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Thurbane
2020-07-13, 04:38 PM
I thought this might go outside of the scope of the Simple RAW thread, but I have questions about using the Teeth of Dahlver-Nar (ToM p.77); specifically about the Influence of the associated Vestige.


When the tooth is in your mouth, you show the sign of the associated vestige, just as you would if you had actually bound it. In addition, you are automatically under its influence, as though you were a binder who had failed a binding check. If you choose to ignore the vestige’s influence, you take the normal penalty for doing so. The penalty lasts until the tooth is removed, but you can still use its power. As normal, the penalties of ignoring the influences of multiple vestiges stack.

If you are conscious and free-willed, and you encounter a situation in which you cannot or will not refrain from a prohibited action or perform a required one, you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, and checks until that vestige leaves you.

Is my reading correct that if you go against the Influence of the Vestige associated with the Tooth or Teeth you have in your mouth, you get a cumulative penalty that never goes away until you rip the tooth out of your mouth and re-insert it - which entails a new 24 hour attunement process, and the loss of a new (natural) tooth each time until you get them Regenerated?

If all of this is correct, then the much vaunted Tooth of Savnok is not all its cracked up to be, at least in my opinion (especially once you factor in that without additional magics etc., you cannot sleep in heavy armor)...

Cheers - T

RSGA
2020-07-13, 06:44 PM
Well, a Tooth of Savonok is 2000 GP, so the soonest you can afford that on WBL is 4th, where you hopefully have a masterwork medium or heavy armor. The Restful Crystal is 500 GP, isn't given a rank so it's a least crystal, and can go on your armor as soon as it's masterwork, so that's a minimum of 2600 GP dedicated to being able to move and sleep in medium or heavy armor without penalty. Most of your 4th level GP, but less at 5th.

If you don't have MIC, may I suggest getting immunity to Fatigue so you can maximize how long you can stay awake for?

Doctor Despair
2020-07-13, 07:33 PM
If you don't have MIC, may I suggest getting immunity to Fatigue so you can maximize how long you can stay awake for?

For a few sources off the top of my head, there's Sandals of the Vagabond, Armor of the Unending Hunt, and a one-level dip into Horizon Walker, if I remember correctly, along with racial abilities and whatnot.

Thurbane
2020-07-13, 07:48 PM
OK, steering away from Tooth of Savnok specifically for a moment (since there is definitely ways around the resulting armor related issues), is my general assumption of the penalties the Teeth of Dahlver-Nar impose accurate?

Temotei
2020-07-13, 08:20 PM
I think you're right. Rough living for those willing to rip teeth out for magic ones.

Maat Mons
2020-07-13, 08:38 PM
It says the penalties from multiple vestiges stack. It doesn't say the penalty from a single vestige stacks with itself.

Edit: Retracted.

Temotei
2020-07-13, 08:40 PM
It says the penalties from multiple vestiges stack. It doesn't say the penalty from a single vestige stacks with itself.

Text directly from the book:
If you fail to fulfill the requirements of more than one vestige or disobey a single vestige more than once, the penalties stack.

Emphasis mine.

RSGA
2020-07-13, 09:18 PM
OK, steering away from Tooth of Savnok specifically for a moment (since there is definitely ways around the resulting armor related issues), is my general assumption of the penalties the Teeth of Dahlver-Nar impose accurate?

Potentially. It depends on if the whole soul binding part is considered to be a continuing power of the Teeth or not. If it is, and then it would be the root one so to speak, then you can deactivate the thing to avoid getting the penalty (similarly you can suppress the Tooth). If it's not then you have to Dispel Magic the item or hope that the GM is going to let the Chime of Suppression work on the Tooth you have. I'd also say that you should probably be allowed to put a tooth back in the same spot, it seems both on theme and just tricksy enough for such a Binder related item.