, but this is about the worst possible time to try a new restaurant, I'd think.

[Peelee]

as a native son of the Gulf Coast
I knew I liked you for a reason.

You're way closer to the Gulf Coast than I am now; you should be bringing me seafood.
Fair point. I've put it in the mail. I just wrote "Ruck" on the box, I assume they'll know where you are.

Is that safe? I mean, new seafood restaurant sounds awesome, but this is about the worst possible time to try a new restaurant, I'd think.
Masked-up curbside pickup hasn't failed me yet! I want to support any efforts to bring seafood restaurants closer to my work and/or home, as well.

[Ruck]

Masked-up curbside pickup hasn't failed me yet!

Well, as long as you're being properly precautious!

[Peelee]

Well, as long as you're being properly precautious!

Peelee prefers proper precautions, a prevalence of protection for prestige and power.

[danielxcutter]

Fried shrimp is great. Fried anything is great really but even so. I prefer how the Japanese do it, though.

[Ruck]

Fried shrimp is great. Fried anything is great really but even so. I prefer how the Japanese do it, though.

Yeah, tempura rocks. Man, I haven't eaten at a sushi restaurant in about a year. Probably not changing anytime soon!