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View Full Version : How to do the "there's only one species of dragons, and they metamorphose" thing?



Gavinfoxx
2020-07-08, 11:04 AM
So I read someone on this forum had the bright idea to make it so there's only one species of dragon in the standard d&d 3.5 setting (this would also work for Pf1, or any version of D&D that is drowning in dragon varieties, like ad&d 2nd, though I run 3.5), and the eggs metamorphose the race to suit the environment the dragon is in before they hatch. This wouldn't change the stats of the dragons at all, ideally. I'd like some more help fleshing out this idea, which I like a lot. It means that dragons of differing alignments are likely to rub shoulders and not necessarily fight one another, for example (they're potential mating partners!). Maybe a single clutch could have three or four races! But I've got questions. How would this work? What would the lifecycle be like? How would it change their diet (I never liked the survive on anything, like morning dew, bit of d&d Dragons)? Their social interactions, and what sorts of society and culture they tend to put together? Their interactions with scalykind minions? How and why they put together their hoards, and out of what? What about half dragons and non true dragons? How would it change anatomy? Psychology and instincts of dragons? What Dragon lore mortals would tend to collect? For example, what might be a good reason for mortals to not know this about dragons? What if a group of young adult (re: teenage) dragons themselves don't know this fact about themselves? How might that work? What are some good groupings for each terrain type? What about all the weird dragon subspecies?

lylsyly
2020-07-08, 02:15 PM
I'm sure that Nifft will be along shortly ;-). I would like to hear more about it myself ;-)

here is where he said it (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614937-Half-dragon-half-dragon-do-they-breed-true)

Crake
2020-07-09, 06:25 AM
Oriental adventures has dragons that do something like this: The lung dragons. They start off as carp-dragons for the first three age categories, and can grow into a variety of different dragons from there.

thethird
2020-07-09, 08:08 AM
So I read someone on this forum had the bright idea to make it so there's only one species of dragon in the standard 3.5 setting, and the eggs metamorphose the race to suit the environment the dragon is in. I'd like some more help fleshing out this idea, which I like a lot. It means that dragons of differing alignments are likely to rub shoulders and not necessarily fight one another, for example. Maybe a single clutch could have three or four races! But I've got questions. How would this work? What would the lifecycle be like? How would it change their diet (I never liked the survive on anything bit)? Their social interactions, and what sorts of society and culture they tend to put together? Their interactions with scalykind minions? How and why they put together their hoards, and out of what? What about half dragons and non true dragons? How would it change anatomy? Psychology and instincts of dragons? What Dragon lore mortals would tend to collect? What if a group of young adult (re: teenage) dragons themselves don't know this fact about themselves? How might that work? What are some good groupings for each terrain type? What about all the weird dragon subspecies?

I would look into doing a little homebrew to streamline dragons a lot more than they are. Pathfinders streamlined dragon age advancements are a good first step. Then make an average wyrmling (which would be the same for all dragons) and have the dragon advancement applied to that base wyrmling, gaining any ability it should have had if it had been a specific wyrmling.

Gavinfoxx
2020-07-09, 09:06 AM
I was just thinking the adaptation happens in the egg. That makes things simple!

daremetoidareyo
2020-07-09, 09:41 AM
That's cool. Like how the sex of some turtles is determined by nest temperature.

Another option is to make the different dragon colors indicate their emotional state and disposition. You might have to do a generic stat block, and then limit the colors abilities as self states that take a round to shift into.

Gavinfoxx
2020-07-09, 09:54 AM
No. I don't want to write up unified stats for 300 dragon types. Part of the point is to have more than just chromatic and metallic dragons available. What about all the other categories?

Quertus
2020-07-09, 10:01 AM
"color" is a prestige class that gets added to the "Dragon" base class. However, each "color" class has as a prerequisite "no levels in any (other) color class".

thethird
2020-07-09, 11:04 AM
I was just thinking the adaptation happens in the egg. That makes things simple!

In that case balancing dragons against each other is probably not as important (although I would still look into streamlining their stats a bit more).

I would look into WhamBamSam's Dragon Handbook (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?303204-The-Truest-of-the-True-A-Handbook-to-non-Kobold-Dragons-(WIP)) specially at the section of dragons for player characters as that should give you some list of dragons to check.

Then I would go check those dragons and check the environment line in their monster entry. And group those.

As for other draconic creatures. If you are touching on the ecology of dragons, maybe you want to make kobolds be unfertilized dragon eggs that dragons lay to protect their cavern. All Kobolds aspire to evolve into dragons. Some evolve somewhat and transform in some draconic creature or another (looking at you dragonspawn).

Gavinfoxx
2020-07-09, 12:03 PM
Look, I'm more asking for social and lore and setting implications than mechanical stuff. Should I ask moderators to move this in the general roleplaying forum?

Nifft
2020-07-09, 09:55 PM
My thing was that IMC a dragon can attune itself to an area, and the environment of that area will express itself in the dragon's color & abilities.

The metaphysics is that dragons own territory, both in a realpolitik way and a mystical-connection way. The dragon is the king of his land, and the land and the king are one.

There's nothing about eggs changing colors, nor about the color being fixed for the life of the dragon. For that game, the dragon's color is a deliberate choice. In fact I'd expect a dragon could move to a different area, attune itself to that area, and change colors. (Thus reinforcing the superiority of dragons, since a mere tiger can't change its stripes.)

Perhaps a dragon who makes a deal with a devil becomes a Hellfire Wyrm.

Perhaps a dragon who wins Dark Souls becomes a Sunwyrm.

Yahzi Coyote
2020-07-10, 09:31 PM
This is how dragons on Prime work:



There are six colors of dragons, which correspond to the six moral alignments. Only the primordial form, the Black dragon, reproduces – by creating new eggs called chrysalises. Every ten thousand years of a dragon’s life, it returns to chrysalis form for a hundred years, and then hatches as a dragon of the next color. All White dragons started life as Black dragons, over fifty thousand years ago. - Explorers of Prime (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/224657/Explorers-of-Prime).

So they go through all of the alignments and colors, each stage regretting the mistakes of the one before.

This does result in only six dragon colors, though, not hundreds. I figure the average adventuring party only ever encounters a handful of dragons anyway, though. :smallbiggrin:

aglondier
2020-07-14, 05:08 AM
I think I would picture it along the lines of a 40k Eldar Path. An emotion/occupation/philosophy that they pursue for a time. A protective young adult Gold might lose his mate to dragonslayers and turn to the destructive catharsis of being Red for a time, before fading into a contemplative Amethyst or penitent Silver...