War Cleric X / Rogue 1+? - progression help

[Remover of Obst]

Working on a character for groups that may be lacking healing and someone proficient with thieves’ tools or perception skills. I am planning on starting with a level of rogue and then going war domain cleric and picking up a heavy crossbow. Ranged combat medic kind of feel.

With variant human - I could pick up Observant for battlefield awareness and start with three 16s (Dex, Con, Wis)… and three 8s. I like the idea of starting with expertise in Perception with Observant. I was also considering Sharpshooter or Resilient - Con. Any thoughts on which feat to start with? Probably won’t get another feat for quite a few levels if I prioritize Wisdom and also Dexterity ASI’s. I don’t expect to be the main damage dealer, but I hope to be able to outpace cantrip damage.

The bigger question is how many rogue levels to take and when. Rogue 2 is really tempting to get Cunning Action and then that opens up Arcane Trickster or another subclass for one level more. I was originally thinking of starting with Rogue for the extra skills and being able to sneak attack with a short bow for 2d6+3 from level 1, then go Cleric until at least five levels or maybe even nine or eleven levels.


TLDR - Variant Human Rogue 1, War Domain Cleric X
Skill monkey, ranged damage, main healer/buffer, etc.

1. Which feat to start with?
2. When (or if) to dip a second level (or more) in Rogue?
3. Anything else I should consider? (Fighter 1 or 2 for Archery and Action Surge or just more Cleric/Rogue levels)

[Dork_Forge]

Personally I think Rogue to 4 would be best (Cunning Action, subclass ASI and 2d6 Sneak), it's worth keeping in mind that if you use a Heavy Crossbow you won't be able to use your War Priest ability.

I'm not sure War Cleric is the best fit though, you're looking to add a healer, perception and thieve's tools presumably with decent damage and buffing. Maybe consider something like mixing Rogue with a Dreams Druid or Celestial Warlock (bonus action healing) or just taking the Healer feat on a primary/straight Rogue (it's a surprising amount of healing).

[micahaphone]

You can get thieves toola proficiency from a background, right? A bard could help support your allies, do all the skills, heal as needed

[Remover of Obst]

.... it's worth keeping in mind that if you use a Heavy Crossbow you won't be able to use your War Priest ability.


Why not?

Loading
Because of the time required to load this weapon, you can fire only one piece of ammunition from it when you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to fire it, regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make.

War Priest
From 1st level, your god delivers bolts of inspiration to you while you are engaged in battle. When you use the Attack action, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.


It was my understanding that I can make one attack per type of action which includes the reloading. So one bolt fired per Attack Action and one bolt per Bonus Action. Now if I had Extra Attack, I could only fire one bolt on the regular attack action.

Sage Advice seems to agree.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/07/20/loading-property/

[Dork_Forge]

Why not?

Loading
Because of the time required to load this weapon, you can fire only one piece of ammunition from it when you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to fire it, regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make.

War Priest
From 1st level, your god delivers bolts of inspiration to you while you are engaged in battle. When you use the Attack action, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.


It was my understanding that I can make one attack per type of action which includes the reloading. So one bolt fired per Attack Action and one bolt per Bonus Action. Now if I had Extra Attack, I could only fire one bolt on the regular attack action.

Sage Advice seems to agree.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/07/20/loading-property/

Well I'll be, many apologies on that one, early DM decision I got regarding it stuck in my head, heavy crossbow on!

[MrStabby]

If you want to go cleric 1 rogue x, can I pitch going melee instead? See if you DM allows shield master to be used before an attack; if so then play a strength focussed character and you will do decent damage and great team support. Spells like command will work particularly well with your rogue levels. With the extra AC the cleric can bring, and your uncanny dodge you are a great tank. Bei g a combat medic benefits from being close to the people you want to stabilise.

[CTurbo]

You could make a decent War Cleric/Rogue archer, but going Ranger/Rogue would make a MUCH better archer and still offer some healing.

Usually Gloom Stalker is best for a small 3 level dip, but using a Heavy Crossbow without the Crossbow Master feat, I think Hunter with Colossus Slayer would be better. If you were wanting to take Crossbow Expert anyway(heavy crossbow still benefits from 2/3 of the features), I'd do Gloom Stalker instead.

Taking 1 level of War Cleric would still be nice anyway getting to cast Bless twice per day and the limited War Priest feature would be worth the dip.

If Ranger doesn't interest you, I'd probably just go War Cleric 1/Rogue 19 and for an archer, I'd probably go Arcane Trickster.

[Remover of Obst]

Thanks for the replies.

I think I will try to keep this character Wis/Dex based and go deeper with Cleric (at least 9 levels cleric eventually). I think the spells are typically more useful to the party then a bit more sneak attack damage. Starting with 10+5+3+2+2 for a passive perception of 22 seems pretty fun and could keep us out of being surprised or other nastiness.

Getting more rogue levels is very appealing. Let me know if I am making a mistake delaying getting a second (third or four) level of rogue until after level 10 (Rogue 1/Cleric 9). Cunning action especially can be so useful. I could see using Bonus Action Disengage to run through a crowd of enemies to land a Guided Strike Inflict Wounds on a boss.


PS I will probably have Azorius Background available for things like Ensnaring Strike, Counterspell, or Message. That would get me a few spells I would be looking at with Ranger or Bard. I would probably use Bless over Hunter's Mark anyway and I have a few option for extra damage on attacks via the War Domain Spells.

Thanks again.

[da newt]

I believe Cunning Action is one of the most useful feats in DnD. I'd strongly recommend 2 lvls of rogue just for that. The option to Dash, Disengage or Hide every round is HUGE. I find I use it just about every round.