What races associate with the Duergar?

[lord eldritch]

Hello.

I'm thinking of running a 5e dungeon with the Duergar as the prime villains.

But I'm facing an interesting, uphill challenge. I learned to play D&D using 1e, many years ago. Now that I'm retired I'm returning to the D&D fold, but the game has changed a lot in the intervening years. The Duergar are the ideal fit for the game I've got in mind, but I need to do more than just learn their stats. I need to discover more about their psychology, alliances, how they fight, what their priorities are, etc.

That's because the players I'll be DMing are much younger than me and very well acquainted with all things 5e. They'll instantly spot something that doesn't fit with what they know and understand about the Duergar. This is something I'd prefer to avoid.

Therefore, an early step in my learning process requires me to populate the dungeon with creatures that freely associate with and work with the Duergar. That's where help would be welcomed.

Thank you.

Lord Eldritch.

[Yora]

I don't think they really cooperate with anyone. They are dwarves without any of the good qualities.
They will trade with drow and probably wouldn't have any issue selling to deep gnomes either if they can pay.

But I guess that would already be where it ends. They would of course be hostile to other dwarves. I don't see them even bothering to attempt to talk with goblins or kuo-toa, and they are committed enemies of the mind flayers. I could possibly imagine them coming to some kinds of understanding with aboleths, though I don't recall any precedent for that. And you just don't have normal relationships with beholders.

I imagine duergars not wanting to have anything to do with anyone else. They just want to be left alone, but will of course fiercely fight for any territory they lay claim to and have no mercy for unwanted intruders.

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't think they really cooperate with anyone. They are dwarves without any of the good qualities.
They will trade with drow and probably wouldn't have any issue selling to deep gnomes either if they can pay.

But I guess that would already be where it ends. They would of course be hostile to other dwarves. I don't see them even bothering to attempt to talk with goblins or kuo-toa, and they are committed enemies of the mind flayers. I could possibly imagine them coming to some kinds of understanding with aboleths, though I don't recall any precedent for that. And you just don't have normal relationships with beholders.

I imagine duergars not wanting to have anything to do with anyone else. They just want to be left alone, but will of course fiercely fight for any territory they lay claim to and have no mercy for unwanted intruders. +1 for this answer.

[Tanarii]

Mordenkainen's Tome of foes explicitly calls out they use Steeders as mounts. They also keep slaves. It has the following on the table for special allies as part of a Duergar Raiding Party:

ld4 steeders, female
ld6 bearded devils bound to service
2d4 allied evil azers
3d20 enslaved goblins
ld4 summoned earth elementals
ld6 + 2 gargoyles
ld8 hell hounds
l trained rust monster
1 shield guardian bound to group leader
ld4 enslaved trolls

[LibraryOgre]

In Icewind Dale 2, the duergar had a number of orc slaves. FR Wiki (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Duergar#Relations_with_Other_Races)says that they sometimes have trade relations with svirfneblin and drow, but generally hate everyone.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

4 words: Out of the Abyss. The chapter on Graklestaugh (which I'm sure I've just mis-spelled) is the best and longest chapter in the mod. There are additional Duergar variants in the back. And, yes there are other races, but I won't put in spoilers here. My players had an amazing time and spent more time here than anywhere else in the underdark.

[Composer99]

Going to echo the recommendation to check out the duergar chapter in Out of the Abyss.

If you are running the duergar in your own setting, rather than a TSR or WoTC published setting, you could easily change some of their attitudes and habits to work well with other creatures, if you wished. I wouldn't change them up too much if you are intending for them to be campaign antagonists, though.

[lord eldritch]

Thanks for the helpful replies everyone. :smallsmile:

On the back of your recommendations I've found these.

Sean McGovern's 'Guide to Out of the Abyss'

A .pdf version of 'Out of the Abyss'

(Can't post the links yet. Will be able to once my post count tops the 10 mark.)

To answer Composer99...

Yes, I'll be running the Duergar in a setting of my own making. They won't be the major antagonists though. There's something else MUCH BIGGER going on that the party won't initially be aware of. That threat will creep up on them by slow degrees. :smallwink:

The Duergar are there to add depth and colour to the whole thing.

Provided that they are greedy for riches, highly aggressive, wantonly destructive and xenophobic towards both the surface-dwelling races and their gods, then they should work well enough in the dungeon I have in mind.

Thanks again.

Lord Eldritch.

[Mandrake]

I support the answers above by what is given in the books --- the Duergar really do some like a keep-to-themselves lot. However, I find this unhelpful to OP, so I will try to give it a go.

I am not sure what the scale for your campaign is, but consider introducing another thing (a creature or an event) that sets the things to motion. This larger event or being will shape the circumstances that force the Duergar to enslave, employ, or cooperate with unlikely allies. For example, imagine Torog finally finding a way to get out of the Underdark. He is now presenting himself to the Duergar and asking them to champion his way to the surface world. Now, Duergar's allies are all sorts of creatures you could see working for Torog.

Another example can be that some lay lines pop up in the Underdark and some Duergar leaders (military or religious) find themselves in the Feywild or on the top of some mountain chain somewhere or in the Shadowfell or what not. They decide that they can use these passages for no good, but there are creatures on the other side, too. Luckily, these guys are also evil and opportunistic. Under a new charismatic leader, a large group of Duergar strike a deal with evil Fey or Storm Giants or a Dark Lord in Shadowfell. Each begin prodding at places the PCs may care about and only after a while do they find out these are connected.

It is also entirely possible for a Duergar Warlock to make a deal with ~something. A vestige of an old god, or even Tharizdun himself. Maybe the Illithid are controlling the minds of top Duergar and top Drow and now orders from above changed and they suddenly work together. Maybe it's a deal with a devil like Levistus.

Basically what I am saying is that by the book there doesn't seem to be much, but introducing one openly cataclysmic or hidden and sinister factor can make for an interesting campaign as the PCs are trying to figure out what is going on, while giving you a lot of versatility in what you throw at them.

I hope this helps a bit and I hope you have fun with your game!

[micahaphone]

I'll echo others, I'm running Out of the Abyss and while isolationist, they sell to deep gnomes and drow. Hell, even kuo-toa, if they kuo-toa remember what money f&^$ is.


I thought of them as bitter capitalistic dwarves, dwarves without a moment of joy, humor, creativity, or respite. They have no art or creativity to their work - no ornate axes or beautiful helms, but what they sell is very well made. They may hate all other races, but the other races have money and will trade with them. If you have money, they will sell things to you. But they're also very untrusting, so you'll have scary guards watching your every move while you shop.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I'll echo others, I'm running Out of the Abyss and while isolationist, they sell to deep gnomes and drow. Hell, even kuo-toa, if they kuo-toa remember what money f&^$ is.


I thought of them as bitter capitalistic dwarves, dwarves without a moment of joy, humor, creativity, or respite. They have no art or creativity to their work - no ornate axes or beautiful helms, but what they sell is very well made. They may hate all other races, but the other races have money and will trade with them. If you have money, they will sell things to you. But they're also very untrusting, so you'll have scary guards watching your every move while you shop.

My players had the good fortune (and skill) of saving a group of Duergar from attack in the Darklake while playing OotA. The dwarves were trading in metal goods, so by the time they got to the Duergar city they had a useful group that owed them. After some more intelligent play they left the city they were finally properly equipped.

[Nagog]

Associate? Likely any race native to the Underdark, notable exception being Illithids. Like? Almost nobody. Specific exceptions likely exist, but Duergar are known to hate other races, so when interracial contact can be avoided, they'd likely do so.

That said, this is your game. If you decide that in your universe/interpretation of this universe, the Duergar are allied with, say, certain evil Dragons, Drow, and some Deep Gnomes, then it's true. One of the things 5e has gone to great lengths to instill is the idea that 5e, for the most part, is a framework system in which you can do whatever you want. There is RAW, but the PHB and DMG make sure you know that it's perfectly OK and even encouraged to break that if the DM so desires.

For example, if you wanted to play Call of Cthulu in 5e, you can. Reflavor a few things, run the game with a few homebrew rules, and boom you have Call of Cthulu in 5e. If you want to have a world where High Elves are super evil and Drow are hermits deep under the mountains who spend there time smoking mushrooms and spouting philosophy, you can. It's entirely up to you.

[iTreeby]

I seem to remember duergar worship a God of Toil and view labor as a form of worship, they are the type of beings that hear about the eternal punishment os Sisyphus and think it's a good afterlife. Where dwarves value work ethic and the crafts it produces, to duergar any products produced are incidental to the process of toiling. A duergar who valued artistic quality could be seen as a deviant.

I think this was stuff I read in 3.5 books so who knows how accurate it is or was but, that's how I think of them.