Red Magic

[Thayborne]

What were the original powers of the Red Wizard Specialty Prestige Class of Thay of Ed Greenwood's creation?

[Phhase]

Necromancy and Pain, I think?

[Thayborne]

Are you saying that they were specialist only in Necromancy? No other school? What were their actual powers? All of my research on this has netted a sum of zero information. Not even the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting box set 2 ed list their powers.

[D&D_Fan]

Is it linked to the red wizards of thay?

[Edea]

Pretty sure they got massive bonuses to their Save DCs in exchange for intensified school focusing, which is quite busted (and got nerfed into caster level bonuses, instead). They were also involved in crafting/using magic tattoos (to the point they'd shave off all of their hair to make room for them) and engaging in circle magic rituals.

It wasn't just Necromancy; that's probably extrapolated from 1) Szass Tam, and 2) Thay being an extremely evil place. All schools had a zulkir who focused on them above all else, however, so there was a zulkir of Divination, a zulkir of Illusions, etc. etc.

[LibraryOgre]

There have been several versions over the years. Originally, in "Dreams of the Red Wizards", it was pretty much just "Red Wizards have a few different spells that are not usually available, and each school has its own spell list."

[Thayborne]

The book Dreams of the Red Wizards only offers Circle magic of caster level increase. I was expecting something a might more powerful. Also Ed Greenwood is not the author. Is this Ed Greenwoods Version of the Red Wizards of They? "I confess myself ... disappointed". Voldemort.

[johnbragg]

What were the original powers of the Red Wizard Specialty Prestige Class of Thay of Ed Greenwood's creation?

I"m not a big Forgotten Realms guy, but I'm going to suggest a probable explanation. Greenwood wrote the Red Wizards of Thay material under 1st-2nd edition frameworks. BAck then, it was not seen as 100% necessary to stat out exactly what the BBEG could do. High level wizards and clerics were understood to do things outside the spells in the PHB at the DM's discretion.

So basically, the original Red Wizards of Thay could do--whatever the DM felt the plot required. They can definitely do Something Really Bad, if they get The MacGuffin.

The fact that the Red Wizards didn't get much more than Circle Magic in 3rd edition (AFAIK) indicates that their powers weren't especially specified.

EDIT: I went and googled, and THEN reread your post. You already have "Dreams of the Red Wizards", which I'm pretty sure was as defined as they got. It wasn't written by Greenwood, but Greenwood was with TSR at that point, so I'd assume it fit with his ideas.

[Bullet06320]

wizards & rogues of the realms pg57-61
has red wizards being dual specialists

[Lagtime]

What were the original powers of the Red Wizard Specialty Prestige Class of Thay of Ed Greenwood's creation?

Doubtful. Ed created most of the base ideas, but others added in the rules.

Dreams of the Red Wizards, Wizards and Warriors of the Realms, Spellbound, The Forgotten Realms Campaign Book(3E), Lords of Darkness, Magic of Fareun, The Unapproachable East contain the bulk of the 1E to 3.5E Red Wizard crunch rules. Though you will find bits and pieces elsewhere too.

In a general sense, most game designers are quite bad at making "cool and powerful" things. They give a class a +1 to a single spell types DCs and then just fall over thinking that class is an uber all powerful god class. Of course, some of this is for balance too. If someone did get creative, they could make a very powerful class (or whatever) that could kill the Pcs.

In fiction Red Wizards have lots of unique spells and items, though that is true of most spellcasters.

You really need to dip into Homebrew to get a good Red Wizard with things like: Arrogance: Red Wizards learn to throw their weight around quickly once they survive their initiation, even if they only serve as lackeys to their superiors. Thus, Red Wizards may choose to use Intelligence as the base ability for Bluff, Intimidate, and/or Sense Motive

[Edea]

Another homebrew might be that a very high-ranking Red Wizard's able to get the benefits of circle magic from certain designated students/lackeys/etc. without actually engaging in the whole rigamarole of the circle magic ritual.

The Red Wizard's designated 'circle chumps' can get forcibly drained, and from essentially any range (maybe even cross-planar) as a combat-viable action class (maybe a full-rounder). Perhaps still requiring an arcane focus, like a really fancy signet ring or something.

[Thayborne]

Another homebrew might be that a very high-ranking Red Wizard's able to get the benefits of circle magic from certain designated students/lackeys/etc. without actually engaging in the whole rigamarole of the circle magic ritual.

The Red Wizard's designated 'circle chumps' can get forcibly drained, and from essentially any range (maybe even cross-planar) as a combat-viable action class (maybe a full-rounder). Perhaps still requiring an arcane focus, like a really fancy signet ring or something. I do not like this idea. I do like the possibility of using low Int Red Wizards for Circle Magic. They may tend to be loyal and have a less a tendency attempt an act of betrayal. By low Int I mean you have 18 starting and they may be 13 to 14 or so.

[Bullet06320]

From FR Adventures 2nd edition, pg 127

Prior to the Time of Troubles, the Red Wizards wielded greater magical power than they do now. This was due in part to a magical artifact operating within the depths of Amruthar that extended power to those pledged to the Red Wizards (this artifact became just one more pawn in the massive human chess games engaged in by the Zulkirs and Tharchions). During
the magical chaos of the Godswar the device was either deactivated, stolen, or destroyed; in any event, its benefits to the Red Wizards were lost. The Red Wizards in the post-Avatar Realms are treated as normal mages with no special powers (or specialist mages if they belong to a particular school). This sudden reduction in power to mere human levels has badly rattled the rulership of Thay, but has also led them to redouble their devotion to wheeling, dealing, scheming, and plotting.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18318

asking at candlekeep and searching those forums might help you out too

[Thayborne]

Another homebrew might be that a very high-ranking Red Wizard's able to get the benefits of circle magic from certain designated students/lackeys/etc. without actually engaging in the whole rigamarole of the circle magic ritual.

The Red Wizard's designated 'circle chumps' can get forcibly drained, and from essentially any range (maybe even cross-planar) as a combat-viable action class (maybe a full-rounder). Perhaps still requiring an arcane focus, like a really fancy signet ring or something. Your post give me the thought of a possible way to punish a disloyal wizard of your Circle. The use of the Circle to kill or cause a lot of pain to a member who is planning to kill you or is in some way disloyal.