4 Elements Monk - Revamped

[HPisBS]

Most people understand the shortcomings of the Way of the 4 Elements Monk. As one commenter put it (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?611924-4-elements-Monk/page11&p=24530934#post24530934), it feels "limited, underpowered, overpriced, and disconnected from its theme." I'd say the fact that it doesn't have any useful resource-free things to do is the biggest problem, but I think I've done a decent job at remedying the others, too.


The basic idea is to keep the core of the subclass intact, but add on some relatively minor buffs based on which kinds of disciplines you know. You can learn a discipline for each element and gain a bunch of cool and useful things to do for free, or you can specialize in one particular element until you truly master it.

With this fix, the first two disciplines of each element grant unique features:

Air 1) If you know at least one discipline that is specifically related to air, you gain the following additional benefits:

You know the Gust cantrip.
When you use Step of the Wind to Dash, you can do so at double speed. Dashing never cause you exhaustion.

Air 2) If you know at least two disciplines that are specifically related to air, you gain the following additional benefits:

The distance and height you can jump increases by an amount equal to your speed increase from Unarmored Movement, and the distance you can fall without taking damage increases by the same amount. Additionally, when you use your Slow Fall reaction, you may apply its damage reduction to another creature you're holding onto.
As a bonus action, you can use ki to wrap strong, rapidly oscillating winds around all daggers and darts you wield for 1 minute. When you do so, they act as magical monk weapons with a bonus to attack and damage rolls of +1 per 2 ki points spent whenever you attack with them. You may also activate this ability as part of your Deflect Missiles reaction, and it applies to any such missiles you throw.



Water 1) If you know at least one discipline that is specifically related to water, you gain the following additional benefits:

You know the Shape Water cantrip.
When you Disengage, you can shape nearby water into fog which heavily obscures your space until the start of your next turn. You may then choose to return it to its previous location.

Water 2) If you know at least two disciplines that are specifically related to water, you gain the following additional benefits:

When you Disengage, you can use nearby water to create an area of icy, difficult terrain along any 15 ft you travel after Disengaging. Other creatures must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw upon entering this area or else fall prone. This effect ends at the start of your next turn, at which time, you may choose to return the water to its previous location.
You can make nearby water form a tendril that wraps around your free hand, which you can use to make magical unarmed attacks with a range of 10 ft.



Earth 1) If you know at least one discipline that is specifically related to earth, you gain the following additional benefits:

You know the Mold Earth cantrip.
As an unarmed attack, you can stomp on earthen or stony ground, causing it to reach up and grab a creature standing on the same surface within 15' feet of you. The creature must make a Dexterity save or be grappled until the start of your next turn. The effect ends early if the creature succeeds on a Strength (Athletics) check against your ki save DC. A Huge or larger creature has advantage on both the save and Athletics check.

Earth 2) If you know at least two disciplines that are specifically related to earth, you gain the following additional benefits:

Pebbles become magical ranged monk weapons for you with a range of 30/90 ft. You may throw a pebble within 5 ft of you without touching it.
When you Dodge, you can spend ki to cover parts of your body with nearby rocks, increasing your AC by 1 per 2 ki points spent for 1 minute.



Fire 1) If you know at least one discipline that is specifically related to fire, you gain the following additional benefits:

You know the Control Flames cantrip.
As a bonus action, you can breathe fire and cause flames to brightly flare up from your hands or weapon(s). When you do so, one creature of your choice within your melee range must succeed on a Wisdom save or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn. A creature has advantage on this save if you use it again without dealing fire damage to it. Any creature with resistance or immunity to fire damage is immune to this effect.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier. You regain all uses when you finish a long rest.

Fire 2) If you know at least two disciplines that are specifically related to fire, you gain the following additional benefits:
You know the Produce Flame cantrip.
As a reaction when you take fire or lightning damage, you may roll your martial arts die to reduce that damage by the number you roll + your Wisdom modifier. When you do so, you may redirect that same damage at a different creature within 5 ft of you by making a melee spell attack. Alternatively, you may spend 1 ki point to redirect the damage using a ranged spell attack with a range of 15/30 ft. Wisdom is your attack modifier for this feature.



F1)
- Control Flames cantrip
- Reaction to taking fire or lightning damage to reduce that damage by your Wis mod, to a minimum of 1/2 the damage you would've taken.

F2)
- Produce Flame cantrip
- Reaction when using Evasion to reduce fire or lightning damage: spend 2 ki pts to make 1 target within 30 ft make a Dex save against your ki save DC. If it fails, it takes 1/2 of the damage you Evaded.


Further specialization into a single element functions the same way for each element.


Once per turn, if you know 3 disciplines related to the same element, you may add 1d6 to one associated damage roll.
If you know 4 disciplines related to the same element, then choose one of those disciplines; you now use that discipline as a bonus action instead of an action. You may change this choice whenever you finish a long rest.
If you know 5 disciplines related to the same element, you may spend 6 ki points to cast the associated Investiture spell.

- If you know a discipline that has an ambiguous relation to two or more of these elements, then you decide which one to count it as.


Lastly, there obviously aren't enough RAW disciplines to specialize in each element, so here's a list to fill in the holes. Plus enhancements to a couple of the old ones.

Air:
Aegis of the Whirlwind - 2 ki pts to cast Warding Wind
Waves of Rising Air (6th Level Required) - 3 ki pts to cast Wind Wall
Leap of Rushing Winds (11th Level Required) - 4 ki pts to cast Thunder Step

Water:
Freezing Wake - 2 ki pts to create an area of icy difficult terrain, as per the Grease spell.
Talon of the Snowy Owl - 2 ki pts to cast Ice Knife
Thirst of the Whales - 2 ki pts to cast Create or Destroy Water
Wave of Rising Waters (6th Level Required) - 3 ki pts to cast Water Wall
Wrath of the Raging Tide (11th Level Required) - 4 ki pts to cast Tidal Wave
Grasp of the Merciless Seas (17th Level Required) - 5 ki pts to cast Watery Sphere

Earth:
Step of Roiling Ground - 2 ki pts to cast Earth Tremor
Swift Stone Guard - 2 ki pts to cast Shield
Arm of the Hills (6th Level Required) - 3 ki pts to cast Maximillian’s Earthen Grasp
Quills of the Earth (6th Level Required) - 3 ki pts to cast Spike Growth
Bursting Mountain (11th Level Required) - 4 ki pts to cast Erupting Earth
Stone as Clay (11th Level Required) - 4 ki pts to cast Stone Shape

Fire:
Fangs of the Fire Snake - Enhancement -- Same as RAW, +

Alternatively, you may activate this discipline without spending any ki points as a bonus action. When you use it in this way, the discipline ends at the end of your turn, unless you use your concentration to maintain it as if concentrating on a spell.
Vengeance of the Fire Ant - 2 ki pts to cast Hellish Rebuke
Flame Darts (6th Level Required) - 3 ki pts to cast Scorching Ray
Sneeze of the Dragon (6th Level Required) - 3 ki pts to cast Pyrotechnics

Also, for Elemental Attunement:

Elemental Attunement - Enhancement -- Same as Raw, +

You may choose not to learn this discipline. However, if you do know it, then you may treat it the same as knowing 1 discipline related to any element you choose. Also, you may replace that choice with a different element whenever you finish a long rest.
At level 6: You may treat this discipline the same as knowing a discipline related to any two different elements of your choice. You may replace one of these elements whenever you finish a long rest.
At level 11: You may treat this discipline the same as knowing a discipline related to any three different elements of your choice. You may replace one of these elements whenever you finish a long rest.
At level 17: This discipline counts as knowing one discipline of all four elements.



So, is this version of the Ele-Monk something you'd enjoy playing? How's the balance? Is it cool / fun / useful without being overpowered? Especially the ki-free abilities?

Is it just too much, regardless of technical balance?

[Kane0]

Question: does the stock elemental attunement count as having a discipline related to any of the elements it interacts with?

[HPisBS]

Question: does the stock elemental attunement count as having a discipline related to any of the elements it interacts with?

A "discipline that is specifically related to" ___.

How would you say it? Or does it need to spell out that Elemental Attunement is excluded?

(Although, really, it'd be fine to rule that it can count as any element. That'd hardly break anything, considering how weak it is on its own.)

[Kane0]

I agree it would be fine, because the elemental cantrips are slightly expanded versions of the same thing, but I was asking because to get full mastery of 5 in one element you'd need to either count this discipline or trade it away.

Edit: I assume your new disciplines have level reqs that aren't being mentioned as yet?

[Composer99]

I like it. I might suggest granting one additional discipline when you pick up the tradition at 3rd level.

If you think that can put people too far down the specialisation road, perhaps in that case Elemental Attunement either won't count as a discipline of any particular element, or it only counts if you only have one other discipline of that element?

[HPisBS]

I agree it would be fine, because the elemental cantrips are slightly expanded versions of the same thing, but I was asking because to get full mastery of 5 in one element you'd need to either count this discipline or trade it away.

I'd certainly expect people to want to trade in Elemental Attunement the first chance they get - with or without any modifications to the subclass. I wrote a slight buff to it, but still.


Edit: I assume your new disciplines have level reqs that aren't being mentioned as yet?

RAW has a table on the Maximum Ki Points for Spells which does that. But I can add it in anyway.


I like it. I might suggest granting one additional discipline when you pick up the tradition at 3rd level.

If you think that can put people too far down the specialisation road, perhaps in that case Elemental Attunement either won't count as a discipline of any particular element, or it only counts if you only have one other discipline of that element?

I'd lean more towards just allowing players to trade any 1 discipline for any other discipline upon leveling up. That way, they could trade the relatively useless Elemental Attunement in for something better, and get their second set of element-based perks at the same time.

[Kane0]

I'd certainly expect people to want to trade in Elemental Attunement the first chance they get - with or without any modifications to the subclass. I wrote a slight buff to it, but still.

Righto, so if I may make some suggestions:

- Elemental Attunement counts towards each element
- The single discipline bonus is just the corresponding cantrip

- Two Air Disciplines is the dash and fall
- Two Earth Disciplines is the stomp and dodge
- Two Fire Disciplines is the fear and reaction
- Two Water Disciplines is the Disengage and Tendril

- Three Air Discs is the flying knives and extra d6
- Three Earth Discs is the pebbles and extra d6
- Three Fire Discs is, wait you have two cantrips here? Might need to make another ability to slot in alongside the extra d6
- Three Water Discs is the slick ice and extra d6

- Four of any one elemental is the BA discipline and Investiture


So this means you don't need to swap out a Disc to get the full mastery, you can feasibly get 2 of each element for 50% mastery and no matter what your selection you always have at least some ribbons for flavor.

[Yakk]

An attempt at cleanup.


Air 1:
* You know the Gust cantrip
* You can dash as a bonus action, so long as you haven't dashes this turn.
* If you spend ki in an action, you can dash as part of that action so long as you haven't dashed this turn.
* Dashing does not cause you exaustion.

Air 2:
* You never take damage from falling
* As a reaction you can cast Feather Fall for the price of 1 Ki per target.
* When you make a thrown weapon attack, you can spend up to 3 Ki to make the thrown weapon magical and grant it a +1 bonus to attack and damage per Ki spent. You can decide to spend this Ki after you roll to hit and determine that you would have missed.

Here I used spells when appropriate. I also took the "double slow fall" and said "screw it, feather fall is a level 1 ability".

The thrown weapon was really complex. How about a per-throw cost?

Dashing is split into "as a bonus action" without Ki, or as part of any move that uses Ki; aka, basically always. You can double dash, but only if you can do it *after* you use this feature.

Water 1:
* You know the Shape Water cantrip
* When you take the disengage action, you can shape nearby water or mosture into mist. This creates a mist within your square that heavily obscures it.

Water 2:
* When you move, you can spend 1 Ki to make a 5' diameter area you travel through icy until the end of your next turn. This area is difficult terrain, and when a creature other than you enters such an area or starts their turn there for the first time on a turn they must make a Dexterity saving throw or fall prone.
* You can make nearby water or mosture form a tendril around a free hand and attack with it. This extends the reach of your unarmed attacks to 10 ft.


I moved icy terrain to water 2, and made it general and cost Ki. It was a bit fiddly before.

I also had a general "nearby moisture or water"; which means that only if you are in a desert and have no water are you crippled. The bit about having a flask was good fluff, but I don't think it needs so many words.

Earth 1:
* You know the Mold Earth cantrip
* As an unarmed attack you can stomp the ground and cause the ground to reach up and grab a creature within 15' feet standing on the same surface until the end of your next turn. They must make a Dexterity save or be grappled (escape DC your Ki ability save DC). A creature that is Huge or larger has advantage on both the save and escape chance.

Earth 2:
* Pebbles are magical ranged monk weapons for you with a 30 ft short and 90 ft long range. You can throw a pebble within 5' of you without touching it.
* ...
The unarmed wording I think is improved. I referenced grapple rules, and permitted an acrobatics-escape (seems strange to not, I get why, but still).

I simplified pebble wording.

[HPisBS]

Righto, so if I may make some suggestions:

- Elemental Attunement counts towards each element
- The single discipline bonus is just the corresponding cantrip
...
- Four of any one elemental is the BA discipline and Investiture

I kinda like the idea of letting Elemental Attunement count as all elements; we could let that be its real purpose, rather than the parlor tricks of RAW.

However, there's some issues with the way it's written there. The first is that it completely negates most of the RAW effects. But the bigger issue is that it'd throw off the balance quite a bit. If a Monk chose two real disciplines instead of EA, all they'd get is a couple of fluffy cantrips. But when they specialize, they'd get a whole bunch useful stuff all at once because the bulk of the features are piled into lvl 2 and 3. Also, Investiture should be the reward for full specialization, meaning a full 5 disciplines of 1 element. It'd take a lot to sway me away from that.

That said, I think there's a way to make the idea work. Let's try counting it as additional elements as you level up. 1 element at lvl 3, 2 at 6, 3 at 11, and all 4 at 17. That should make EleMonks with and without EA roughly equal, I think.



An attempt at cleanup.

Air
...
Dashing is split into "as a bonus action" without Kli, or as part of any move that uses Ki; aka, basically always. You can double dash, but only if you can do it *after* you use this feature.

"Basically always" seems like too large of a boost, especially for the first discipline. I want to be very cautious when brewing improvements, since it's so easy to overstep into OP territory -- and there's no shortage of people who'd be very eager to recognize it as such.


Air 2:
...
Here I used spells when appropriate. I also took the "double slow fall" and said "screw it, feather fall is a level 1 ability".

Sure, but Slow Fall is lvl 4. Which also means this could come online 1 level before Slow Fall does if written that way.

That said, given 5e's valuing simplicity so highly, it may well be best to just roll the fall negation into Feather Fall and be done with it. But, that may also make it too powerful. ... Idk, I'm on the fence for this one.


The thrown weapon was really complex. How about a per-throw cost?

Then, it's too expensive to focus on throwing, even at that reduced cost. For cleaner language, I'll just do what I should've done from the start: re-appropriate some of Kensei 11's text: "a bonus to attack and damage rolls when you attack with it them."




I moved icy terrain to water 2, and made it general and cost Ki. It was a bit fiddly before.

I also had a general "nearby moisture or water"; which means that only if you are in a desert and have no water are you crippled. The bit about having a flask was good fluff, but I don't think it needs so many words.

Good points all around. I'm not entirely sure how useful just obscuring 1 square is, though. Maybe it needs a little extra, like the ability to spend ki to make a denser bit of human-shaped fog within that area? Then, you could potentially deceive enemies into thinking you're still there....


Earth
...
The unarmed wording I think is improved. I referenced grapple rules, and permitted an acrobatics-escape (seems strange to not, I get why, but still).

I simplified pebble wording.

The reason I didn't allow athletics is because I see it as more analogous to spells like Earthen Grasp than to true grappling. In which case, it should require strength to escape.

I notice you dropped Wis as the pebble's attack mod. I guess you considered non-transferable Magic Stones with martial arts dice to be too strong lol? I kinda do, but I'm on the fence.


Anyway, I've updated the text with your suggestions in mind. Is it better?

(I'm particularly unsure about the slow fall and fog abilities. Elemental Attunement, too, I guess.)

[Darthnazrael]

My rework abandons the Disciplines aspect entirely, and fits it into a format much more in line with the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster, as a 1/3 Caster, with a focus on elemental damage (they CAN access the more subtle elemental spells, but those are for Wizards to focus on) melded synergistically with Martial Arts in order to compensate for the paltry damage offered by Monks in general. I dropped the 'these exact elemental spells only' idea, and made them more like a Dragon Sorcerer -- encouraged to purchase elemental spells, but allowed to pick up Minor Illusion, Shield, etc.



You follow a monastic tradition that teaches you to harness the elements. When you focus your ki, you can align yourself with the forces of creation and bend the four elements to your will, using them as an extension of your body. Some members of this tradition dedicate themselves to a single element, but others weave the elements together.

Many monks of this tradition tattoo their bodies with representations of their ki powers, commonly imagined as coiling dragons, but also as phoenixes, fish, plants, mountains, and cresting waves.


When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn magical disciplines that harness the power of the four elements. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the wizard spell list. To cast one of these spells, you use its casting time and other rules, but you don't need to provide material components for it.

Cantrips. You learn two cantrips of your choice from the wizard spell list. You learn an additional wizard cantrip of your choice at 10th level.

Spell Slots. The Way of the Four Elements Spellcasting table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your wizard spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. For example, if you know the 1st-level spell thunderwave and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast thunderwave using either slot.

Spells Known of 1st-Level and Higher. You know three 1st-level wizard spells of your choice, two of which you must choose from the evocation and transmutation spells on the wizard spell list. The Spells Known column of the Eldritch Knight Spellcasting table shows when you learn more wizard spells of 1st level or higher. Each of these spells must be an evocation or transmutation spell of your choice, and must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 7th level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level. The spells you learn at 8th, 14th, and 20th level can come from any school of magic. Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the wizard spells you know with another spell of your choice from the wizard spell list. The new spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots, and it must be an evocation or transmutation spell, unless you're replacing the spell you gained at 3rd, 8th, 14th, or 20th level from any school of magic.

Spellcasting Ability. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your wizard spells, since you master your spells through discipline and enlightenment. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a wizard spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.


Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier


At 3rd level, you learn to interweave your martial arts with elemental attacks. Whenever you use an action to cast a spell that deals bludgeoning, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder damage, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action, or you can spend 1 ki point to utilize Flurry of Blows as if you had used the Attack action.


Starting at 6th level, the elements you wield become a natural extension of your body. Whenever you use a spell slot of 1st level or higher to cast a spell that deals bludgeoning, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder damage, you may spend 1 ki point to substitute your Martial Arts die in place of the die type used for that spell’s damage.


Starting at 11th level, you can use a bonus action to call on one of the four elements to bear you aloft, resulting in harmless manifestation -- a small tornado around your ankles, a floating mass of earth and rock beneath your feet, two small jets of flame from your back, or a crashing wave on which you float.

While this manifestation persists, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed. This manifestation lasts until you're incapacitated, you die, or you dismiss it as a bonus action.


At 17th level, you gain the ability to become the embodiment of a chosen element. As an action, you can cast Investiture of Flame, Investiture of Ice, Investiture of Stone, or Investiture of Wind, without providing material components. Additionally, when you use the action granted by this spell, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action, or you can spend 1 ki point to utilize Flurry of Blows as if you had used the Attack action. Once you cast a spell with this feature, you can’t do so again until you finish a long rest. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

[HPisBS]

My rework abandons the Disciplines aspect entirely, and fits it into a format much more in line with the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster, as a 1/3 Caster, with a focus on elemental damage ...
-snip-

That particular concept was discussed somewhat at length over here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?611924-4-elements-Monk/page10&p=24530130#post24530046) on the thread I linked in the OP.

They made a fairly compelling case for the typical 1/3 caster with spell slots allowing for even less casting than RAW does. On the other hand, you'd get that 1/3 casting and also get to spend all your ki on standard Monk things, so... 🤷. I'll let you judge their positions for yourself, but Zalabim's comment (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?611924-4-elements-Monk&p=24530675#post24530675) about using the elements to enhance your core Monk features resonated much more for me, and is what gave me the idea for this rework.


About your actual features:
- A+ for Primal Hand Technique. It's pretty much exactly what a Monk who's an actual 1/3 caster would need.

- Awakening the Four comes online too early. There's exceedingly few spells it would apply to while your martial arts die is still a mere d6.

- At-will flight is very powerful. Storm Sorcerer is the only RAW option that springs to mind, and they don't get it until lvl 18. (Edit: There's also Draconic and Divine Soul Sorcs, which both get at-will flight at lvl 14. So still well after lvl 11, but not all that much higher.)

- 1 free Investiture / day is probably roughly equal to my Investiture for 6 ki pts. I'm not a huge fan of 1/day features personally, but I guess it's balanced enough.



Meanwhile, I'm kinda worried that what I've brewed up here is just too busy. An archetype that's sorta like 4 subclasses in 1 that you also mix-and-match according to your (very limited) spell selection is pretty complex for 5e. I think the only thing with comparable built-in complexity might be Warlocks with their patrons + cantrips + spells + boons + invocations....

So yeah. Any comment on whether it really has too much going on or not would be greatly appreciated. (And on how balanced these bonuses are, too, of course.)