LM-less Dread Necromancer [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2020-07-12, 01:34 AM

It honestly depends on how your DM rules its 20th level ability. Does it actually give you the full Lich template from the MM, without the LA, like Dragon Disciple and similar do? If so, and if you're reasonably expecting to reach 20th level and continue playing beyond that for a significant amount of time, then stay single-classed. Otherwise you may as well prestige out or even gradually gain Lich (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a) and buy it off (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) gradually as well, since levels of template classes are treated as level adjustment (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a).

Let's say you do that, gradually gain and gradually buy off the Lich template. You need to be 11th level and to have created a phylactery before you start gaining it. So Dread Necromancer 11, spend your 12th level of Lich 1, your number of class levels is over 3x your +1 LA, so you can immediately spend 11k xp (current ECL -1, x 1000) and have one level of the template class with no level adjustment. Your next level is Lich 2, your number of class levels is still over 3x your +2 LA, so you send another 11k xp to buy that one off. Same for the third one. You gain the fourth one and one more level of Dread Necromancer (or prestige class that advances it), putting your number of class levels at 3x your +4 LA, and buy off that one for 12k xp. A 16th level character has at least 120,000 xp, you're beginning play with 45k fewer, barely under 13th level. You've got twelve levels of Dread Necromancer + PrCs, and an already bought off +4 LA from Lich. You'll gain significantly more xp per encounter until you've caught up due to the mechanics of xp rewards in 3.5 edition. You can even do some shenanigans like using a Thought Bottle (CA) to make that only cost you 500 xp for each point of LA you bought off, so you'll be down only 2,000 xp from everyone else's starting total. That's not even as much as a Wizard would have spent on Permanencied spells. Regardless you've still gained as much xp as the rest of the party despite possibly starting at a lower level, and would have accumulated the same gear/wealth as everyone else at the start of play.

What prestige classes you gain may depends largely on two things: How many levels of DN do you actually want to take? How many levels of spellcasting are you willing to lose? The 8th level of Dread Necromancer changes your Animate Dead calculation from 4 x Caster Level to 4+Cha Mod x Class Level. At 16th level you can control 64 HD worth of undead without DN 8. With DN 8 it's stuck as 8 x 4+Cha mod, so you'll need a Cha mod of at least +4 to break even, higher to make it worthwhile. Use Forestlord Elf in Dragon Magic for your race, and ideally apply the Magic-Blooded (aka Spark) template for -2 Wis, +2 Cha and some other minor benefits, plus Lich gives +2 Cha. You can say you reached venerable age after becoming undead for +3 to your mental stats for now drawbacks since undead are immune to penalties to their physical ability scores. Plus you'll have at least three points from levels, so you're looking at a +10 bonus to Cha on top of a +6 enhancement bonus and likely starting stat of 18, for 34 Cha total which is a +12 bonus. So a DN 8 with that can control 128 HD of undead from Animate Dead, I'd say that's worth it, but keep in mind you may not have many undead that can contribute at this level.

Your familiar should be a Ghostly Visage in FF. It should always be possessing your character, even though the mind affecting immunity is redundant with being undead. During combat it manifests over your face to use its paralyzing gaze on anyone that looks at you. On its turn it can use a standard action to focus the gaze attack on a creature (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#gazeAttacks) to force it to save against the effect again, even if it's not looking or already saved that round. Even if you don't get DN 8, absolutely get DN 7 as this is one of the best familiars available in the game, and you can only gain it as a DN.

Prestige class choices really depend on what your primary shtick will be. Paragnostic Apostle has lite requirements and doesn't lose any caster levels, but you only want as many levels as the number of abilities you want from it, it's basically filler. You can use Arcane Disciple to get access to specific spells for prestige classes like Mindbender for a single level dip, or Thaumaturgist. The Lust domain can actually qualify you for both of those, if you're into that. It's generally recommended to get Arcane Disciple for the Evil domain for Desecrate, but a Ring of Greater Desecration (https://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x) is probably better unless you plan on using Fell Energy Spell in Dragon Compendium. On that note, say you became a Lich in the area of a Fell Energy Desecrate with an evil altar present to permanently gain +6 hp/level (the normal +1 increases to +3 for Fell Energy Spell, and the evil altar doubles it to +6). Other choice classes may include Nightmare Spinner and/or Dread Witch, but both of those lose a caster level right at the start. Lord of the Dead at that Ring of Desecration link may also be worthwhile, get Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole in CS to qualify. Another amazing dip is Seeker of the Misty Isle, since spontaneous casters who gain domains aren't limited to casting each domain spell only once per day, use a Ruathar dip to get Survival as a class skill.

I'd probably go Dread Necromancer 8/ Ruathar 1/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 1/ Mindbender 1/ (gradually gain and buy off Lich 4)/ Lord of the Dead 5, in that order. If starting at a level lower than 16 due to the xp costs of buying off the LA, start with fewer Lord of the Dead levels as it can only be gained after Lich 4. Use Arcane Disciple for the Temptation domain in FC1 or the Lust domain in SC to qualify for Mindbender and gain access to a number of nice spells. Without LM you can't get Fell Drain or Fell Frighten or similar, nor can you get a Slaymate to make your metamagic easier on necromancy spells, or even the Corpsecrafter line of feats. Consider also taking Arcane Disciple for the Deathbound domain if you can find something that fits (a theme, rather than a deity), which gets you Awaken Undead. However, it's going to take effort to find worthwhile undead minions at this level, so that may not even be worth taking, especially without Corpsecrafter and the feats that require it.

There's the good ol' Arcane Thesis: Enervation gimmick. Use that with Sanctum Spell so a Lesser Rod of Maximize can be used on it, plus Split Ray and Twin Spell and Ocular Spell, plus Practical Metamagic on one or more of those. Load one of those spells into each of your eyes and it lasts up to eight hours. During that time you can spend a full-round action to release both spells, firing four rays that can target the same creature or be split between multiple targets, each ray inflicts eight negative levels.

In any case consider getting the Raiment of the Four set in MIC to have a bit more versatility in your spellcasting. UMD with a custom Runestaff (MIC p224) can seriously mitigate the limited spell selection on your DN spell list.

PoeticallyPsyco

2020-07-12, 03:19 AM

I'm a big fan of Dread Necromancer into Dread Witch for fear debuffing. The typical build would be either Dread Necromancer 8/ Dread Witch 4/ Dread Necromancer X (for one more Advanced Learning at DN 16) or Dread Necromancer 7/ Dread Witch 5/ Dread Necro X (for a higher spell level on your 8th level Advanced Learning).

The main advantage is that your fear spells bypass fear immunity, making you viable even against constructs and undead. That could be a problem for your minions, which is why your first Advanced Learning should be Kelgore's grave mist for a small amount of no-save damage that only affects living creatures, meaning Fell Frighten turns it into an AOE no-save shaken on the first turn, frightened on the second turn, and cowering on the third turn (because they're surrounded by the mist - a threat - while panicking they can't retreat and thus immediately drop their weapons and stand their cowering). It only takes a relatively small amount of cold resistance to make your living party members immune - the downside here is that it also only takes a little cold resistance to make your enemies immune, but that's why you've got more than just the one spell. Since it's only a second level spell, you can also add other metamagic riders to it pretty easily; Invisible Spell is a pretty fun one, here.

You probably want to back that up with more fear effects, especially since they stack unless stated otherwise. Dreadful Wrath as your 1st level feat gives you a 20ft fear aura every time you cast a spell that hits an enemy (or charge or full attack), either making them shaken or escalating their fear by one level if they were already shaken/frightened. There're a bunch of other options and alternatives, but rather than list them all here, I'll just link to the Fear Handbook (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?389244-Caedrus-Art-of-War-vol-1-Fear-Handbook).

If you miss the unlimited healing of being an undead DN, the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat lets you heal from negative energy like an undead, which means infinite out of combat healing for you thanks to Charnel Touch.