What do you get when you Alter Self into a Garuda (Dr Mag 352)? Better than Avariel?

[Gavinfoxx]

So I stumbled across this creature type, and I realized, holy cow it's HUMANOID and it flies and it has a ton of ex racial abilities.

Is this as good as I think it is?? Am I missing something here? What exactly do you get?

[TheCount]

a changeling archer might have uses for them.....

OMG! THAT ISSUE HAS THE BUZZSAW LAUNCHER!!!!!!

[Gavinfoxx]

I was thinking a transformation domain cleric, personally, for a cleric archer type. Do you get the feats from their rhd??

[Thurbane]

Alter Self gives you: size, mundane movement capabilities (fly speed max 120, 60 for other movement forms), natural armor bonus, natural weapons, racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats (so not general feats, only those marked as bonus feats), and any "gross physical qualities" (such as the presence of absence of wings etc.).

No more, no less.

So, quick glance at the Garuda, you get: medium size, +2 natural AC, fly (40 ft, average), 2 claws 1d4 each, +8 racial bonus on Spot in daylight hours while flying.

Compared to an Avariel: medium size, fly (50 ft, average), +4 racial bonus to Spot and Jump., +2 racial bonus on Listen and Search. Possibly some weapon proficiency feats as well.

[Gavinfoxx]

What about the Vertical Strike? Alter Self doesn't seem to say it does Not grant ex special attacks, and that plausibly has something to do with their physiology.

[Thurbane]

What about the Vertical Strike? Alter Self doesn't seem to say it does Not grant ex special attacks, and that plausibly has something to do with their physiology.


You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.

You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.

If the Garuda had been presented in the older stat block arrangement, I'm pretty confident that Vertical Strike would have appeared in the Special Attack section. As it is, its under Attack Options.

I don't really see any way could argue that Vertical Strike counts as a "physical quality", at least in my opinion.

[Gavinfoxx]

I just thought of how alter self felt the need to specifically mention you don't get any supernatural special attacks, and also that you get some but not all extraordinary special attacks. The point of contention is, is this attack option one of the categories they get? I'd posit it has to do with how fast they can dive, due to wing shape, which would be a physical quality, and so the ambiguity in the formatting of the stat block could be resolved as 'the caster gets the benefit'.

[Saintheart]

a changeling archer might have uses for them.....

OMG! THAT ISSUE HAS THE BUZZSAW LAUNCHER!!!!!!

It also has the Greatcleaver, which does 2d8 base damage as a two-handed melee weapon. That matches the 3.0 Fullblade on damage without having to worry about size problems. Also has a critical multiplier of x3 and a "10 foot reach" even though it is not explicitly classed as a Reach weapon, meaning it can chop adjacent targets too. And the Cactacae, i.e. the Cactus People from the same issue, treat it as a martial weapon.

[Gavinfoxx]

If this edition is made of so much awesome... Why have I not heard of it before? Egads! Some of this stuff should be a bigger deal than eidetic wizard!

[Saintheart]

If this edition is made of so much awesome... Why have I not heard of it before? Egads! Some of this stuff should be a bigger deal than eidetic wizard!

Because, simply put, it's Dragon magazine. And only peasants, (pejorative, not class) use gobbets of dirty Dragon magazine in their games.

[Thurbane]

Because, simply put, it's Dragon magazine. And only peasants, (pejorative, not class) use gobbets of dirty Dragon magazine in their games.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wJZVPKjltNgLeIjQd7UVJr-AHmc32XLH_jHsz1YsAz5qfA6013PjY7SQlfqE0hvHkQ=w100

To be honest, I'm softening a bit on allowing Dragon and Dungeon content at my table, but there's still the problem that individual issues of a magazine can be difficult for all players to legally have access to.