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Bartmanhomer
2020-07-11, 12:50 AM
There are a few definitions of RPG slang that I need to know:

1. What is "cheese"?
2. What are "splatbooks?"
3. Are they any other RPG slang that I need to know about? If so, what are they?
:confused:

Rynjin
2020-07-11, 01:07 AM
There are a few definitions of RPG slang that I need to know:

1. What is "cheese"?

The most typical definition I'd assume is consistently using RAW (Rules As Written) over RAI (Rules as Intended) with malicious intent. The idea behind "cheese" is to break the game or gain power in ways that technically work via the text of the rules, but were pretty clearly not intended by the developers of the game, and would probably not be liked by the GM or other player sin your game.

What, exactly, "cheese" is will depend on your group, but that should be a fairly consistent definition.


2. What are "splatbooks?"

I believe technically any first party (produced by the developers of the game themselves) book besides the Core Rulebook could be referred to as a splatbook, but I also believe it's typically understood to mean not just that, but books beyond the "core line" of books for an RPG.

Typically, the big releases for an RPG are hardcovers, long and involved books with a lot of direct oversight. My main experience is with Pathfinder, so the examples I'll use are from there. The Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Equipment, Advanced Class Guide, Ultimate Intrigue, etc. are the big "core" releases for the Pathfinder RPG product line. These are "mechanics first" books, meaning they're supposed to introduce a lot of new game material and player resources.

The splatbooks would instead be the soft cover releases, which typically are not given as much oversight and probably weren't meant to be "mechanics first" books in the first place. This would be books like Cheliax: Empire of Devils and other setting books that go into the lore and fictional history of different regions of the world. These also typically include some measure of mechanical content (such as the commonly taken Cornugon Smash (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/cornugon-smash-combat/) Feat) as well, but it's not a focus.

As a result, these books are a real mixed bag in terms of quality. Some of the best balanced and most interesting content comes from splatbooks, like the aforementioned Cornugon Smash and its partner Feat Hurtful (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hurtful-combat/) (from a completely different splatbook, the Monster Codex) that open up a lot of mechanical options.

In some cases...too much. The biggest sources of "cheese" tend to come from unintended interactions between various splatbooks, as these books are often written by completely different authors. Thsi is actually the case for the two aforementioned Feats; there is only ONE common author between Cheliax: Empire of Devils and teh Monster Codex, but they produced two Feats that synergize exceptionally well. This ends up not being unbalanced, but not every such interaction is so well loved.

Additionally, splatbooks have a (somewhat, but not completely undeserved) reputation for printing content that is, on its own, wildly out of step with the normal power level of the game or is simply ill thought out. The Sacred Geometry (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sacred-geometry/) is a notorious example of BOTH types of flawed design, being both wildly overpowered and having mechanics that are too complicated to the point that using the Feat actually takes a lot of time at the table just to resolve whether it works or not, bogging down play. When a Feat is well known to be complicated enough for multiple people to design an app around calculating for it (easily searchable on the Google Play store), you know you have a problem.


3. Are they any other RPG slang that I need to know about? If so, what are they?
:confused:

That's a bit too broad of a question. If you have any specific questions, ask away.

Zhorn
2020-07-11, 01:55 AM
1. What is "cheese"?
Agreeing with Rynjin, it's using a known interaction in a way that works under RAW, but goes against RAI (either being nonsensical, or sometimes game breaking).
A nonsensical example I see fairly often when I'm not DMing and a player chooses the Lucky Feat. A common interpretation (that has been clarified to work in the Sage Advice compendium) if you roll with disadvantage, or an enemy rolls against you with advantage, you can roll a third die with Lucky and choose between any one of the 3 die; turning disadvantage for you into super advantage, and turning advantage for your opponent into super disadvantage. The 'cheese' element comes in with it being very easy to cause disadvantage for yourself or give an opponent advantage against you that players can intentionally sabotage themselves with the result being the odds become BETTER for them.
Dropping prone in melee range of a bulette making it HARDER to land a bite attack on you, or
Pulling your cap down over your face blinding you before firing your crossbow because it makes you MORE accurate.

YMMV, but some take the coffeelock to be broken form of cheese, giving up sleep to make unused spell slots/points accumulate from day to day, with every short rest giving them more and more spell slots/points to work with without an upper limit. I've yet to play in a game with a coffeelock, but I hear they are a common power gamer build.

No brains
2020-07-11, 07:15 AM
Here's a thread that explains a lot of RPG terms, lingo, jargon, code, AND slang!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?18512-Common-Acronyms-Abbreviations-and-Terms

It has been helpful to me in the past and isn't quite obvious to find. It's in the collection of 'Notable threads' in the Roleplaying Games section of the forum.

1. Cheese is tasty.
2. A splat book is used to smash things.
3. RPG slang is a hydra of nonsense. Learning one term makes two more appear in its place.

el minster
2020-07-12, 02:23 AM
Cheese is when somone abuses the rules to give themself large benifits usually in a way not intended by the rules for example in 3.5 using the magic item creation rules to have gloves that grant you the effect of true strike (+20 to your next attack roll) whenever you attack somone

Anonymouswizard
2020-07-12, 05:46 AM
1) cheese varies, the way I generally see it used is an inordinately useful effect of an ability or combinationn of abilities that was unintended by designers. This doesn't have to be at the level of Munchkinery, but is incredibly powerful.

2) a splatbook has multiple definitions, originally I believe it was a term used by the World of Darkness fandom to refer to books that provided lore and options focused on a particular subset of a character type (Clanbooks, Tribe books, Kithbooks...). Because each game line had their own term *book was used to refer to the general idea, and the asterisk eventually morphed into the word splat. It seems to generally mean a more focused supplement these days, not a setting book or general sourcebook, something more like Complete Arcane than the Player's Handbook 2.

3) Munchkin, Monty Haul, RAW/RAI, possibly a few others that escape me? I've been tempted to get Rules As Played started but compared to RAW and RAI it's not as important a concept (it would mean 'the most logical reading for my table, without considering designer's intent').

MoiMagnus
2020-07-12, 07:26 AM
What is "cheese"?

Cheese is not a term exclusive to RPG, but usually means "solution/tip totally unintended by the game developer, but allowed by the rules". While broad definitions of cheese also include exploits (abuse of a rule clearly not working as it should), cheese usually describe the cases that feel more "acceptable", and could almost be considered as "unintended features" rather than "bugs".

Example outside of RPGs:
You draw a maze as a puzzle, and ask someone to solve it, saying for rule that "you must draw a continuous path that cannot cross walls, and goes from the start to the end". This person chose to draw the path around the maze rather than through the maze. That's clearly not an intended solution. That was technically allowed by your rules. But that's "acceptable" enough for some peoples to build mazes with this in mind as the intended solution (and no other solution), but not everybody would find those acceptable.
=> That's cheese.

Example in D&D5e:
The cantrip friend has for side effect of explicitly making the target hostile to you at the end of the spell. If you use this spell to forces someone to be hostile to you (in one of the corner cases where that's in your interest), that's (arguably) cheese.

Jay R
2020-07-12, 06:44 PM
These are emotional terms, and therefore there is no clear well-defined, rational definition.

Characters designed by players who won't go as far as you do are "unimaginative".

Characters designed by players who go one step farther than you do are "cheese".

Kyutaru
2020-07-17, 08:33 PM
1. What is "cheese"?

Cheese originates from the Korean Starcraft players and basically means cheaters (chi zu). To use cheese is to do something that someone might consider exploitative to the game system. Players that look for cheese are looking for loopholes in the books that let them do more than they should or resorting to unbalanced abilities to create an overpowered character.

Crake
2020-07-17, 09:30 PM
Cheese originates from the Korean Starcraft players and basically means cheaters (chi zu). To use cheese is to do something that someone might consider exploitative to the game system. Players that look for cheese are looking for loopholes in the books that let them do more than they should or resorting to unbalanced abilities to create an overpowered character.

This I think is the best, objective description of what "cheese" is. Assigning intent to the description is an emotional, knee-jerk response to those who have had bad experiences with it, and ignores the notion that some tables intentionally play with cheese for the fun of it, and not with malicious intent toward one another.

Lucas Yew
2020-07-18, 09:36 AM
Cheese originates from the Korean Starcraft players and basically means cheaters (chi zu). To use cheese is to do something that someone might consider exploitative to the game system. Players that look for cheese are looking for loopholes in the books that let them do more than they should or resorting to unbalanced abilities to create an overpowered character.

And I'm obligated to add some historic context as a Korean. At least the following did really happen in a chronological order:


The English adjective "cheesy" (cheap, insincere, etc.) existed
During StarCraft 1's run, the low-mid level Korean professional Terran players developed the Cheese Rush tactic, which sent the 60 HP SCVs on an early rush to overpower and decimate enemy base(s) of Zerg/Protoss guarded by effective 40 HP drones and probes
Non Koreans who were creamed by said bizarre strategy called it cheesy
The Korean fans apparently nicknamed the strategy as such


If your original assessment actually is true, this would be how it was probably named as such...

Kyutaru
2020-07-18, 11:45 AM
If your original assessment actually is true, this would be how it was probably named as such...

I lived through it so the assessment is spot on and it was a Korean caster that provided the explanation. You can review the details here.

http://alanroze.wikidot.com/cheese

Ashtagon
2020-07-18, 03:23 PM
I was living in Korea at the time. I probably had a personal hand in helping to name it cheesy and spread the word.

Anonymouswizard
2020-07-18, 04:32 PM
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's an older term (cheesy=smells=suspicious, seems obvious), but I'd fully believe if that's how it was popularised.

Vinyadan
2020-07-18, 05:04 PM
The most typical definition I'd assume is consistently using RAW (Rules As Written) over RAI (Rules as Intended) with malicious intent. The idea behind "cheese" is to break the game or gain power in ways that technically work via the text of the rules, but were pretty clearly not intended by the developers of the game, and would probably not be liked by the GM or other player sin your game.

What, exactly, "cheese" is will depend on your group, but that should be a fairly consistent definition.
Not to be confused with "cheese" in metal music, where it means "happy-go-lucky power metal".



3. Are they any other RPG slang that I need to know about? If so, what are they?
:confused:

MAD = Multiple Attribute Dependence, when your character needs many high attributes.

Gish = a warrior-mage. Comes from a kind of gith fighter/wizard.

GrayDeath
2020-07-18, 06:51 PM
There are a few definitions of RPG slang that I need to know: More than a few, trust me.^^

1. What is "cheese"?
2. What are "splatbooks?"
3. Are there any other RPG slang expressions that I need to know about? If so, what are they?
:confused:

As others have explained, even if one knows a lot, you never know all the slang of a specific "in Group" unless, you could probably guess, you actually interact with it.

More Serious:

I mean no offense, but its both easier and likely more fun for you to actually find Real Life RPG Games and, you know, play. And if you dont get something,a sk them nicely.

Instead of running Adventures for your own group of Characters.

And I really do write this with the best of intentions, even though your grammar and oftentimes very... strange way of writing do often rub me the wrong way.

Go out. Find some friendly people. Play some games.

And for the love of us all, please try to at the very least not mangle the English Grammar too much until then.
Its not hard, given you are american. Get some good books, read them, write something about it, check if you got it.
Dont depend on programs for grammar, dont depend on the Internet for EVERYTHING about playing.

Just Do It (Nike got its money via various shoes I bought^^).

Elysiume
2020-07-18, 07:01 PM
MAD = Multiple Attribute Dependence, when your character needs many high attributes.MAD is also often discussed alongside SAD (single-attribute) and DAD (dual-attribute) dependence.

Lvl 2 Expert
2020-07-20, 05:45 AM
I feel like the biggest ones missing here are crunch and fluff. Fluff are all storywise elements of a character/campaign/feat etc, what the stuff you're doing is supposed to represent within the world portrayed by the game, crunch is the mechanics used by the players to represent the fluff. Crunch and fluff can become pretty separated, because sometimes there are multiple valid mechanical ways to represent a particular fluff idea and sometimes there are several valid in universe representations for a particular piece of crunch.

Examples:
"I prefer crunch heavy games such as d&d 4e, they appeal to my inner powergamer."
"I'm making a ninja with the power attack feat, but I'm refluffing it as a series of super fast kicks in exactly the same spot rather than a single hard strike, because ninja."

ngilop
2020-07-21, 01:42 PM
And I'm obligated to add some historic context as a Korean. At least the following did really happen in a chronological order:


The English adjective "cheesy" (cheap, insincere, etc.) existed
During StarCraft 1's run, the low-mid level Korean professional Terran players developed the Cheese Rush tactic, which sent the 60 HP SCVs on an early rush to overpower and decimate enemy base(s) of Zerg/Protoss guarded by effective 40 HP drones and probes
Non Koreans who were creamed by said bizarre strategy called it cheesy
The Korean fans apparently nicknamed the strategy as such


If your original assessment actually is true, this would be how it was probably named as such...

I agree with this.

As decades before starcraft (let alone blizzard) was even a thing people used the term cheesy to mean underhanded and cheese as the actual underhanded thing.
EXAMPLE: That was a cheesy way to win, bro. (The cheese being a dwarf corner hug with artillery in total war warhammer)

Chiz is persian for thing btw and got smashed in with english where cheese is from the roman word for it- but i cant remember the actual word for that, but know that its the germanic pronounciation that actually made it into english) when the british were doing their red coat thing in india.

So while i guess people can take credit for a term that was in existance for some time before they used it, it kind of insulting to lay claim and ignore facts, but hey, its a different world than when I grew up so make of it what you will.

Yora
2020-07-21, 03:34 PM
Are you thinking about chess?

Which in German is Schach, which comes from the Persian Shah, which means King.

Check mate in German is Schach matt, which comes from Persian "king dead".

Kraynic
2020-07-21, 03:47 PM
And for the love of us all, please try to at the very least not mangle the English Grammar too much until then.
Its not hard, given you are american.

I just noticed this comment, and it is hilarious. As an American, I once had a British woman offer me her condolences that I would likely never hear my name pronounced correctly except by foreigners. And she was right that it is pretty rare... Mangled words swiped from other languages infuse so much of our language now, we probably couldn't communicate if we quit mangling things!

GrayDeath
2020-07-21, 05:21 PM
I just noticed this comment, and it is hilarious. As an American, I once had a British woman offer me her condolences that I would likely never hear my name pronounced correctly except by foreigners. And she was right that it is pretty rare... Mangled words swiped from other languages infuse so much of our language now, we probably couldn't communicate if we quit mangling things!

Well....ehm....sorry?^^

I meant it honestly, as a non-native speaker I did have to learn the smorgasboard of stolen, invented and found grammar rules that is English froum the "outside", so I expected at least some way it should be easier for "Natives" (granted, the British likely will never call anyone else "native" Speakers if they can avoid it, at elast my business english teacher didnt. Again granted, he might have been special, as he studied (wait for it) German AND English....in Oxford.... :P

Kyutaru
2020-07-21, 05:38 PM
Well....ehm....sorry?^^

I meant it honestly, as a non-native speaker I did have to learn the smorgasboard of stolen, invented and found grammar rules that is English froum the "outside", so I expected at least some way it should be easier for "Natives" (granted, the British likely will never call anyone else "native" Speakers if they can avoid it, at elast my business english teacher didnt. Again granted, he might have been special, as he studied (wait for it) German AND English....in Oxford.... :P

Problem is American schools had segregation to deal with. Our second highest population subculture had their own language effectively which is used even to this day and grows on its own separate from British English. Words that mean one thing in traditional English have a different connotation in AAVE. Then with communities merging and interaction occurring more in the past century the varieties are mingling into a hybrid that barely resembles its origins.

Anonymouswizard
2020-07-21, 06:55 PM
(granted, the British likely will never call anyone else "native" Speakers if they can avoid it, at elast my business english teacher didnt. Again granted, he might have been special, as he studied (wait for it) German AND English....in Oxford.... :P

We English don't call people from the other end of the country native speakers, let alone people from the country or the Isles :smalltongue:

Yeah, it's somewhat trendy, at least in the media, to complain about American English, which I think is partially because American English is much more homogenised compared to UK English. I remember moving half an hour's drive away in Year 5 and having to relearn some minor terms. It's very rarely meant seriously, and you're less likely to see 'native' disputed than 'correct'. We don't deny that they're speaking it natively, just that they're not getting words wrong. EDIT: in an affectionate way, of course.

KineticDiplomat
2020-07-30, 08:04 PM
I think others have covered cheese pretty well, though I would add that it is possible to have something that works as intended and as written still be cheesy. You can tell those because even though it is completely legitimate, it's presence makes all other playstyles fundamentally pointless and locks the game into a rut. You might say that D&D casters are cheesy, or that stick & shock ammo is in Shadowrun, etc.

As for splats, again mostly covered, but if I recall it comes partially from production values. You have your big expensive, hardback books of coreness. And then you realize that players stop paying you money after they buy those. So you need to make more content. But you don't want to pay for huge expensive new books, and you're not sure that the players who bought the original game for $X want to spend another $X on an add-on. So you print them on cheap paper bindings...and well...the ink looks splatty.

We've since surpassed that physical relic, but the idea remains - a somewhat cheaper add on that creates new content for the base game, often with a qualitative loss in production values, writing, and rules coherency.

Many players use splats to do "cool new things!", but because those things aren't nearly as well vetted as the core rules, they often become a source of cheese.

Spriteless
2020-07-30, 08:32 PM
I remember the original AD&D Savage Species splatbook gave the playable monsters cheese-making proficiency, because no one besides monsters bring cheese to your game. Was confusing to me, as a kid.

If I remember wrong, I also blame it on my being a kid.

HouseRules
2020-08-07, 07:30 AM
MAD is also often discussed alongside SAD (single-attribute) and DAD (dual-attribute) dependence.

VAD (variable-attribute) - has 3 stats and 3 dump stats. Select 1 of those three to either be primary or secondary. The remaining 2 would be the opposite of your choice. If you choose a primary attribute, the other two are secondary attributes; if you choose a secondary attribute, the other two are primary attributes.

kyoryu
2020-08-07, 09:56 AM
As said, "splatbook" comes from the late 80s, early 90s, though I heard the term with a couple of games.

It comes from "Clanbook: whatever" or "The Complete Book of Whatever" etc., where companies would have a series of books that dove into a particular subset of things.

The reason it became a "splatbook" is that hte asterisk is used in programming to denote "match anything", and is often called a splat.

Willie the Duck
2020-08-07, 11:19 AM
The reason it became a "splatbook" is that hte asterisk is used in programming to denote "match anything", and is often called a splat.

I don't necessarily know that programming has anything to do with it. I think that the (for example) White Wolf Clanbooks and AD&D 2e 'The Complete ____" books were simply listed below the 'core' books in FLGS supplier's books with an asterisk/splat.

kyoryu
2020-08-07, 04:48 PM
I don't necessarily know that programming has anything to do with it. I think that the (for example) White Wolf Clanbooks and AD&D 2e 'The Complete ____" books were simply listed below the 'core' books in FLGS supplier's books with an asterisk/splat.

"Splat" as a term for asterisk comes from programming.

Willie the Duck
2020-08-07, 05:41 PM
"Splat" as a term for asterisk comes from programming.

Oh is that all you mean. I thought there was some match anything search involving the splatbooks or the like. Yes, so far as people can determine, * = splat comes from programmers. Every once in a while someone posits that typesetters might have used the terms as well (sure seems intuitive, given the appearance), but no one every seems to provide a source.