Shield "is probably the best defensive spell in the game"

[Christew]

What it says on the tin. Offshoot of another thread where the original quote named Mirror Image. My immediate thought was Foresight, the thread's immediate response was Holy Aura.

My second thought was that this is an insanely complicated question:
- what is required to cast it (action, bonus action, reaction, etc)
- does it require concentration
- in what tiers is it most relevant
- in what context is it most relevant
- what is the opportunity cost to be able to cast it
- what defines a "defensive" versus a not "defensive" spell

These are the kind of things that keep me up at night. Thoughts?

Edit (7/11 1:23): Current count.
- Mirror Image: 2
- Foresight: 2
- Holy Aura: 1
- Animate Objects: 2
- Conjure X: 3
- Misty Step: 2
- Invulnerability: 2
- Shield: 11
- Armor of Agathys: 1
- Absorb Elements: 3
- Prismatic Wall: 1
- Planeshift: 1
- Non-detection: 1
- Wish: 2
- Spirit Guardians: 1
- Protection from Good and Evil: 3
- Disguise Self: 1
- True Polymorph: 1
- Teleport: 1
- Heroes' Feast: 2
- Fog Cloud: 3
- Bless: 1
- Pass without Trace: 2
- Sanctuary: 3
- Blink: 1
- Shadow of Moil: 1

Shield seems dominant.

[Tvtyrant]

What it says on the tin. Offshoot of another thread where the original quote named Mirror Image. My immediate thought was Foresight, the thread's immediate response was Holy Aura.

My second thought was that this is an insanely complicated question:
- what is required to cast it (action, bonus action, reaction, etc)
- does it require concentration
- in what tiers is it most relevant
- in what context is it most relevant
- what is the opportunity cost to be able to cast it
- what defines a "defensive" versus a not "defensive" spell

These are the kind of things that keep me up at night. Thoughts?

Animate Objects or Conjure X *Ducks under thrown table*

[Nifft]

It looks like you tried to type a swear word in the thread title.

Regarding the topic, I'll say Misty Step. Getting into a defensible location where you can avoid being attacked is better than imposing a miss chance on your attacker.

[kazaryu]

What it says on the tin. Offshoot of another thread where the original quote named Mirror Image. My immediate thought was Foresight, the thread's immediate response was Holy Aura.

My second thought was that this is an insanely complicated question:
- what is required to cast it (action, bonus action, reaction, etc)
- does it require concentration
- in what tiers is it most relevant
- in what context is it most relevant
- what is the opportunity cost to be able to cast it
- what defines a "defensive" versus a not "defensive" spell

These are the kind of things that keep me up at night. Thoughts?

i mean, the obvious answer is invulnerability. :shrug:

[Man_Over_Game]

Eh, Shield is pretty hard to match. You'll almost always know it's relevant, it doesn't distract from your primary spell cast choices, and what the heck else were you spending that level 1 slot on?

[Civis Mundi]

I'm not sure it's foresight, even in a vacuum where all spell slots and situations are considered more or less equal. Defensively, it's pretty much just blur. It's much more powerful as an offensive tool.

I'm going to throw in another vote for shield. You'll use it all the way from 1-20+.

Mirror image is great, but I've been playing a Bladesinger who relies on it for some time now, and I've definitely experienced its drawbacks a time or two. I've been eyeing blink, though I haven't picked it up and haven't found the spell anywhere, but there is a crucial boon that only mirror image grants. If you're not on the Ethereal Plane from blink, not even shield can't save you from a crit—but mirror image can.

All in all though, I still give it to shield. No other spell has saved my bacon so many times. In fact, I've probably used it more than any other spell.

EDIT: I'll add that I'm not the biggest fan of misty step. Not that it's not a great spell, because it most certainly is. But a 2nd level slot for a bonus action 30' teleport that removes your ability to cast anything but a cantrip never quite sits right with me. I tend to prefer high-mobility characters with other ways to get out of trouble though, so I might be biased. A more conventional wizard might get a lot more mileage, and the Vengeance Paladin in my main party swears by it.

[micahaphone]

This is certainly the right forum to check

You can't hit yourself with Banishment, right? it instantaneously returns you to right where you were? If you could, that'd be a neat trick.

[Christew]

It looks like you tried to type a swear word in the thread title.
Broken underscore key or epic level marketing ploy?

[MrCharlie]

This is certainly the right forum to check

You can't hit yourself with Banishment, right? it instantaneously returns you to right where you were? If you could, that'd be a neat trick.
If you're on another plane you absolutely can. But the harmless demiplane version incapacitates you, and incapacitation ends concentration (which is actually really odd at times, as some types of incapacitation are purely physical, but still).

Technically, resilient sphere is one of the best self-defense spells in the game. It's utterly inviolable-the one negative is it can be dispelled-and is the earliest such spell in the game. Wall of force and other options come later. But I'd argue the best defense spell in terms of effect is actually prismatic wall, because it gives you an incredible strong defensive barrier that can't be dispelled nor countered with disintegration and other effects, lets you freely move through it, and can be used offensively with allied support or a few common spells (gust, thunderwave). The huge negative is the spell level and the fact that it does not move, but because it's so hard to bypass or ignore its excellent at what it does-set up a stable platform for you to peak out of and kill.

Otherwise, Armor of Agathys, Shield, absorb elements, and counterspell are all equally bonkers. Armor of Agathys is only really good if you upcast spells for "Free", but if you do it's surprisingly awesome; few creatures are immune to cold and most enemies make melee attacks. It almost makes Warlock bearable. Shield and Absorb elements are both just unfair, granting one of the highest AC bonuses and the effects of a successful DEX save against a hundred or so effects on command, at a low enough spell level that you can spam them freely. Counterspell is incredibly good against spellcasters, to the point where the blue v. blue meta of DnD is defined by whom can get in a position to counterspell the other party freely.

Misty step is another great one, but it's tangential to typical defense and hurts your offense to much as a spellcaster when you cast it. Invulnerability is largely overrated because dispel magic exists and most of the gamebreaking spells are either concentration or 9th level, meaning you limit your offense severely by casting it; characters with boons of high magic and similar bonuses may get more mileage.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Plane Shift + non detection/Wish

If you are not there they can't hurt you.

Wish can do whatever you want so just wish to never be hurt, it will completely destroy your body soul and the memory of you so nothing be able to hurt you. Because you can't hurt something that isn't exist and you don't know about.

[Contrast]

A lot really depends on how we're defining 'best' and 'defensive'.

If best is talking about efficiency then maybe Absorb Elements in a fight again a dragon will absorb the most damage with the lowest level slots and smallest action economy impact...but does that mean much in a general adventuring day if you don't encounter any elemental damage at all?

If we're not talking about efficiency then Invulnerability makes you totally immune to damage...but is that actually worth it and if it isn't worth it can it be considered the best?

And as has already been mentioned, often the best 'defensive' spell is just something like Conjure Animals which puts a load of bodies inbetween you and the person trying to attack you that they need to get through. I was actually going to make an argument for Spirt Guardians being a very strong defensive spell in certain situations when combined with the dodge action.

[Chrizzt]

i mean, the obvious answer is invulnerability. :shrug:

Invulnerability has a costly compoment which is consumed. So it is nothing you would cast on a regular basis like foresight.


I'm not sure it's foresight, even in a vacuum where all spell slots and situations are considered more or less equal. Defensively, it's pretty much just blur. It's much more powerful as an offensive tool. :shrug:
Foresight also gives you advantage an all saving throws and advantage on initiative and counterspelling, which might again help you protect yourself against other threats.

In general, it's great that the spell has a long duration (8h; if you can somehow get it as a sorcerer with extend spell MM this becomes 16h) and no concentration.

[DevilMcam]

In my experience, blink is a terrible spell.
Maybe yoi won't get hit but someone else will in your stead. So as far as party resources go you are spending a 3rd level spell slots to drain someone else hitpoints instead of yours. Whilenpreventing you to use your reaction to AoO or counterspells
Or maybe not because the spell effect is completely random.

[nickl_2000]

Shield and Absorb Elements

You only use them when you need them, they are level 1 slots and both instantly prevent damage when you cast them. Since it's reactive you aren't casting a spell on an encounter where other PCs destroy in 1 round (or the parties bard gets off a perfect hypnotic pattern).

[Willie the Duck]

Protection from Good and Evil ought to be in the running -- first level spell with 10 minute duration, and gives immunity to three highly disruptive status effects from most of the creatures* that would be inflicting them.
*other than enemy spellcasters of PC-like races

[MrStabby]

Disguise self.

If you dont look like someone the bad guys want to kill it is a great way for avoiding damage.

[Hael]

My vote would be for True polymorph. Just for the sheer amount of potential hit points, resistances and different defensive abilities that you can potentially get.

[Bloodcloud]

Shield, for how long and often it can be used and how little opportunity cost it has. Others are great, but shield is an absolute king.

[Aaron Underhand]

Wish

If you've got wish you've got contingency, simulacrum and clone, and any other spell you'd like. It's not reactive, and it's not a bonus action to cast but it is very flexible...

[Sigreid]

Teleport seems like a good contender. Karate Kid taught me that the best defense is to "No be there".

[stoutstien]

Hero's feast if gold or spell slot cost are not hard to swing. Just does so much without taking concentration that I would have to put it up there

[KorvinStarmast]

Fog cloud.

It gets bigger when you up cast it, and it can provide a whole lot of different ways to not be seen, to cover an escape, or to seal off bits of the battlefield against monsters with sight

I am a huge fan.

Heh, a DM used it against us in a battle with giants; when the cloud giant dropped a fog cloud about halfway through the battle, it disrupted our tactics and the ranged attacks for a couple of rounds. Tactically flexible tool, is fog cloud.

[ImproperJustice]

Heroes Feast

Party wide (including mounts maybe), no concentration 24 hour buff that provides immunity to poison and fear.

Then advantage on Wisdom Saves and a max hit point boost (stacking with temp HP) to boot.


Most cast spell by my Cleric, period. Next to Death Ward and Aid.

[micahaphone]

Heroes Feast

Party wide (including mounts maybe)



You let your horse join you at the table?

[Nifft]

You let your horse join you at the table?

You can re-arrange the letters in "Heroes" to spell "Horsee", so it's obviously intentional.

[Jamesps]

I'll throw in a vote for shield. It's not the most versatile, but by the time you start getting your super-defense spells like Foresight and Invulnerability you can use shield all day long at no cost (other than your reaction).

If you want to do this with metrics, count up all the damage you prevent for yourself from levels 1-20 with any given spell. Shield should outpace everything else.

[Willie the Duck]

You can re-arrange the letters in "Heroes" to spell "Horsee", so it's obviously intentional.
"Heroes Feast" anagrams directly into "A Fête's Horse," so inviting a horse to your party just makes sense.

[KorvinStarmast]

You can re-arrange the letters in "Heroes" to spell "Horsee", so it's obviously intentional.


"Heroes Feast" anagrams directly into "A Fête's Horse," so inviting a horse to your party just makes sense. We have a horse in our party; he's taking a few days off while we get his plate barding made. (Currently crawling around a dungeon, he's back in town chillin' and being well pampered at the stable ....)
On his birthday, we'll have a A Horse's Fête :smallsmile:

[Darc_Vader]

I’d have to throw another vote in for Shield just for how low cost it is and how unlikely you are to waste it.


Fog cloud.
...
I am a huge fan.

You may want to stay away from Fog Cloud then, you might disperse it early

[JellyPooga]

Fog cloud.

Seconded. Absolutely seconded.

Fog Cloud is like Darkness except:
- It's lower level
- It's got a larger AoE (20ft vs. 15ft)
- It scales (at equal, 2nd, level the radius is 40ft vs. 15ft)
- It lasts up to six times as long (10min vs. 1 hour)
- Is countered by less other spells
- Affects Devils and other creatures that can see in darkness (including those with Truesight)

Absolutely solid defensive spell that stays relevent for the entire game.

[Civis Mundi]

In my experience, blink is a terrible spell.
Maybe yoi won't get hit but someone else will in your stead. So as far as party resources go you are spending a 3rd level spell slots to drain someone else hitpoints instead of yours. Whilenpreventing you to use your reaction to AoO or counterspells
Or maybe not because the spell effect is completely random.

That is a great point, thank you.

I like to live dangerously, AC-tanking with my squishy Wizard HP (and backed up by a Vengeance Paladin). Blink is awful at that, for all the reasons you pointed out. Even someone who wants to stay away from the frontlines is hampered by the lack of reactions. I'll still scribe it if I ever come upon it, but I think its role in a Wizard's repertoire is pretty niche. I think its main utility might be if you're in full retreat. Even then though, 1) not being able to counterspell any attempts to punish or block your retreat is not good at all, 2) 50/50 chance it doesn't work anyway and 3) dimension door really is the premiere retreat spell (among its many other uses). And you can take someone with you, instead of blinking away like a selfish buttface.

So you know what? No, blink can just remove itself from my spell list for all I care.

[Man_Over_Game]

That is a great point, thank you.

I like to live dangerously, AC-tanking with my squishy Wizard HP (and backed up by a Vengeance Paladin). Blink is awful at that, for all the reasons you pointed out. Even someone who wants to stay away from the frontlines is hampered by the lack of reactions. I'll still scribe it if I ever come upon it, but I think its role in a Wizard's repertoire is pretty niche. I think its main utility might be if you're in full retreat. Even then though, 1) not being able to counterspell any attempts to punish or block your retreat is not good at all, 2) 50/50 chance it doesn't work anyway and 3) dimension door really is the premiere retreat spell (among its many other uses). And you can take someone with you, instead of blinking away like a selfish buttface.

So you know what? No, blink can just remove itself from my spell list for all I care.

I think it'd be a good QoL change to make Blink allow you to spend your Reaction at any point to Blink to the other side early.

[Civis Mundi]

I think it'd be a good QoL change to make Blink allow you to spend your Reaction at any point to Blink to the other side early.

The problem is, you'd use your reaction to blink back, and then you wouldn't have it to cast whatever you wanted to blink back for in the first place. Unless that reaction was just to appear, and be a potential target. But then why cast it in the first place?

No, I have the zeal of a new convert. Down with blink!

[ImproperJustice]

You can re-arrange the letters in "Heroes" to spell "Horsee", so it's obviously intentional.

I mean, in our party we have in addition to the six PCs.

Two Paladin Mounts, an awakened Panther, a Beastmaster pet Bloodhawk, an awakened baby T-Rex, an wakened Stalk of wheat, and usually a guest NPC of some kind on any given adventuring day....

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Bless. +1 to 4 for all saves for 3 of the group.
Honorable mention to Pass Without Trace which can prevent the entire party from getting smashed.
I tend to think abilities that impact more than 1 character get under rated.

[Civis Mundi]

Bless. +1 to 4 for all saves for 3 of the group.
Honorable mention to Pass Without Trace which can prevent the entire party from getting smashed.
I tend to think abilities that impact more than 1 character get under rated.

I still go shield, but these are also great points. Pass without trace is incredible as both a defensive and an offensive tool. You can avoid combat, or initiate it on your terms. It's definitely another spell that gets a lot of mileage at my table. I think it's better than invisiblity for sure, though I'm still a big fan of invisibility, and there are things it can do which pass without trace can't.

This is a bit of sidebar, but what I'm not a fan of is greater invisibility. I usually have something more important to concentrate on in combat anyway. Generally, I've found it more useful to upcast invisibility and make multiple people invisible than to cast greater invisibility and make one person super-invisible.

[KorvinStarmast]

You may want to stay away from Fog Cloud then, you might disperse it early Golf clap 👍⛳ :smallsmile:

Bless. +1 to 4 for all saves for 3 of the group.
Honorable mention to Pass Without Trace which can prevent the entire party from getting smashed.
I tend to think abilities that impact more than 1 character get under rated. when you up cast it, it can cover more people too.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, you can target one additional creature for each slot level above 1st. Handy when high DC saves are in the offing ... but thinking back, I only recall casting it at a higher level than 1st for one party, and that was back in abou 2015; had a group where five or six folks would usually show up, and I liked to give them all bless as we got into encounters with a lot of enemy spell casters ...

[MrCharlie]

I'll second protection from good and evil. Action economy wise it's outpaced at higher levels, but in terms of utility it's one of the best solutions to half a dozen types of enemies. It, along with Remove Curse and Dispel Magic, are indispensable to a mid level party and should be represented among someone in the group. It's a bit out of the realm of traditional "Defensive spells", but these should count.

(Also, a surprising number of monsters are cursed in lore, which you may be able to turn them back into people with, depending on DM-YMMV significantly, but driders, werewolves, medusa...)

If we expand the list of effects, freedom from movement, death ward, and aid are all excellent. Aid in particular is often overlooked, but I'd argue every cleric should probably spam their 2nd level spells on it once they are in tier 3, simply because 5 more HP is just enough to negate a killing blow. Otherwise, these spells become very strong at higher tiers when you can use spell slots more freely, and death ward in particular is actually very good. Death ward and aid are also broken for divine souls (or, indeed, any sorcerer/cleric multi-class, not that this is a popular choice).

I'll second fog cloud as well, is only because it evens the playing ground with truesight creatures and devils, and is one of the few abilities that does that. It's also got a radius that covers skyscrapers at high levels, so that's something as well.

[Roland St. Jude]

It looks like you tried to type a swear word in the thread title.Sheriff: Thread title changed to avoid this appearance.

[Misterwhisper]

Shield.

Many casters can get it.
It just is a reaction.
It lasts an entire round.
It is cheap and stays level 1.
Works on all attack rolls magic or mundane.
Is amazing and life saving 1 - 20.
Doesn’t interfere with anyone else in the party.
Honestly, if it could be cast on others it would be way OP.

[RSP]

Nothing stated has made me change my mind that it’s anything other than Shield.

Low resource, good defense from 1-20.

The only spell I’d say has a chance of unseating it hasn’t even been mentioned yet:

Sanctuary, which can, indeed, be better than Shield a lot of times for the same resource.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Protection from Good and Evil ought to be in the running -- first level spell with 10 minute duration, and gives immunity to three highly disruptive status effects from most of the creatures* that would be inflicting them.
*other than enemy spellcasters of PC-like races

Second vote for this. Disadvantage on being attacked by the Balor is always appreciated.

[Civis Mundi]

Sanctuary, which can, indeed, be better than Shield a lot of times for the same resource.

That is a good point--sanctuary allows you to offer protection to anyone, not just yourself, for the same resource. But it's got some big drawbacks that make me generally avoid it as a spell, especially if it's between sanctuary and shield.


It's a bonus action, not a reaction. That means it can only be cast pre-emptively, as an attempt to avert potential danger, rather than immediate danger.
Because you have to use it on your turn, it limits the rest of your casting that turn to cantrips. That's the trade-off with any bonus action spell, though.
Sanctuary relies on a save, which in turn relies on your spellcasting ability. Shield does not, making it a better option for a greater variety of builds.
There are a bunch of scenarios where it doesn't work at all. When I think of the times I'd most want to cast it, I imagine something like a lone frontliner in danger of going down and being mobbed by enemies, or a lone backliner getting caught out of position and mobbed themselves. But in any scenario, there's always a chance that the enemies in question simply pass their saves and hit you anyway. If there is another ally in range, it might simply redirect the damage, rather than preventing it. And if the initiative doesn't roll your way, the spell could be wasted entirely. If your target isn't you and they go before their enemies, they break the spell unless things are truly dire and they spend their action defensively, forfeiting a beat in the tempo of the battle. I've had more than one sanctuary broken by hot-headed, never-say-die party members in particular. Knowing your audience is a part of that, but shield can play to any room.

[ImproperJustice]

I still go shield, but these are also great points. Pass without trace is incredible as both a defensive and an offensive tool. You can avoid combat, or initiate it on your terms. It's definitely another spell that gets a lot of mileage at my table. I think it's better than invisiblity for sure, though I'm still a big fan of invisibility, and there are things it can do which pass without trace can't.

This is a bit of sidebar, but what I'm not a fan of is greater invisibility. I usually have something more important to concentrate on in combat anyway. Generally, I've found it more useful to upcast invisibility and make multiple people invisible than to cast greater invisibility and make one person super-invisible.

I like it specifically on a Feylock using Elven Accuracy and Eldritch Blast, as it combines defense and buffs offense by providing advantage on attacks.

[MaxWilson]

That is a good point--sanctuary allows you to offer protection to anyone, not just yourself, for the same resource. But it's got some big drawbacks that make me generally avoid it as a spell, especially if it's between sanctuary and shield.


It's a bonus action, not a reaction. That means it can only be cast pre-emptively, as an attempt to avert potential danger, rather than immediate danger.
Because you have to use it on your turn, it limits the rest of your casting that turn to cantrips. That's the trade-off with any bonus action spell, though.
Sanctuary relies on a save, which in turn relies on your spellcasting ability. Shield does not, making it a better option for a greater variety of builds.
There are a bunch of scenarios where it doesn't work at all. When I think of the times I'd most want to cast it, I imagine something like a lone frontliner in danger of going down and being mobbed by enemies, or a lone backliner getting caught out of position and mobbed themselves. But in any scenario, there's always a chance that the enemies in question simply pass their saves and hit you anyway. If there is another ally in range, it might simply redirect the damage, rather than preventing it. And if the initiative doesn't roll your way, the spell could be wasted entirely. If your target isn't you and they go before their enemies, they break the spell unless things are truly dire and they spend their action defensively, forfeiting a beat in the tempo of the battle. I've had more than one sanctuary broken by hot-headed, never-say-die party members in particular. Knowing your audience is a part of that, but shield can play to any room.


Aside from the more mainline scenarios like "Sanctuary on the paralyzed guy to prevent him from getting auto-critted this round", one fun (but niche) way to use Sanctuary is on a Cleric 1/Enchanter 2+ or an Artificer 1/Enchanter 2+. You may or may not already be concentrating on a big spell, but then instead of casting cantrips, you cast Sanctuary and then go Hypnotic Gaze the biggest bad guy you can spot. Between high AC, Shield, and Sanctuary it's pretty safe, and Hypnotic Gaze does not break Sanctuary.

Even in the scenarios you mention, like "a lone frontliner in danger of going down and being mobbed by enemies", Sanctuary is still useful. If you're really worried about going down you can Dodge + Sanctuary, but if you're just pre-empting the possibility Sanctuary makes sense if you can spare the spell slots and don't have access to Shield.

[Civis Mundi]

Aside from the more mainline scenarios like "Sanctuary on the paralyzed guy to prevent him from getting auto-critted this round...

...Even in the scenarios you mention, like "a lone frontliner in danger of going down and being mobbed by enemies", Sanctuary is still useful. If you're really worried about going down you can Dodge + Sanctuary, but if you're just pre-empting the possibility Sanctuary makes sense if you can spare the spell slots and don't have access to Shield.

The problem is, there's still a chance the offenders pass the save, and auto-crit paralyzed guy anyway. This chance gets higher and higher the more enemies threaten that auto-crit. It's also much less useful against targets with high WIS saves, which can be particularly scary.

I'm not saying sanctuary isn't a good spell, especially on characters without access to shield, as you mentioned. But I've definitely found it to be much more situational than shield, or other defensive spells at its level. It is really nice to have on an Order Cleric though, which is one of my personal favorite Cleric subclasses.


...one fun (but niche) way to use Sanctuary is on a Cleric 1/Enchanter 2+ or an Artificer 1/Enchanter 2+. You may or may not already be concentrating on a big spell, but then instead of casting cantrips, you cast Sanctuary and then go Hypnotic Gaze the biggest bad guy you can spot. Between high AC, Shield, and Sanctuary it's pretty safe, and Hypnotic Gaze does not break Sanctuary.

This I absolutely LOVE. I'm going to have to fool around with a bunch of versions of this build today. Thank you.

[MaxWilson]

The problem is, there's still a chance the offenders pass the save, and auto-crit paralyzed guy anyway. This chance gets higher and higher the more enemies threaten that auto-crit. It's also much less useful against targets with high WIS saves, which can be particularly scary.

I mean, yeah, it's a dice game and you can get unlucky. It's definitely less reliable than grabbing the paralyzed guy and Dimension Dooring away, but that kind of full-panic reaction isn't often appropriate. Maybe if the paralyzed guy was the only one in the party capable of casting Revivify, that would be appropriate--though a Paladin couldn't do that anyway (i. e. cast Dimension Door) so the two spells don't necessarily compete.

You tilt the odds in your favor as best you can and then you play things out. Sanctuary isn't as strong defensively as e. g. Wall of Force but it's _cheap_ (bonus action, 1st level, no concentration) , so you use it where efficiency matters more than performance, especially if you have a good cantrip or non-spell primary Action.

Note that Hypnotic Gaze + Sanctuary also is more about cheap than strong, even if you pair it with Invisibility or Blur: you can still get unlucky on your dice, and you should only use this combo when that's okay!

Further note: Hypnotic Gaze lasts as long as you're willing to spend your action on it, or until the target takes damage. You can keep the bad guy hypnotized while your friends grapple it, knock it prone, disarm it, restrain it with nets or manacles, ready attacks, spend an hour casting Planar Binding on it, attempt to drown it, or whatever.

[Bobthewizard]

It is really nice to have on an Order Cleric though, which is one of my personal favorite Cleric subclasses.

You could also try Order cleric 1 / Evoker X. Sculpt spells lets you pick targets to auto save and then take no damage, but they are still targeted by the spell, so if you have a rogue in your party, you can drop a fireball on them, sculpt the spell and then let them use their reaction to attack.

[Civis Mundi]

I mean, yeah, it's a dice game and you can get unlucky. It's definitely less reliable than grabbing the paralyzed guy and Dimension Dooring away, but that kind of full-panic reaction isn't often appropriate. Maybe if the paralyzed guy was the only one in the party capable of casting Revivify, that would be appropriate--though a Paladin couldn't do that anyway (i. e. cast Dimension Door) so the two spells don't necessarily compete.

You tilt the odds in your favor as best you can and then you play things out. Sanctuary isn't as strong defensively as e. g. Wall of Force but it's _cheap_ (bonus action, 1st level, no concentration) , so you use it where efficiency matters more than performance, especially if you have a good cantrip or non-spell primary Action.

You're not wrong about luck. I do still think sanctuary's a good spell, I just think if it's competing with shield, which is strong, cheap, and much harder to waste. Of course, it can only protect you. So its power might depend on how much you value being able to cast it on others, which is admittedly pretty valuable.


Note that Hypnotic Gaze + Sanctuary also is more about cheap than strong, even if you pair it with Invisibility or Blur: you can still get unlucky on your dice, and you should only use this combo when that's okay!

Further note: Hypnotic Gaze lasts as long as you're willing to spend your action on it, or until the target takes damage. You can keep the bad guy hypnotized while your friends grapple it, knock it prone, disarm it, restrain it with nets or manacles, ready attacks, spend an hour casting Planar Binding on it, attempt to drown it, or whatever.

Some of the best moments in D&D do come when the dice ruin your well-made plans. Even the death of a character relying on this combo is sure to be a sight to behold.

[JellyPooga]

Nothing stated has made me change my mind that it’s anything other than Shield.

Low resource, good defense from 1-20.

The only spell I’d say has a chance of unseating it hasn’t even been mentioned yet:

Sanctuary, which can, indeed, be better than Shield a lot of times for the same resource.

My biggest issues with Shield are;
- It's a single target, self only spell
- It lasts for less than an entire round

It's a great spell, no doubt, but it comes at a high cost in spell slots for any kind of persistent defence and it doesn't help your friends. Many, if not most of the other contenders have either of these problems.

[MaxWilson]

You're not wrong about luck. I do still think sanctuary's a good spell, I just think if it's competing with shield, which is strong, cheap, and much harder to waste. Of course, it can only protect you. So its power might depend on how much you value being able to cast it on others, which is admittedly pretty valuable.

Shield also doesn't protect against spells, Neogi Charm, Beholder eye rays, Intellect Devourers, etc.

They're very different niches and overall I think Shield is significantly better, but they don't compete directly. They are both interesting spells.

[Nagog]

For me, nothing quite beats Blink. Simply not being on the same plane as your opponent when they have their turn is an amazing boon, and when combined with the 10 feet of movement upon returning? Most classes are limited to holding their actions to try and hit you, and with that movement you can be sure to just be out of range when you come back. Even if they do have the range to hit you on your return, they can only attack once (Extra Attack specifies using the Attack Action on your turn, and Bonus Actions cannot be held). Spellcasters holding spells until you reappear lose concentration on any spells they had active, as they are now concentrating on their held spells.

All that, and it doesn't require concentration, so you could also have a concentration defensive spell active as well, or if your opponent also uses Blink, hold your own spell to fire at them when you're both in the Ethereal Plane. (though I'd love to see a 1v1 Wizard duel with both of them using Blink, constantly holding cantrips until the other rolls under 10 on their Blink, XD)

[Civis Mundi]

Shield also doesn't protect against spells, Neogi Charm, Beholder eye rays, Intellect Devourers, etc.

They're very different niches and overall I think Shield is significantly better, but they don't compete directly. They are both interesting spells.

Oh, for sure. I only meant they're competing in terms of being the "best defensive spell in the game."


My biggest issues with Shield are;
- It's a single target, self only spell
- It lasts for less than an entire round

It's a great spell, no doubt, but it comes at a high cost in spell slots for any kind of persistent defence and it doesn't help your friends. Many, if not most of the other contenders have either of these problems.

I do rarely find myself pressed for shield slots with judicious use, and that's on frontline wizard. Sometimes you have to make a call though--would I rather take the hit, or burn the slot? I will also concede that it's more useful the higher your AC already is. Otherwise, you might have to use it too much.

It doesn't last for the entire round, but it does last until the start of your next turn, which can insulate you against a lot of attacks. Poor Defensive Duelist is only effective against one attack, though there's no resource cost. You get extra value when you're mobbed by enemies, which can be a particular weakness for squishier characters, even if they're an AC-tank.

EDIT: Double-posted by accident, then deleted what I wrote by accident. Never mind, couldn't have been that important.

[MaxWilson]

For me, nothing quite beats Blink. Simply not being on the same plane as your opponent when they have their turn is an amazing boon, and when combined with the 10 feet of movement upon returning? Most classes are limited to holding their actions to try and hit you, and with that movement you can be sure to just be out of range when you come back.

Eh? All a monster has to do if it has 10' reach is go stand in the square you left from. Now it's guaranteed to have you in reach when you come back. For this you gave up an action and 5 spell points? (Monsters can Ready Multiattack with no restrictions, unlike RAW Extra Attack.)

Blink could be worthwhile if you are the squishiest guy in the party (say AC 12) and the party is surrounded by tough monsters so Misty Step isn't an option. But I have yet to see a situation where Blink was worth casting on a character who prepared it--if you're the kind of player who's attracted to Blink you probably aren't the squishiest guy in the party anyway! Too many alternate defenses are possible.


Oh, for sure. I only meant they're competing in terms of being the "best defensive spell in the game."

Oh, agreed! I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that Sanctuary is the best defensive spell in the game, only that it's better than Mirror Image, which like Blink I would rate as a pretty bad defensive spell which _looks_ good on paper due to not taking concentration, but is tough to find a worthwhile use for in practice. If Sanctuary is clearly better than X, X cannot be the best, QED. I believe that is how Sanctuary entered the thread, but even in that post I specifically called out Shield as being arguably better--but it's harder to compare Shield directly to Mirror Image.

[Civis Mundi]

Oh, agreed! I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that Sanctuary is the best defensive spell in the game, only that it's better than Mirror Image, which like Blink I would rate as a pretty bad defensive spell which _looks_ good on paper due to not taking concentration, but is tough to find a worthwhile use for in practice. If Sanctuary is clearly better than X, X cannot be the best, QED. I believe that is how Sanctuary entered the thread, but even in that post I specifically called out Shield as being arguably better--but it's harder to compare Shield directly to Mirror Image.

Ah, I see, that makes sense. There's really a staggering consensus on shield. It's just that good.

Mirror image has some drawbacks, namely against large numbers of enemies, but I get a lot of use out of it as a Bladesinger, and it's still one of my favorites. The main edge it has is crit-protection, which is normally one of the main holes in a squishier AC tank's defense. That also makes it useful on other high-AC characters who are otherwise pretty squishy. Personally, I'd rather have mirror image, if I really had to choose between it and sanctuary. I have a certain extra bias in mirror image's favor though, as I prefer to play gishes, which is where it shines the most.

[MaxWilson]

Ah, I see, that makes sense. There's really a staggering consensus on shield. It's just that good.

Mirror image has some drawbacks, namely against large numbers of enemies, but I get a lot of use out of it as a Bladesinger, and it's still one of my favorites. The main edge it has is crit-protection, which is normally one of the main holes in a squishier AC tank's defense. That also makes it useful on other high-AC characters who are otherwise pretty squishy. Personally, I'd rather have mirror image, if I really had to choose between it and sanctuary. I have a certain extra bias in mirror image's favor though, as I prefer to play gishes, which is where it shines the most.

I find it somewhat surprising that you get use out of it as a Bladesinger--a high AC character normally should get very little use out of Mirror Image because many (possibly most) hits that destroy images were going to miss you anyway. On top of that, creatures with high attack bonuses that are likely enough to hit you that you'd be worried are also fairly likely to outright ignore Mirror Image due to blindsight/truesight.

Edit: can you clarify what you mean by "crit protection"? There is an extremely high chance that any given casting of Mirror Image will never intercept even a single crit before all the images get popped by non-crits that probably weren't going to hit you anyway, so I don't understand how crits are relevant. An AC 19-23ish Bladesinger with three AC 13-15 Mirror Images... any creature which hits the Bladesinger only on a crit is going to hit those Mirror Images about 5x to 10x as often as the Bladesinger, so Mirror Image is only saving you from about half a hit before it's gone.

[Civis Mundi]

I find it somewhat surprising that you get use out of it as a Bladesinger--a high AC character normally should get very little use out of Mirror Image because many (possibly most) hits that destroy images were going to miss you anyway. On top of that, creatures with high attack bonuses that are likely enough to hit you that you'd be worried are also fairly likely to outright ignore Mirror Image due to blindsight/truesight.

Edit: can you clarify what you mean by "crit protection"? There is an extremely high chance that any given casting of Mirror Image will never intercept even a single crit before all the images get popped by non-crits that probably weren't going to hit you anyway, so I don't understand how crits are relevant. An AC 19-23ish Bladesinger with three AC 13-15 Mirror Images... any creature which hits the Bladesinger only on a crit is going to hit those Mirror Images about 5x to 10x as often as the Bladesinger, so Mirror Image is only saving you from about half a hit before it's gone.

A good point on the crit protection, and this has certainly bitten me in the butt before. The main utility in both these situations is avoiding damage in the first couple rounds of the fight, swinging the tempo in your party's favor. An early crit in particular can put the party on the backfoot quickly--but this is a pretty niche case, not really worth pre-casting a 2nd level spell every fight. All told, I probably overvalue mirror image. It doesn't help that it sounds so cool.

[Christew]

Some good stuff. Seems like Shield is receiving the most traction. I may do a count and throw it up in the OP later. Also kind of surprised that no one has taken a "the best defense is a good offense" and named something like fireball.


A good point on the crit protection, and this has certainly bitten me in the butt before. The main utility in both these situations is avoiding damage in the first couple rounds of the fight, swinging the tempo in your party's favor. An early crit in particular can put the party on the backfoot quickly--but this is a pretty niche case, not really worth pre-casting a 2nd level spell every fight. All told, I probably overvalue mirror image. It doesn't help that it sounds so cool.
You are also spending a turn to get Mirror Image up, so it is of questionable value unless it lasts two turns. Don't get me wrong, I dig Mirror Image in theory, it just never seems to work out at the table the way it does in my head.

[Civis Mundi]

Some good stuff. Seems like Shield is receiving the most traction. I may do a count and throw it up in the OP later. Also kind of surprised that no one has taken a "the best defense is a good offense" and named something like fireball.


You are also spending a turn to get Mirror Image up, so it is of questionable value unless it lasts two turns. Don't get me wrong, I dig Mirror Image in theory, it just never seems to work out at the table the way it does in my head.

Yeah, it also works a lot better when you can cast it just before initiating combat. I find I’ve been using it less and less as the levels progress. At this point, it’ll probably only see niche use. This has been a pretty informative thread.

[Samayu]

My biggest issues with Shield are;
- It's a single target, self only spell
- It lasts for less than an entire round

I agree with the first point but I disagree with the second. You can theoretically cast it during your own turn. If you cast it later than that, it's only because you haven't needed it.

[JellyPooga]

I agree with the first point but I disagree with the second. You can theoretically cast it during your own turn. If you cast it later than that, it's only because you haven't needed it.

A 1 round duration is still really bad and it's even worse if you cast it on your own turn as a precaution against attacks, rather than reactively. At most, it's duration is 1 round; that's a bad thing, whichever way you want to look at it. Most, if not all the other suggestions last a minute or more pending concentration in some cases, of course, but if you're losing concentration on a defensive spell, it's arguable that it's not a very good defensive spell now, is it? :smallamused:

[Bobthewizard]

Animate Objects or Conjure X *Ducks under thrown table*

I'll agree with this. At mid game, conjure animals is so good. Surround the enemy and dare them to take 8 AOO to get to you. It changes the entire fight.

My shepherd druid is level 6 so I can't comment on how long this will last. But for now, an extra 4HP plus 11THP from the bear totem, and the CR 1/4 creatures are pretty durable.

[Dork_Forge]

I agree with the first point but I disagree with the second. You can theoretically cast it during your own turn. If you cast it later than that, it's only because you haven't needed it.

You can only cast it on your own turn if you provoke an opportunity attack or I guess at the very end of your turn if you're attacked by a Legendary action.

[MaxWilson]

You can only cast it on your own turn if you provoke an opportunity attack or I guess at the very end of your turn if you're attacked by a Legendary action.

Or if somebody hits you with a Readied action, e.g. because you're using Blink.

[Chrizzt]

For my char, the most important line of defense during a fight was certainly Shadow of Moil. It has an effect similar to Greater Invisibility (most attackers have disadvantage, they can't target you with single target spells) and if they hit, they get damage. And for bonus points you receive resistance against radiant damage.

My shadow sorcerer got it because of some kind of home brew domain spell system for sorcerers. And it fits nicely and is strong.

It was then, when an obvious paladin with wings of light was fighting against my char shrouded in darkness with dark tentacles latching out and my char being resistant to his radiance-damage based attacks, that my party of do-gooders pondered, that perhaps they allied with the wrong side...

[Civis Mundi]

For my char, the most important line of defense during a fight was certainly Shadow of Moil. It has an effect similar to Greater Invisibility (most attackers have disadvantage, they can't target you with single target spells) and if they hit, they get damage. And for bonus points you receive resistance against radiant damage.

My shadow sorcerer got it because of some kind of home brew domain spell system for sorcerers. And it fits nicely and is strong.

It was then, when an obvious paladin with wings of light was fighting against my char shrouded in darkness with dark tentacles latching out and my char being resistant to his radiance-damage based attacks, that my party of do-gooders pondered, that perhaps they allied with the wrong side...

Shadow of moil is not something most characters have access--outside of homebrew, it's only on the Warlock spell list, which has lots of competition for very few slots. It's a pretty strong spell though. Don't forget, it also prevents you from being directly targeted by spells that rely on sight.

[Christew]

You can only cast it on your own turn if you provoke an opportunity attack or I guess at the very end of your turn if you're attacked by a Legendary action.


Or if somebody hits you with a Readied action, e.g. because you're using Blink.
Or if you chose to target yourself with a dart from Magic Missile, though that would be silly 99% of the time.

[MaxWilson]

Or if you chose to target yourself with a dart from Magic Missile, though that would be silly 99% of the time.

Yes, or attack yourself. Both of those are normally silly, but it is NOT silly for an enemy to Ready an action to Multiattack you when you Blink back in, so it's relevant that Shield in that case covers you against both that Multiattack and possibly the next one (if you don't Blink out this round).

[nickl_2000]

Or if you chose to target yourself with a dart from Magic Missile, though that would be silly 99% of the time.

It isn't all that uncommon that you would cast shield to protect yourself from an Attack of Opportunity during your turn.