Anthropocentric etymology of yuan-ti racial castes

[Venger]

I'm sure with the title alone, I'll be summoning Zaq somehow, but the question's open to anyone, really.

My familiarity with yuan-ti culture and the game as a whole is largely restricted to 3.x. That said, I do know yuan-ti go back to the game's beginning so the answer I seek may be lurking there.

What I'm wondering about is why the ruling elite caste, the most snake-like are called abominations and the lowest, least desirable members are referred to as purebloods. Yuan-ti society has no particular love for purebloods and at least some of them aren't even born as yuan-ti, but are turned from human after becoming tainted ones. (Related, are there any numbers on what percent of purebloods are born from eggs vs which ones are transformed from human captives?)

I'm well aware the answer is probably just like any other race on oerth, they have human beauty standards for no logical reason, but that doesn't satisfy me and this seems like the kind of thing that might be lurking in some obscure 1e book.

I thought that I'd read somewhere that the naming structure listed in the book was the common translation and that in yuan-ti's own language, they called the snakiest ones purebloods and the humaniest looking ones abominations, but I can't find evidence of this anyplace. Is this actually true?

Any light anyone could shed on this would be appreciated.

[hamishspence]

Yuan-ti society has no particular love for purebloods and at least some of them aren't even born as yuan-ti, but are turned from human after becoming tainted ones.

I've never heard of tainted ones getting promoted to purebloods. Source?

[Venger]

Savage species p 99. The (such and such) circle class features of yuan-ti cultist allow them to promote humans to tainted ones/broodguards, tainted ones to purebloods, purebloods to half-bloods, and half-bloods to abominations.

[hamishspence]

Good point. However this may be rare (Serpent Kingdoms doesn't say anything about a portion of purebloods being ex-tainted ones).

[Venger]

Right. Or it might not be. Since purebloods are treated as expendable cannon fodder and can be created from a human captive (or one of the many human collaborators who are members of the yuan-ti faith) in less for 50gp, this process being an explanation of where the majority come from makes a lot of sense. That's why it's one of the questions I'm asking. I couldn't find anything about it there or in savage species either.

[hamishspence]

Right. Or it might not be. Since purebloods are treated as expendable cannon fodder and can be created from a human captive (or one of the many human collaborators who are members of the yuan-ti faith) in less for 50gp, this process being an explanation of where the majority come from makes a lot of sense. That's why it's one of the questions I'm asking. I couldn't find anything about it there or in savage species either.

The wiki didn't mention transformed purebloods, just saying they hatched from eggs.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Yuan-ti_pureblood

hence my guess that the potion's use for upgrading yuan-ti to the next tier up, is rare.


Regarding naming conventions - we know they don't call themselves yuan-ti in Faerun, but "vrael-olo" - makes sense that the other names are applied by outsiders too, even if it hasn't been canonised yet.

[Zombimode]

What I'm wondering about is why the ruling elite caste, the most snake-like are called abominations and the lowest, least desirable members are referred to as purebloods. Yuan-ti society has no particular love for purebloods and at least some of them aren't even born as yuan-ti, but are turned from human after becoming tainted ones. (Related, are there any numbers on what percent of purebloods are born from eggs vs which ones are transformed from human captives?)

For what its worth: I've always switched the names arround: "purebloods" are "abominations" and vice versa.


I'm well aware the answer is probably just like any other race on oerth, they have human beauty standards for no logical reason, but that doesn't satisfy me and this seems like the kind of thing that might be lurking in some obscure 1e book.

One thing to note is that, at least in my impression, Yuan-Ti in Greyhawk are not one singular race with multiple population centers, but several isolated and unconnected (at least directly) instances of cursed snake-like creatures.
For instance the Yuan-Ti of the Amedio have their roots with Olman that made a pact with one of the alien Olman gods. They have no relation to the Yuan-Ti of H’Thiss Kaa in the Hool Marshes. Thus he Monster Manual entry is more like a template with some fluff suggestions.

[Tiktakkat]

For what its worth: I've always switched the names arround: "purebloods" are "abominations" and vice versa.

I have done the same thing.


One thing to note is that, at least in my impression, Yuan-Ti in Greyhawk are not one singular race with multiple population centers, but several isolated and unconnected (at least directly) instances of cursed snake-like creatures.
For instance the Yuan-Ti of the Amedio have their roots with Olman that made a pact with one of the alien Olman gods. They have no relation to the Yuan-Ti of H’Thiss Kaa in the Hool Marshes. Thus he Monster Manual entry is more like a template with some fluff suggestions.

It can be read that way.

As it goes, with both of the concepts you mention, I have treated yuan-ti as the "reverse" of the default presentation. That is, not as humans cursed to be snakes, but as super-intelligent snakes that have willfully interbred with humans to create "half-bloods" and "abominations", with a Lovecraft and Howard theme of insidious corruption.

Oh, and yuan-ti do not go back to the absolute beginning of the game.
They were introduced in module I1 - Dwellers of the Forbidden City, for AD&D. Still quite old.

[Fizban]

Well if the entire race originated from humans, it makes sense to have anthropocentric etymology. Ghere are tons of negative words that are commonly used in direct contradiction to their meaning- bad, sick, wicked, it's a whole thing. So we've got snake-people who like their snake-ness, but originated from people who would have called that snakeness an abomination, seems fine to me that they'd take those words and use them the opposite way. When a yuan-ti calls you a pureblood it's an insult, because you don't have as much awesome snake blood as they do, they use the word "abomination" with reverence, etc.

Of course, saying they have their own language screws this up, but basically everything that can talk just suddenly has its own language by default, regardless of how silly it is or how it clashes with "common" and DMs not wanting to deal with tracking 50+ languages (even if it would be more realistic).

As for creating purebloods out of normal humans not being mentioned anywhere else- it's a prestige class in Savage Species? Basically the least-canon part of the least-canon (and competitor for most-broken by several metrics) book.

[Blackhawk748]

The names could be simply from the other races perspective and not the Yuan Ti

[Thurbane]

Yuan-ti first appeared back in 1E from memory. I think the 1E MM2 was the first to give them much in the way of details, although I think they appeared in a module before that. The castes are mentioned, but no explanation really given for the designations.

The Ecology of the Yuan-ti article back in Dragon 151 doesn't shed a lot of light on the naming conventions either, unless I missed anything.

Their first appearance was the 1E module Dwellers in the Forbidden City. As already mentioned. :smallredface:

Dig that funky 1E art!

https://imgur.com/kC06Spf.jpg

[Azuresun]

I actually quite like it. It's a nice twist to have the "pure" ones be on the lowest rung, and the titles becoming more monstrous as you go up.

Maybe it's a polite way of saying that the human-like ones just aren't evil enough to be considered "proper" yuan-ti? :smalltongue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w27meg0YfEU

[Esprit15]

Joining in the “I just have that as the outside naming system, they call themselves something else” camp. In my case, they view their varied forms as a blessing by their god, and so are ranked as Least Blessed, Moderately Blessed, and Most Blessed. They view the term Yuan-ti as extremely insulting.

[afroakuma]

There are two ways to look at it:

• My preference, as described by others, is that the names commonly used for yuan-ti castes are exonyms. Yuan-ti don't codify themselves as "pureblood," "broodguard," "abomination" etc. but rather outsiders label them thusly. Broodguards are histachii in the yuan-ti tongue, this we know to be true.

• Alternately, yuan-ti are known to be descended from humans who received a "blessing" from a dark elder power - variously a nameless and forgotten elder god, the somnolent Merrshaulk, vanished Sch'theraqpasstt, interloper Sarthis, and the Olman deity Tlaloc. The nature of this "blessing" touched all of them to some extent, but their culture considers their human blood to be a thing of weakness - to be "pureblood" means one has not been infused with the divine venom of Merrshaulk and received his scaly grace; to be "half-blood" means one has been born with the gift of Merrshaulk's venom but is still "cursed" with vestiges of humanity. For abominations, the term being used has an atavistic meaning - "ab-" denoting "away from" and "ominari" being a word indicating prophecy or foretelling. (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/abomination) Where other cultures use it to mean something of horror, yuan-ti use it to refer to those who have gone beyond the prophecies of Merrshaulk's gift and realizing the full potential. Similarly, anathemas are named for another atavistic meaning - they are the ultimate embodiment of Merrshaulk's "blessing" and his greatest and most terrible servants on the Prime.

Bit laborious, but if you don't like the first one, the second one is probably what you were looking for. :smalltongue:

[Venger]

Great answer. That is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Thanks.

Related: are there any population demographic statistics for what a typical yuan-ti city is like? What percent of each caste and such like eberron does for races etc.

[afroakuma]

Great answer. That is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Thanks.

Related: are there any population demographic statistics for what a typical yuan-ti city is like? What percent of each caste and such like eberron does for races etc.

We could refer to the Monster Manual for that, which tells us that a yuan-ti tribe consists of 20-160 purebloods, 10-80 half-bloods, and 10-40 abominations. Looking at the random encounters in Fortress of the Yuan-Ti, we see 16-34 purebloods, 4-14 half-bloods, and 4 abominations. Anathemas do not exist in yuan-ti cities (officially, at least).

My personal lean is that the numbers on abominations are a bit high. I'd suggest 25-40% half-bloods, 5-8% abominations, and the remainder pureblood is probably a decent balance, especially when related creatures are added into the mix. In addition to tainted ones, histachii, and ti-khana, you also have the potential for creatures such as the ssvaklor, and if you want to import a bit of lost 2E lore, you could port over the marl (http://mojobob.com/roleplay/monstrousmanual/m/marl.html).

For additional flavor, remember that yuan-ti may worship many deities and get involved in sectarian conflicts. Sertrous, Demon Prince of Heretics, is explicitly one of the faiths that is seen among yuan-ti, after all. Some might even decide they need to venerate more horrifying things than the rest of their people traditionally bow to - a high priest of Tharizdun trying to unlock eternal darkness, for instance, or a potent psionic whose dreams brush the Far Realm.

Finally, yuan-ti may hail from different tribes that splintered from the original cursed human stock. While members of these tribes may coexist to further greater purposes, it doesn't mean that they don't have their differences, both in terms of abilities and in nature and goals. Diversity can be created with the allocation of bonus feats endemic to that tribe. For instance, Improved Initiative for a tribe more alert than others; Lightning Reflexes for one that's more flexible; Ability Focus (poison) for one more venomous; Power Attack for a more brutish group. Skill bonuses are another way to allude to differences.