Is heavy armor really needed for a front line fighter? Will Medium keep me alive?

[pantastic]

For my Construct Artificer (who is going to be a front line fighter: tanky/fighty/casty is the goal) is heavy armor really needed?

Full Plate is AC 18, and comes with a whole pack of issues: price, weight, STR requirements, and Disadvantages.

A medium Breastplate gives AC of 16 (I'll have the DEX), and comes with none of those issues.

I'm betting that even with either one, I will need more to be survivable as a front line fighter - especially at higher levels.

Will that -2 AC literally be the death of me?

For more context on the PC build, I've been getting advice on how to build the Artificer of my dreams here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?615294-5e-Artificer-Fighter-build-help-check-my-math-pimp-my-build

Edit - and before anybody suggests it: Artificer subclass Armorer surprisingly gives no help with AC. Cool weapons, but no AC mechanics.

[Evaar]

The cost of going with Medium Armor is that you need to invest moderately in Dexterity to keep your AC competitive with heavy armor.

If you've done that, it's fine, don't feel that you have to swap to Heavy just because it's an option.

[stoutstien]

The Total AC is noticeable but not detrimental and once you got lv 6 you can combine half plate and the cloak of elvenkind to both counter the disadvantage on stealth checks and give disadvantage on perception checks against you. The Total AC edge H armor has on medium is 1 AC in the end.

[clash]

An Assasin is cr 8 with +7 to hit. that means with 16 ac it hits on 9+, whereas on 18 it hits on 11+.

At a glance it's 50% vs 60% chance to hit which would mean taking 10% more hits.

However you actually have to take the number of hits in each case. With the lower ac you are getting hit 12/10% or 120% of the time over the higher ac or an additional 20%. Still not a huge difference but noticeable.

The higher your ac the more noticeable the change becomes. Say you had plate and were debating a shield. Now it would be 10/8 or 25% more hits.

[MercCpt]

Will that -2 AC literally be the death of me?

Any reduce in AC can be the death of anyone the important thing is how YOU want the character to feel mithril armor is a great sub for heavy ,however if you want your character not to wear heavy then don't wear any simple.

I would like to say in my opinion if you are going for tanky more AC is better so is the dodge ability.

[Tvtyrant]

Depends on what level you are. I aim for AC high enough that the average monster attack roll will be a miss if possible, which is true up to CR 7 for AC16 and CR 10 for AC18. AC20 (heavy plus shield) is good until CR20.

[MaxWilson]

For my Construct Artificer (who is going to be a front line fighter: tanky/fighty/casty is the goal) is heavy armor really needed?

Full Plate is AC 18, and comes with a whole pack of issues: price, weight, STR requirements, and Disadvantages.

A medium Breastplate gives AC of 16 (I'll have the DEX), and comes with none of those issues.

I'm betting that even with either one, I will need more to be survivable as a front line fighter - especially at higher levels.

Will that -2 AC literally be the death of me?

For more context on the PC build, I've been getting advice on how to build the Artificer of my dreams here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?615294-5e-Artificer-Fighter-build-help-check-my-math-pimp-my-build

Edit - and before anybody suggests it: Artificer subclass Armorer surprisingly gives no help with AC. Cool weapons, but no AC mechanics.

You can always swap to Half-plate to increase your AC to 17 (19 with shield), whenever you aren't trying to be sneaky.

Overall the difference is small, unless you can force your enemies to have disadvantage. The main advantage to heavy armor is that it lets you turn crummy AC with crummy Dex into excellent AC with crummy Dex. The secondary advantage to heavy armor is that it gives you a slightly higher AC, but heavy armor isn't mandatory.

[Satori01]

The armor type itself is not essential, but AC scores comparable to the values achieved with heavy armor, are.

A Warforged Artificer at 6th level with the Enhanced Defense and Repulsion shield Infusions is going to have top shelf AC, presuming a 14 Dex.

Since an Artificer is very roughly able to take 1-2 less hits then the D10 HP classes, you want as robust an AC as possible.

Being Unconscious on the front lines, with automatic critical hits and 2 Death Save failures being assessed with close quarters hits, can lead to a surprising quick demise.

An Artillerist's Protector Cannon can really help with d8 HP.

One thing I noticed in your link to the CharOp is you have very low Cha and Wis scores. Many DM's when faced with high ACs go straight to the control effect option.

[pantastic]

the Enhanced Defense and Repulsion shield Infusions

Yes, that is certainly +2 to AC (+3 at level 10) that I can count on. If I have Breastplate (AC 14) with +2 from DEX, +2 Shield, +1 Enhanced Defense, and +1 Repulsion Shield, I'll have AC 20 (or 21 at Artificer level 10).

That's without Ring of Protection, Cloak of Protection, etc. I'm hoping that will be enough, but I don't want to have to use all of my Infusions for AC realted bonuses.


One thing I noticed in your link to the CharOp is you have very low Cha and Wis scores. Many DM's when faced with high ACs go straight to the control effect option.

A very good point.

[pantastic]

You can always swap to Half-plate to increase your AC to 17 (19 with shield), whenever you aren't trying to be sneaky.

Yeah, since I'll be an Artificer and not worried about buying the bestest (most expensive) weapons, I think I could probably afford Full Plate easier than some builds. If I were going to take Disadvantage, I'd probably go for the max AC boost possible - I feel like +1 AC for Disadvantage on Stealth *really* isn't worth it. I'm not even convinced +2 AC is worth it (campaign style matters, of course).

[Lavaeolus]

I suppose there is the Medium Armor Master feat. It'll remove the Stealth disadvantage on any medium armor, and change the DEX boost cap to 3. So that's a possible 18 AC with half-plate, not including any boosts like infusions or shields.

Of course, there's a reason Medium Armor Master is a little niche. It means getting DEX 16 to get its main feature, so that's a very real feat/ASI cost for most medium armor characters, and one benefit of going Battle Smith is getting INT on weapon attacks. Still, I figured I'd give it a shout.

Replicating a Cloak of Elvenkind at Artificer 6+ will, of course, grant advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks as mentioned; that is another way to get around half-plate's restrictions, albeit at the cost of actually getting to use advantage like you would in breastplate or with MAM.

[Man_Over_Game]

The game is designed around most enemies not killing someone in one hit, so much so that the devs described that enemies that deal too much damage to kill a player in a single hit at that creature's normal level (based on various stat calculations) that the monster should be increased in CR to compensate. That is, if a weak monster can kill a player in one hit, it is generally listed as a stronger monster with its original stats (I think it was the troll or ogre or something that was used as an example of this).

So the game isn't designed to kill anyone all that easily. So nobody is likely going to die in one turn, from one hit.

AC then isn't necessarily for immediate survival, but endurance. A -2 to AC isn't the end of the world, but it does mean you're taking roughly 20% more damage than someone who has a higher AC than you. And even Barbarians will need to run away eventually. So instead of running away on turn 4, you might have to run away on turn 3, or so on. You'll need to retreat roughly one turn earlier than other armored characters.

Rather than worrying about that, I'd just take the Tough feat, as that's enough to cover any major differences in defenses, and is a lot easier to implement than a +2 to AC from something. Unless you want to pack a shield and War Caster, which may be better.

[MaxWilson]

Yeah, since I'll be an Artificer and not worried about buying the bestest (most expensive) weapons, I think I could probably afford Full Plate easier than some builds. If I were going to take Disadvantage, I'd probably go for the max AC boost possible - I feel like +1 AC for Disadvantage on Stealth *really* isn't worth it. I'm not even convinced +2 AC is worth it (campaign style matters, of course).

But if you go full plate you'll take a movement penalty as well, unless you have Str 15, and you'll also need heavy armor proficiency. It's a steep price for a occasional extra +1 to AC.

[da newt]

With warforged race you get +1 AC.
With a 1 lvl dip in fighter you can grab defensive FS +1 AC (and 2nd wind) and have shield prof (I can't remember if artificer gets that).
So Breast Plate, shield, 14 Dex, warforged, defensive FS = 20 AC.


In my opinion, if you can rock an 18 AC or more before magic items / spells you are just fine. Med Armor can do that for you, DEX has many benefits over ST, and then you have artificer stuff to buff it even more. I think there are better uses for your ASIs than the MED ARM Master Feat.

[pantastic]

AC then isn't necessarily for immediate survival, but endurance. A -2 to AC isn't the end of the world, but it does mean you're taking roughly 20% more damage than someone who has a higher AC than you. And even Barbarians will need to run away eventually. So instead of running away on turn 4, you might have to run away on turn 3, or so on. You'll need to retreat roughly one turn earlier than other armored characters.

Rather than worrying about that, I'd just take the Tough feat, as that's enough to cover any major differences in defenses, and is a lot easier to implement than a +2 to AC from something. Unless you want to pack a shield and War Caster, which may be better.

Looks like you succeeded on that WIS roll.

Thanks

[Sorlock Master]

For my Construct Artificer (who is going to be a front line fighter: tanky/fighty/casty is the goal) is heavy armor really needed?

Full Plate is AC 18, and comes with a whole pack of issues: price, weight, STR requirements, and Disadvantages.

A medium Breastplate gives AC of 16 (I'll have the DEX), and comes with none of those issues.

I'm betting that even with either one, I will need more to be survivable as a front line fighter - especially at higher levels.

Will that -2 AC literally be the death of me?

For more context on the PC build, I've been getting advice on how to build the Artificer of my dreams here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?615294-5e-Artificer-Fighter-build-help-check-my-math-pimp-my-build

Edit - and before anybody suggests it: Artificer subclass Armorer surprisingly gives no help with AC. Cool weapons, but no AC mechanics.

If you have the DEX then no worries, your going to be on par. It's only about a 10% difference.

[Willie the Duck]

Yeah, since I'll be an Artificer and not worried about buying the bestest (most expensive) weapons, I think I could probably afford Full Plate easier than some builds. If I were going to take Disadvantage, I'd probably go for the max AC boost possible - I feel like +1 AC for Disadvantage on Stealth *really* isn't worth it. I'm not even convinced +2 AC is worth it (campaign style matters, of course).

It's worth remembering that, regardless of whether the cost of full plate eventually becomes affordable, there will be a significant proportion of your character's career (especially if you follow the trend of much of actual gameplay being in the 3-10 level range) where 200 gp available is common, but 1500 or more is not.

[Stangler]

Heavy plate and strength is not needed at all if you are going Battlesmith. If you go with the EK/artillerist build you need strength for your two handed weapon so you might as well go with plate.

One of the big benefits of going EK/Artificer is that you get access to some good really good defensive spells like shield, blur, and even mirror image if you go heavy into EK. Ohh yeah you can also eventually get Haste. Plus the AC increases from infusions.

You can easily push really annoying levels of AC with an EK/Artillerist build. Going plate is really more about leaning into that strength as much as possible.

[Eldariel]

On low levels, Heavy Armor Master is actually a decent feat: it works automatically so even with the worst of luck it'll give you a significant number of extra hits you can take. That's probably the primary advantage of wearing heavy over medium (I've seen it used to great effect on level 4 by a Lizardfolk Cleric, who basically just tanked through a whole bandit encounter with four guys shooting at him). Otherwise it's a fairly minor difference and your defenses will be much more about other, bigger sources of defensive bonuses.

Even on high levels, HAM isn't really worthless. But of course, it's not an optimal feat when enemies begin hitting hard either. While it's rare enough that enemies have magical attacks in this edition, as the punch of each individual attack increases, the feat gets worse. Still, a high level Fighter can get advantage comparable to e.g. Tough (another decent but not amazing feat) while fighting even an ancient dragon or something of the sort.


But yeah, that's the only case where it really matters and where the feat really shines is when you fight a horde of low CR things (Skeletons, Goblins, Zombies, etc.).

[Mikal]

Can’t say without knowing your total stat line

[Dallium]

At a glance it's 50% vs 60% chance to hit which would mean taking 10% more hits.


It's actually 20% more hits. 60 is 20% more than 50, not 10%. It's multiplicative, not additive. The lower AC is 10% more likely to be hit, but that percentage translates to 20% more hits from this specific to hit. If the enemy instead hit on a 19/17 (10% vs 20%), the lower AC would take 100% more hits; 4/2 (85% vs 95%), ~11.8% more hits

[bid]

It's actually 20% more hits. 60 is 20% more than 50, not 10%.
That's his point if you read it all.:smallconfused:

[Keravath]

If you want to be comparing directly - the comparison is half-plate with AC15 and a 14 dexterity for 17AC total vs full plate at AC18. The difference is 1AC. The only reason to go with the breastplate over half-plate is if you also want to avoid disadvantage on stealth checks which is a different consideration altogether.

AC wise, the difference between medium with sufficient dex and heavy armor is just 1AC point which makes a little difference but it isn't overwhelming.

[Satori01]

The game is designed around most enemies not killing someone in one hit,

AC then isn't necessarily for immediate survival, but endurance.

A d10 HP class with 20 Con, and *maximum* HP At 4th level can sustain a little less than 4 hits from a monster that does 16 average damage per hit.

16 average damage is at the low end of expected damage for a CR 2 creature, per pg 274 of the DMG. A CR 1 creature like a Giant Spider can rival the damage of a *low end* CR 2 creature if Saving Throws are failed.

HP tanking low CR creatures is feasible, but when facing creatures that damage for 20% of a characters total HP Maximum, per hit...you either need to be halving the the total of incoming damage, or have an AC score that makes being hit less likely.

The Tough feat on a d8 class is only increasing HP on level gain by 24 %. A Frontline Artificer with an AC identical to a Frontline Raging Barbarian is not going to stay upright nearly as long as the Barbarian, even if both characters had the same HP maximum.

The Tough Feat *and* High AC is my recommendation.

Again the Temp HP from a Protector Eldritch Cannon, will bolster a character with a lower AC.

[Eldariel]

A d10 HP class with 20 Con, and *maximum* HP At 4th level can sustain a little less than 4 hits from a monster that does 16 average damage per hit.

It's worth noting though that often on level 2 you'll fight groups of lower CR enemies rather than CR 2 enemies, where the math gets a little more complicated. It's also worth noting that with these numbers, Heavy Armor Master significantly outperforms Tough (4 hits = 12 damage prevented, which is 50% more than the HP gained from Tough, but at the cost of not applying to spell damage and such of course). Of course, Tough scales better. Neither is an amazing feat but they're the only options available.

[MaxWilson]

A d10 HP class with 20 Con, and *maximum* HP At 4th level can sustain a little less than 4 hits from a monster that does 16 average damage per hit.

16 average damage is at the low end of expected damage for a CR 2 creature, per pg 274 of the DMG. A CR 1 creature like a Giant Spider can rival the damage of a *low end* CR 2 creature if Saving Throws are failed.

HP tanking low CR creatures is feasible, but when facing creatures that damage for 20% of a characters total HP Maximum, per hit...you either need to be halving the the total of incoming damage, or have an AC score that makes being hit less likely.

The Tough feat on a d8 class is only increasing HP on level gain by 24 %. A Frontline Artificer with an AC identical to a Frontline Raging Barbarian is not going to stay upright nearly as long as the Barbarian, even if both characters had the same HP maximum.

The Tough Feat *and* High AC is my recommendation.

Again the Temp HP from a Protector Eldritch Cannon, will bolster a character with a lower AC.

Well, a frontliner Artificer can impose disadvantage on enemies via Blur, and can Shield if necessary, whereas a Raging Barbarian is more likely than not to be Reckless because (sigh) that's what Barbarian players often do.

An AC 18 (breastplate + medium shield) Artificer with Blur will get hit by a Giant Spider 16% of the time (less than once every five rounds, even if he doesn't Shield), with almost no critical hits. A Reckless Raging Barbarian will get 64% of the time with quite a lot of critical hits, 4x as often as the Artificer. Rage reduces the Barbarian's damage by about a quarter (it halves the physical half of the damage--exact proportions depend on Con save bonus and I'm not going to compute them here), so the Barbarian winds up taking 4 * 3/4 = 3 times as much HP damage as the Artificer even before you count the increased risk of criticals.

And that's if the Barbarian is using a Shield so he can be AC 18 too, which (let's be realistic) he's probably not, because Barbarians love GWM.

Anyway, the point is that a Blur and Shield are good enough defensive options that you actually don't need to fret about staying alive. You'll live longer than a stereotypical Barbarian would, although you won't have the same damage output.


It's worth noting though that often on level 2 you'll fight groups of lower CR enemies rather than CR 2 enemies, where the math gets a little more complicated. It's also worth noting that with these numbers, Heavy Armor Master significantly outperforms Tough (4 hits = 12 damage prevented, which is 50% more than the HP gained from Tough, but at the cost of not applying to spell damage and such of course). Of course, Tough scales better. Neither is an amazing feat but they're the only options available.

Lucky also works, and unlike HAM it doesn't require heavy armor, which for the OP's Artificer means no extra feat/level investment. Lucky is at its best when it's used to reroll enemy crits. (It's at its second-best when it's letting PCs reroll saves against disastrous low-probability events like rolling a 2 against a Banshee wail.) Even if you only manage to turn a Fire Giant's crit into a regular hit, for example, that's still ~21 HP of damage you are saving yourself, and if you can turn it into a miss you are saving ~49 HP. Since you get three uses, Lucky is probably worth a minimum of 30-50 "virtual HP" to a high-AC character like an Artificer.

The main advantage Tough has over Lucky is that you can restore Tough HP with healing spells and potions, but you can't restore Lucky virtual HP except by long resting.

[Nagog]

Depending on where you Dex is at, you could switch to Studded Leather (+4 or +5 needed) and could get you up to 18 AC with maxed Dex. From there, nabbing an infusion or a shield to up it to 19 or 20 is easy cheese. Whether that makes a huge difference or not really depends on how "Tank" you want to go. Steel Defenders (from Battle Smith) have a reaction to impose disadvantage on an attack roll made against you, so between that and Shield, you should be fine unless you plan to draw as much Aggro from your teammates as possible.


Also, I don't know if it's come up in your other thread or not, but if you're playing a Warforged Artificer and go Battle Smith, there's no rules anywhere saying your Steel Defender can't be a perfect duplicate of yourself. Image all the cheese you could pull with that up your sleeves. >:D

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I suppose there is the Medium Armor Master feat. It'll remove the Stealth disadvantage on any medium armor, and change the DEX boost cap to 3. So that's a possible 18 AC with half-plate, not including any boosts like infusions or shields.

Of course, there's a reason Medium Armor Master is a little niche. It means getting DEX 16 to get its main feature, so that's a very real feat/ASI cost for most medium armor characters, and one benefit of going Battle Smith is getting INT on weapon attacks. Still, I figured I'd give it a shout.

Replicating a Cloak of Elvenkind at Artificer 6+ will, of course, grant advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks as mentioned; that is another way to get around half-plate's restrictions, albeit at the cost of actually getting to use advantage like you would in breastplate or with MAM.
MAM is effective. Depends on the campaign or DM of course, but 16 Dex and a feat isn't that much more expensive than 15 Str and not getting disadvantage on Stealth can be massive. Just finished a campaign with 1 Rogue and the rest of us employing sneaky tactics, and there were a lot of battles where we just demolished stuff before they even knew we were there.

[stoutstien]

*Heading towards the off topic cliff*

Not only can the battle Smith have similar staying power compared to barbarians they can match or surpass them in damage. That even before you whip up something like a battle smith / Pam/ GWM/ EA combo.

[MaxWilson]

MAM is effective. Depends on the campaign or DM of course, but 16 Dex and a feat isn't that much more expensive than 15 Str and not getting disadvantage on Stealth can be massive. Just finished a campaign with 1 Rogue and the rest of us employing sneaky tactics, and there were a lot of battles where we just demolished stuff before they even knew we were there.

In these kinds of campaigns, Rangers, Druids and Shadow Monks are fantastic due to Pass Without Trace--+10 to Stealth is so good so that it almost doesn't matter if someone is wearing heavy armor, as long as they're proficient in Stealth. (Almost doesn't matter = you'll gain surprise anyway unless the enemy has crazy-high perception AND the heavy armor wearer rolls both dice very low, e.g. 3 and 1.)

[pantastic]

Depending on where you Dex is at, you could switch to Studded Leather (+4 or +5 needed)

Good point. Maybe I should have mentioned that my DEX bonus will probably start at, and stay at, +2. As an Artificer, INT will almost certainly be my primary stat (I know, I know: that is build dependent, but that is my current assumption). If I do heavy front-line fighting, I think CON and my attack stat (STR or DEX) will probably be roughly tied. Maybe if I focus on 'tricks' to get the AC up, CON won't be as neccessary. But I'm rambling, and what I really mean to say is: I don't see this PC ever getting to +4 or +5 DEX.


Steel Defenders (from Battle Smith) ...

Agreed: Steel Defenders have a *ton* of utility in a fight, especially if I get creative. Unfortunately, I'm not at all interested in my Construct having a Construct animal companion. I'm currently waiting for my turn to do serious question and answer with the GM. If he'll let me take Battle Smith and give up the Steel Defender to have the Eldritch Cannon, I'll be done. It's pretty much exactly the character I imagined: fighty, tanky, and casty ... all with a big a$$ arm cannon!

I think Steel Defender is sort of roughly equivalent to Eldritch Cannon in utility ... at least, I'm hoping to make that case to the GM.


there's no rules anywhere saying your Steel Defender can't be a perfect duplicate of yourself. Image all the cheese you could pull with that up your sleeves. >:D

Interesting idea, to be sure. Maybe not right for this PC, but definitely could be fun!

[pantastic]

... something like a battle smith / Pam/ GWM/ EA combo.

By PAM I assume you mean Pole Arm Master ... is EA for Extra Attack?

[Satori01]

Eladriel, I agree re: Heavy Armor Master. Pantastic seems to want to avoid Heavy Armor use.

MaxWilson I also agree. Blur in the Spell Storing Item at 11th level will essentially make it usable all day long.

[Eldariel]

Lucky also works, and unlike HAM it doesn't require heavy armor, which for the OP's Artificer means no extra feat/level investment. Lucky is at its best when it's used to reroll enemy crits. (It's at its second-best when it's letting PCs reroll saves against disastrous low-probability events like rolling a 2 against a Banshee wail.) Even if you only manage to turn a Fire Giant's crit into a regular hit, for example, that's still ~21 HP of damage you are saving yourself, and if you can turn it into a miss you are saving ~49 HP. Since you get three uses, Lucky is probably worth a minimum of 30-50 "virtual HP" to a high-AC character like an Artificer.

The main advantage Tough has over Lucky is that you can restore Tough HP with healing spells and potions, but you can't restore Lucky virtual HP except by long resting.

Yeah, my preferred use for Lucky is to reroll poor Initiative or Counterspell checks but it certainly has a lot of value in rerolling enemy attacks as well. That's very fair. HAM is nice in that it's multiplicative with all the other sources of extra toughness; if you are a Hill Dwarf with 20 Con, Tough and Lucky and then you have HAM, you'll likely get way more mileage out of it (because crits/burst damage are the worst for it).

[SLOTHRPG95]

In these kinds of campaigns, Rangers, Druids and Shadow Monks are fantastic due to Pass Without Trace--+10 to Stealth is so good so that it almost doesn't matter if someone is wearing heavy armor, as long as they're proficient in Stealth. (Almost doesn't matter = you'll gain surprise anyway unless the enemy has crazy-high perception AND the heavy armor wearer rolls both dice very low, e.g. 3 and 1.)

Was that a typo? Surely with disadvantage, all that matters is that they roll low on either die, since they're taking the lower of the two. With that said, it only takes one guard in a group rolling high enough to spot one of y'all for the element of surprise to be ruined when they alert their comrades. If there's a dozen guards (using Guard stats, Perception +2) posted at/near the front gate of the castle, there's over an 80% chance that at least one of them will get a 21 (total, not rolled) on their Perception check to spot you. If you're 5th level, proficient in Stealth, but wearing heavy armor (and w/ 12 Dex since it's probably your 4th-highest stat at best), you're looking at about 50% chance of getting a 20 or lower on your Stealth check w/ Pw/oT active. If you're not wearing heavy armor, that probability gets cut almost in half, and hence your party's chance of getting the surprise advantage (assuming you're the weak link) increases significantly. If you're never sneaking up on groups, or your DM always pits you against the passive perception of each individual monster, then yeah Pass w/o Trace plus proficiency is all that you need even in heavy armor. But if either of these statements are false, you're better off stealthing in Breastplate (or with half-plate and MAM).

As to OP: 16 AC (18 w/ a shield) from Breastplate + 14 Dex is okay for front-lining, especially if you're not the only one sitting on said front lines taking hits. Furthermore, you don't have to spend an ASI on heavy armor proficiency, which is good if you're trying to max out your Int ASAP. If you really want to prioritize stealth, which seems to be the case from what you've mentioned, I'd say the trade-off is worth it.

[LudicSavant]

Don't stress out about Medium vs Heavy -- heavy armor is more of a sidegrade than a straight upgrade.

In the early game, Medium and Heavy armor provide roughly the same AC.
Medium Scale Mail: 16 AC, 50gp, 14 Dex investment
Heavy Chain Mail: 16 AC, 75 gp, 15 Str investment (yeah, you only need 13, but you wanna future-proof your build)

Early on, there's not really an advantage to heavy armor at all.

It's only once you actually get full plate that heavy armor confers an advantage of +1 AC over half-plate. But even then, it does not do so for free; it does so at the cost of an extra 750 gp, and an investment in 15 str instead of 14 dex (with the latter generally making a superior statline). Well, either that or having a speed penalty, which you absolutely do not want (especially on a melee character).

So, the first cost is that unless strength is your primary stat, Dexterity is just plain better. Boosts to Dexterity saves and initiative will reduce the damage you take, just like a higher AC will. Additionally, raising a stat to 14 is a lot more convenient than raising an off-stat to 15, and leaves you a healthy chunk of more points to move around in point buy, which in turn can confer other survivability benefits (and other benefits in general).

The second cost is, well, the actual gp cost. 750 gold is a fat chunk of money. To get an idea of how much cash that is, DMG guidelines suggest Uncommon magic items are worth 101-500 gp, and those items can give +1 AC bonuses and then some. It's enough to outfit two characters with half-plate for the price of equipping one with full. It's enough to get a supply of healing potions to last through an adventure arc.

Sooner or later (depending on the nature of the campaign), Full Plate will become economical in exchange for its +1 AC bonus, but even when that does happen it's just +1 AC, and the stat investment difference never goes away. You'll be fine.

[stoutstien]

By PAM I assume you mean Pole Arm Master ... is EA for Extra Attack?

My bad. Elven accuracy. Not necessarily by any means but just shows flexible battle Smith can be in terms of play style

[MaxWilson]

Was that a typo? Surely with disadvantage, all that matters is that they roll low on either die, since they're taking the lower of the two.

Not an typo, just momentary insanity--I can't imagine what I was thinking when I wrote that. You are of course correct. 1 and 20 is just as bad as 1 and 3.

My main point though is that as long as you're Stealth-proficient and using PWT, enemies with passive Perception in the normal range (10-15ish) have zero chance to detect you, and even unusually perceptive creatures have to hope you'll get unlucky in your dice. PWT is amazing.

I agree that if the guards are actively Searching with their actions (instead of using passive Perception), the numbers shift upward. It's arguably more realistic that way frankly, for well - trained guards with high morale, so it's cool if that's how you run guards, but I think it's uncommon. But yeah, if that is how your DM runs things you definitely want to put on a breastplate before sneaking.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Not an typo, just momentary insanity--I can't imagine what I was thinking when I wrote that. You are of course correct. 1 and 20 is just as bad as 1 and 3.

My main point though is that as long as you're Stealth-proficient and using PWT, enemies with passive Perception in the normal range (10-15ish) have zero chance to detect you, and even unusually perceptive creatures have to hope you'll get unlucky in your dice. PWT is amazing.

I agree that if the guards are actively Searching with their actions (instead of using passive Perception), the numbers shift upward. It's arguably more realistic that way frankly, for well - trained guards with high morale, so it's cool if that's how you run guards, but I think it's uncommon. But yeah, if that is how your DM runs things you definitely want to put on a breastplate before sneaking.

Agreed, Pass w/o Trace is an amazing spell, and it completely wrecks anything relying on passive Perception. And the day watch at the back gate to a sleepy town are definitely using passive Perception in my games, being neither highly trained nor highly motivated. However, the soldiers in league with the cultists, keeping an eye out for trouble while the ritual to summon a Cornugon is going on in the basement? You'd better believe that they're on form. Not sure how common that is compared to how others run their games.

[Zalabim]

Well, a frontliner Artificer can impose disadvantage on enemies via Blur, and can Shield if necessary, whereas a Raging Barbarian is more likely than not to be Reckless because (sigh) that's what Barbarian players often do.

An AC 18 (breastplate + medium shield) Artificer with Blur will get hit by a Giant Spider 16% of the time (less than once every five rounds, even if he doesn't Shield), with almost no critical hits. A Reckless Raging Barbarian will get 64% of the time with quite a lot of critical hits, 4x as often as the Artificer. Rage reduces the Barbarian's damage by about a quarter (it halves the physical half of the damage--exact proportions depend on Con save bonus and I'm not going to compute them here), so the Barbarian winds up taking 4 * 3/4 = 3 times as much HP damage as the Artificer even before you count the increased risk of criticals.

And that's if the Barbarian is using a Shield so he can be AC 18 too, which (let's be realistic) he's probably not, because Barbarians love GWM.

Anyway, the point is that a Blur and Shield are good enough defensive options that you actually don't need to fret about staying alive. You'll live longer than a stereotypical Barbarian would, although you won't have the same damage output.
More of a tangent, definitely not to take away from your point, but Giant Spiders have 10' blindsight. I was actually intending to lament that I have the worst luck with DM attack rolls/concentration spells. It's better to not be attacked at all.

[tatsuyashiba]

f I do heavy front-line fighting, I think CON and my attack stat (STR or DEX) will probably be roughly tied.

As Battle Smith artificer - you can use Int as both your primary casting and attack stat. In my opinion, this means you get a lot more out of Dex at 14 and leaving it there, rather than also trying to have a 16+ in Str. Dex 14 gets you the +2 AC with medium armor, and Str can be as much of a dump stat as you want.

[MaxWilson]

More of a tangent, definitely not to take away from your point, but Giant Spiders have 10' blindsight. I was actually intending to lament that I have the worst luck with DM attack rolls/concentration spells. It's better to not be attacked at all.

Touche, sir. :) I believe you've caught me in two errors in two days (mea culpa), so thank you. I should know better because Giant Spider + Fog Cloud is a lot of fun for low-level Moon Druids, but in this context I didn't think of it. (And these kinds of mistakes are part of what makes the game fun--if this had been a real game I'd be like, "I just spent a spell slot and an action to pointlessly cast Blur against a Giant Spider, why?!?")

Agree that it is better not to be attacked at all. I love the Mobile feat, and it's even better under PHB initiative because PHB initiative is very predictable: an enemy which spends its turn Dashing up to you this round is guaranteed not to get a turn again until you've had a chance to Booming Blade and walk away. (But again, what makes the game exciting is the chance that you'll accidentally do something stupid instead of something "better." I can recognize flawless play but I can't necessarily execute it. :) )

[DwarfFighter]

5e puts you in a position where low-power mobs can score lucky hits and high-power bosses will occasionally miss. Upping your AC from say, 14 to 20 will have significant impact, so the key thing is that as long as you allow yourself to be attacked, you are going to get hit.

If your "job" is to "tank", then your best protection is your party.

While you are on the front rank, their job is to make sure the enemies are either bottle-necked (fewer attacks), impaired (less accurate attacks), or quickly dead (shorter fights).

If you have low AC but in return gain other options, like better mobility, more resources (you can carry more!) etc, your job is to bring those benefits to bear. If you have high AC and few options, grit your teeth, keep track of your HP, and call for support before you are compromised.