Optimizing K'yorl's Team

[Bartmanhomer]

Hey everybody. I just finished creating the K'yorl Horlbar team. There will be four characters to be optimized. First is Han Lanik, K'yorl's gnome sidekick: https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2248876 For have I want to focus on his sneak attacks and get better spells for him on later levels unless is there a good PrC for him.

Next, there's Sariel Evenwind (K'yorl mistress and second girlfriend that he's dating. https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2249491 She basically focused on Enchantment and Divination spells. She's also focused on some defensive spells which I'm planning to use the Master Specliat PrC for later levels or something better than that.

Next, we have the courageous Darrak Deepmiddens https://myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2249492 Well he basically focus on melee and close combat. This is one of the two TOB characters that I made and I think I want him to focus on his Strength so he can dish serious damage.

Finally, We have the analytical Hagar Hardy https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2249494 Well he pretty much focuses on sneak attacks and flanking and definitely focus on close combat hopefully with his maneuvers and stances.

It's taken me 2 days to finish these sheets. So any advice to optimized this team. I would like to hear your feedback on them. :smile:

[el minster]

good job on the hard work and consider focusing on shadow blade for the swordsage

[Bartmanhomer]

good job on the hard work and consider focusing on shadow blade for the swordsage

Thank you bestie. :smile:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So, K'yorl (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614799-Optimizing-K-yorl-Horlbar) is the Cleric (Leader (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand)), Han is the Rogue/Face (Lancer), Sariel is the Wizard (Chick), Darrak is the Fighter (Big Guy), and Hagar is a Backup Thief (Smart Guy).

Han: I don't really find Spellthief impressive as anything but a single-level dip. One level gets trapfinding, sneak attack, and the ability to use wands of any wizard spells in the schools it can access, namely Wraithstrike which is still a swift action on a wand per the Rules Compendium. It's basically the same as dipping a level of Rogue, but slightly fewer skill points and wand use. It's good on something that exploits the feat Master Spellthief, such as Spellthief 1/ Beguiler 1/ Wizard 3/ Ultimate Magus. It's good on something that needs to dip a level of Rogue, like Spellthief 1/ Psion or Ardent 4/ Psychic Assassin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) 6/ Slayer (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) 9 (use an Avenger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) variant of Psychic Rogue), and pick Mind Cripple which is amazing at disabling bruiser opponents. In any case you'd want to move the 18 Cha into Int or Wis for casting, and then you're left without a primary Cha character. Or you could go Spellthief 1/ Sorcerer 4 into Unseen Seer or Daggerspell Shaper and then Arcane Trickster.

Sariel: She's an elf, give her a bow! Trade the familiar class feature for Instant Daze in PH2, if you want a familiar spend a feat on Obtain Familiar since that advances with your prestige class levels as well, and makes Improved Familiar worthwhile. Consider trading Scribe Scroll (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) for Point-Blank Shot or Improved Initiative, depending on whether you also plan on getting Precise Shot. For future feats considering Unsettling Enchantment and/or Touch of Distraction in CM. A Mindbender dip would be ideal if she wasn't good aligned.

Darrak: Just staying single-classed Warblade for his career will work fine. In any case Power Attack + Leap Attack + Armbands of Might + a Valorous weapon for his loadout. Consider dipping Ranger 2 for the strong arm fighting style which gets Power Attack, and that allows him to use wands of Rhino's Rush, or Fast Movement Ranger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 1/ Fighter 1 accomplishes the same thing with fewer skill points. Always try to multiclass an even number of levels on an initiator. Even consider taking Bloodstorm Blade 4 if you want him to throw around his axe like it's Stormbreaker (MCU). I'm a fan of going Fighter 9/ Warblade 10/ Fighter 1, using Dungeoncrasher and the Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels (reflavored) and the dead levels features, in which case get Fearsome armor (DotU version), Never Outnumbered skill trick, Imperious Command feat, on top of Knock-Back (requires large size or powerful build) and at 20th he can even get Weapon Supremacy in PH2. It's fine to start that with Warblade at 1st level, and he can get Enlarge Person + Permanency to do Dungeoncrasher tricks.

Hagar: He's honestly going to be pretty bad at melee until he gets Weapon Finesse at 3rd, and he'll also need Shadow Blade. He's a Human but hasn't spent his bonus feat, use that to get Shadow Blade, and you didn't include his Weapon Focus from Discipline Focus in his attack bonuses. Pick up Adaptive Style at 6th so he can get back all his maneuvers at once, it's basically a feat tax like Natural Spell (but nowhere near as good). He's focused on flanking, but no Island of Blades? Moment of Perfect Mind isn't a stance, counters and boosts are maneuvers just like strikes. Also, Sudden Leap requires another Tiger Claw maneuver or stance, so you need Wolf Fang Strike, but that's not necessarily bad. Hunter's Sense is super good as an always-on stance when he's not in combat, and you can make a trope of him sniffing out everything he finds. Just stick with Swordsage, it gets good things at pretty much every level. You could also go for a ranged build with Swordsage 3/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2), you can even TWF with Mind Arrows. Put the third and even second Swordsage level after Soulknife for higher level maneuvers, and mix more Swordsage levels in between Soulbow when his initiator level is right to get choice maneuvers and stances. Maybe explain this as discovering or awakening some kind of inner power that he gradually learns to control.

[Bartmanhomer]

So, K'yorl (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614799-Optimizing-K-yorl-Horlbar) is the Cleric (Leader (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand)), Han is the Rogue/Face (Lancer), Sariel is the Wizard (Chick), Darrak is the Fighter (Big Guy), and Hagar is a Backup Thief (Smart Guy).

Han: I don't really find Spellthief impressive as anything but a single-level dip. One level gets trapfinding, sneak attack, and the ability to use wands of any wizard spells in the schools it can access, namely Wraithstrike which is still a swift action on a wand per the Rules Compendium. It's basically the same as dipping a level of Rogue, but slightly fewer skill points and wand use. It's good on something that exploits the feat Master Spellthief, such as Spellthief 1/ Beguiler 1/ Wizard 3/ Ultimate Magus. It's good on something that needs to dip a level of Rogue, like Spellthief 1/ Psion or Ardent 4/ Psychic Assassin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) 6/ Slayer (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) 9 (use an Avenger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) variant of Psychic Rogue), and pick Mind Cripple which is amazing at disabling bruiser opponents. In any case you'd want to move the 18 Cha into Int or Wis for casting, and then you're left without a primary Cha character. Or you could go Spellthief 1/ Sorcerer 4 into Unseen Seer or Daggerspell Shaper and then Arcane Trickster.

Sariel: She's an elf, give her a bow! Trade the familiar class feature for Instant Daze in PH2, if you want a familiar spend a feat on Obtain Familiar since that advances with your prestige class levels as well, and makes Improved Familiar worthwhile. Consider trading Scribe Scroll (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) for Point-Blank Shot or Improved Initiative, depending on whether you also plan on getting Precise Shot. For future feats considering Unsettling Enchantment and/or Touch of Distraction in CM. A Mindbender dip would be ideal if she wasn't good aligned.

Darrak: Just staying single-classed Warblade for his career will work fine. In any case Power Attack + Leap Attack + Armbands of Might + a Valorous weapon for his loadout. Consider dipping Ranger 2 for the strong arm fighting style which gets Power Attack, and that allows him to use wands of Rhino's Rush, or Fast Movement Ranger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 1/ Fighter 1 accomplishes the same thing with fewer skill points. Always try to multiclass an even number of levels on an initiator. Even consider taking Bloodstorm Blade 4 if you want him to throw around his axe like it's Stormbreaker (MCU). I'm a fan of going Fighter 9/ Warblade 10/ Fighter 1, using Dungeoncrasher and the Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels (reflavored) and the dead levels features, in which case get Fearsome armor (DotU version), Never Outnumbered skill trick, Imperious Command feat, on top of Knock-Back (requires large size or powerful build) and at 20th he can even get Weapon Supremacy in PH2. It's fine to start that with Warblade at 1st level, and he can get Enlarge Person + Permanency to do Dungeoncrasher tricks.

Hagar: He's honestly going to be pretty bad at melee until he gets Weapon Finesse at 3rd, and he'll also need Shadow Blade. He's a Human but hasn't spent his bonus feat, use that to get Shadow Blade, and you didn't include his Weapon Focus from Discipline Focus in his attack bonuses. Pick up Adaptive Style at 6th so he can get back all his maneuvers at once, it's basically a feat tax like Natural Spell (but nowhere near as good). He's focused on flanking, but no Island of Blades? Moment of Perfect Mind isn't a stance, counters and boosts are maneuvers just like strikes. Also, Sudden Leap requires another Tiger Claw maneuver or stance, so you need Wolf Fang Strike, but that's not necessarily bad. Hunter's Sense is super good as an always-on stance when he's not in combat, and you can make a trope of him sniffing out everything he finds. Just stick with Swordsage, it gets good things at pretty much every level. You could also go for a ranged build with Swordsage 3/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2), you can even TWF with Mind Arrows. Put the third and even second Swordsage level after Soulknife for higher level maneuvers, and mix more Swordsage levels in between Soulbow when his initiator level is right to get choice maneuvers and stances. Maybe explain this as discovering or awakening some kind of inner power that he gradually learns to control.
Thank you. I appreciate your feedback. :biggrin:

[el minster]

Also you need ranged weapons

[Bartmanhomer]

Also you need ranged weapons

You're right. :smile:

[el minster]

Somthing seems off about the meneuvers and stances not sure what

[Bartmanhomer]

Somthing seems off about the meneuvers and stances not sure what

Hmm..not sure either. :confused:

[el minster]

Oh, moment of the perfect mind is writen as a stance and a meneuver

[Bartmanhomer]

Oh, moment of the perfect mind is writen as a stance and a meneuver

Yes I think it's both.

[el minster]

yeah it's both but only in the way all stances are meneuvers

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Yes I think it's both.

Anything labeled as a 'strike' or 'counter' or 'boost' is a maneuver, only the ones labeled as 'stance' are stances. If you read Moment of Perfect Mind, it even says in the description, "You can use this maneuver..."

Stances known do count as maneuvers known for qualifying for other maneuvers and stances, but not for any other purpose, and this is the only overlap that occurs.

[el minster]

Anything labeled as a 'strike' or 'counter' or 'boost' is a maneuver, only the ones labeled as 'stance' are stances. If you read Moment of Perfect Mind, it even says in the description, "You can use this maneuver..."

Stances known do count as maneuvers known for qualifying for other maneuvers and stances, but not for any other purpose, and this is the only overlap that occurs.

Thank you for clearing that up :)

[Bartmanhomer]

Anything labeled as a 'strike' or 'counter' or 'boost' is a maneuver, only the ones labeled as 'stance' are stances. If you read Moment of Perfect Mind, it even says in the description, "You can use this maneuver..."

Stances known do count as maneuvers known for qualifying for other maneuvers and stances, but not for any other purpose, and this is the only overlap that occurs.

Yes, thanks for that. :smile: