What do you think of Fighter/Warlock?

[gnollgnoll]

I'm planning a Hexblade/Battlemaster frontliner. As an AL character, he'll be able to acquire magic items mentioned here with some effort and I hope he'll advance to lvl 20 some day.
The plan is to take Variant Human 8/14/14/10/10/15 with +1s to Con and Cha and polearm master. Arcana and Investigation will be class skills, racial and background skills will be Athletics, Stealth and Perception.
I don't care much about charisma from the start because I hope to find Gauntlets of ogre power or a Rare item to trade for Belt oh Hill Giant Strength quite early
Hexblade's starting money/equipment is enough to afford scale mail, shield and a staff (arcane focus which also works as a quarterstaff). Not starting as fighter because WIS saves.


Here's the path: Hexblade 2→Battlemaster 6→Hexblade 3→Battlemaster 11→Hexblade 9. Or should I go Hexblade 3 before any Battlemaster options?
Warlock
1: Hexblade with Eldritch Blast
2: Agonizing Blast and Devil's Sight.
3: Pact boon: Blade
4: ASIs to CHA
5: Eldritch Smite
7: A spare invocation (Improved Pact Weapon? Misty Visions? Ghostly Gaze? Beguiling Influence? Mask of Many Faces?)
8: A free ASI. Increase Constitution? Take GWM? Some other feat?
9: Another invocation I can't think of

Fighter
1: Defence fighting style
3: Battlemaster with Precise attack, Riposte and maybe Pushing attack
4,6: ASIs to Sentinel and Resilient (Con)
7: Disarming Strike, Commander's Strike
8: Increase CHA
10: Trip Attack, Goading Attack

What would you suggest to pick on ASI and invocations I've marked?
Staff and shield or glaive? With pact of blade it's fairly easy to use a magical glaive/pike but in T4 character deaths are pretty common and character will need an hour to make a glaive his pact weapon again. Also, there are pretty awesome staves like Staff of Power and Staff of Magi (also, staves of fire, frost and striking)

[Composer99]

Based on your weapon choice, I assume you're taking PAM.

Make sure the party gives you at least 2 short rests a day - encourage the 15-to-20-minute adventuring day, as it were. :smalltongue:

If you go 2 levels of hexblade instead of 3, you're trading off 1 spell known, 2nd-level slots, and your pact boon, for fighting style and second wind, so you definitely have to take 2 levels of fighter right off the bat for the sweet sweet action surge goodness.

The nice thing about hexblade 2/battlemaster 6 is that you end up back on track on your ASIs in the end, being behind for 2 levels versus a single-class character.

Sorry to say, I don't have suggestions on the things you specifically asked for at the bottom of your post.

[Hael]

I don't really understand what you're going for here.

Normally a fighter/bladelock goes fighter first for con saves and b/c they get access to plate (and can thus dump dex). Wis saves are ok but kinda irrelevant b/c a warlocks wis is so low anyway.

Then you normally only dip the bare amount necessary to get access to the features you want. There is a lot of redundancy with hexblade, so you need to have some idea of why you want it in the first place. Do you maybe want access to the famous darkness/ds combo (then its hexblade 3). Do you want 2 slots of eldritch smite (that won't be very good until the spell slots get higher) then you go 5 or higher? Do you want AoA and Shield, then a single lvl suffices.

In fact fighter/warlock is usually the other way around. Its usually high lvls of hexblade (say 17-18) and 2-3 lvls of fighter. There are a few exceptional synergies at 7th (an EK7/Hex13) but normally its not worth it (you are giving up spell slots for very modest martial gains).

Consider that going to 12 in warlock gets you thirster, which roughly equalizes the damage that a 3rd attack gives, so why that split?

[Civis Mundi]

My suggestions (take what you like, leave what you like)


I don't think Warlock 9/Fighter 11 is the way to go. You miss out on Lifedrinker and an ASI. It'd be better to lean a little harder into one class or the other. Warlock 12/Fighter 8 is one great choice--plenty of ASI and Lifedrinker to boot. If you lean further and go Warlock 14/Fighter 6, you lose one ASI and your 7th level Archetype ability, but you gain Master of Hexes and a 7th level Mystic Arcanum. Going the other way, it might be a great idea to go something like Fighter 12/Warlock 8 for Extra Attack and a bunch of Warlock goodies. Fighter 18/Warlock 2 would get you Relentless, d12 Superiority dice, a metric ton of ASI, and most of what you need from Hexblade. You could go Fighter 1 > Hexblade 2 > Fighter+. Your options are endless, but I would recommend almost any split besides W9/F11 (except maybe W10/F10)
I'd consider starting Fighter for the CON saves (and the slightly higher HP, and potentially the heavy armor proficiency). Maintaining concentration on your limited spells is going to be much more important than good WIS saves, especially if you intend to be in melee range. You can always go Resilient (WIS) later, instead of Resilient (CON).
I would recommend shield and staff (or shield and spear), as Hexblades cannot use Hex Warrior on a two-handed weapon. As mentioned, it seems like you're going PAM; I'd make sure to include that in your build.

[Bobthewizard]

There is a case to be made for Hexblade 17/ Battlemaster 3. This still gets you action surge and maneuvers but with much better spellcasting.

Thirsting blade replaces extra attack. Lifedrinker and more and better eldritch smite makes up for the fighter's third attack. If you take pact of the blade, then you can use a two-handed weapon with Charisma. If you take improved pact weapon, you can use a bow with Charisma.

I think you are best taking Warlock to 5 for 3rd level spells and a second attack with Thirsting Blade. Then you take your 3 levels of battlemaster. Then back to Warlock.

Variant human gets you more at early levels. PAM with spear and shield until you get Pact of the Blade. Then either GWM or CHA at level 4. If GWM then change to a glaive.

If you are going to higher levels, then half-elf looks better. Half-elf hexblade is the only way to combine elven accuracy with GWM. Use darkness/devil's sight, shadow of moil, and eventually foresight to get advantage which turns into triple advantage to negate the -5 for GWM and hit with your +10 damage more often. (+1d6 for hex, +prof. for hexblade curse and + charisma again from life drinker.)

The other splits are fine. This is just another option.

[Kemev]

So I hope this won't come across as too critical, but I feel like this would be a difficult character to play in AL.

There's two challenges I see: the first is that starting from level 1 does make multiclassing builds tricky. The character falls behind on ASIs and spells, and it can be hard to contribute to the team. At higher tiers, this isn't a problem -- the build "comes alive" and your build synergies hopefully compensate for those factors (and maybe you're in some kind of 4/4 split where you effectively catch up on ASIs). Again though, you're probably starting from level 1, and Hexblade/Fighter in particular doesn't have much low level synergy (not gonna harp on this, since other posts have mentioned why).

The other big issue is that you're banking really hard on finding a Strength boosting item, and you're not guaranteed to get one. They are items that show up routinely, but they're also popular, and there's a chance another player at the table needs them more. You also can't count on the table assigning items optimally. "We should give the wizard the Belt of Giant Strength so he can carry his spellbooks more easily," is a real thing that happens.

How wedded are you to playing a Hexblade?

For your core concept (Warlock Frontliner), I would start Fighter (for reasons Hael mentions) then go Feylock. Pact of the Fey gets you Faerie Fire, Sleep, and Fey Presence, which is godly at low levels. It's hard to overstate how good Faerie Fire is (especially when you're a melee combatant). It's generally better EV damage than Hexblade's Curse, since you hit more often, get the same number of crits (potentially more, if you can tag multiple targets), and it's a significant pump for team damage. Later on, you can still take Pact of the Blade and load up on melee warlock abilities, plus trade off your intro spells.

The build would look something like this...

Half-Elf
Stats (with racial adjustments in parentheses): Str 15 (16), Dex 10, Con 13 (14), Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 14 (16)
Level Progression
Fighter 1: Choose Defensive fighting style, pick a 1-handed weapon and shield for extra survivability
Warlock 1: Choose Pact of the Fey, spells Faerie Fire, Sleep
Fighter 2: --
Fighter 3: Choose Battle Master, maneuvers Menacing Attack, Trip Attack, Parry/Riposte (your choice)

Menacing Attack and Trip Attack both provide additional control options, which fit well with the front-line role. Trip Attack is especially handy if you pick up a reach weapon later on, since it's a pseudo-Sentinel that doesn't eat an ASI.

At this point you've basically got all the goodies from Fighter, so you're good to lean into Warlock from level 5 onwards.

P.S. I'm generally wary of loading up on feats in AL; the stringent point buy makes the opportunity cost of ASIs much higher. PAM and GWM don't do much if you miss. I recognize that opinions vary on this one though, so YMMV.

[Bobthewizard]

For your core concept (Warlock Frontliner), I would start Fighter (for reasons Hael mentions) then go Feylock.

A couple concerns with this build from an optimization standpoint.

First, you're taking a SAD hexblade/fighter build and making it MAD. You'll need 4 ASIs just to get your attack and spellcasting stats to 20. A half-elf Hexblade, on the other hand, takes elven accuracy and one ASI to get both their attack and spell casting ability to 20. Let the artificer, bard, druid, or light cleric cast faerie fire.

Second, you won't get extra attack until level 8. Levels 5-7 can take a long time and you will be far behind other characters at these levels. It would be painful to play those levels.

Third, starting fighter isn't necessary. I wouldn't do it since it delays your extra attacks and 3rd level spells. STR/CON saves aren't much better, if any, than WIS/CHA saves, and heavy armor with a 15 Str is only one better than medium with a 14 DEX. By only needing a 14 for your AC stat, you can more easily get your CON to 16 to start.

[Kemev]

A couple concerns with this build from an optimization standpoint...

I'd be more likely to agree with you in a different context, but considering the OP wants an AL character, I have a few counterpoints --

If you drop Hexblade, you can also drop XG as you +1 rulebook and use SCAG instead. GFB/Booming blade compensates for the delayed second attack. (This also gives you the option to choose a different invocation instead of Thirsting Attack; the cantrips vs. extra attacks scale at a similar rate.)

There's another advantage to starting Fighter that hasn't been mentioned yet... You get a much better starting equipment package, especially for playing melee brawler. With Fighter, you start chainmail, shield, and AC 19 (plus extra weapons to trade off). With Warlock you're going to be scrambling for equipment; your starting package only gets you hide armor and a shield, so you're starting at AC 16.

I have a strong opinion on the advantages of Fighter saves, but we may have to agree to disagree.

If you know the folks you're playing with, and you're playing with them consistently, then maybe you can count on someone else to bring Faerie Fire. But that might not be the case; you might be playing with different people from week to week. Same logic applies with Elven Accuracy (not that you'd have it with SCAG, but regardless)... it's outstanding if you have a consistent source of advantage, and group team work is the best way to get there. If you can't get advantage from the table, the feat gets a lot worse. (I think in terms of spell- and action-economy, warlock is a better FF/sleep vehicle than other classes, but that's a different argument.)

As far as MAD vs. SAD, Battle Master/warlock tilts towards MAD regardless, since your Fighter save DC depends on either Str or Dex. With the build I outlined, if you happen to find your Gauntlets of Ogre Power/Belt of Giant Strength, great! Advance Cha; you get there in 2 ASIs. If not, advance Str; you get there in 2 ASIs, and at mid-levels swap your save-or-suck spells for non-save options.

...

That said, I'd be curious to see a different warlock/Battle Master progression if you've got one in mind.

[Yakk]

I would expect a BM/Hex to be using a 2 handed weapon using cha and elven accuracy to make GWM -5/+10 trivial, using its BM dice on precision when it doesn't have advantage, and riposte for extra swings.

I'm not sure how you intend to kill things.

[AttilatheYeon]

...

The other big issue is that you're banking really hard on finding a Strength boosting item, and you're not guaranteed to get one. They are items that show up routinely, but they're also popular, and there's a chance another player at the table needs them more. You also can't count on the table assigning items optimally. "We should give the wizard the Belt of Giant Strength so he can carry his spellbooks more easily," is a real thing that happens.

...

In the current season of AL, all players can claim the magic items. So he could def get gauntlets if playing a module that drops one.

[Kemev]

I would expect a BM/Hex to be using a 2 handed weapon using cha and elven accuracy to make GWM -5/+10 trivial, using its BM dice on precision when it doesn't have advantage, and riposte for extra swings.

I'm not sure how you intend to kill things.

He's kind of stuck for the first few levels. Hex Warrior only applies to one-handed weapons until Pact of the Blade at level 3, and then that's another 3 levels to BM, and then the build still hasn't gotten to a feat/ASI yet.

This is what I was saying above about the drawbacks of multiclassing. The soonest GWM + elven accuracy could come online with this concept is level 8 (Hex 4/BM 4), which means waiting 'til level 9 for a second attack (ouch). At some point it's easier just to play straight Hexblade; you're back to being SAD, and you don't delay attacks or ASIs.


In the current season of AL, all players can claim the magic items. So he could def get gauntlets if playing a module that drops one.

Oh, nice. Hopefully that makes it doubly easy to get (not only do you get an increased chance of getting one, but if other groups get more of them, maybe they're easier to trade for).

[Cikomyr2]

My mom is playing a frankensteinian multiclass that is made on the go. She started off as AN Eldritch Knight, but after reaching level 6 we agreed to convert her 2 Caster level From EK to Pact Magic, and she now is an Int-based Fey Warlock.

Fitting as she is a Winter Eladrin wearing a Diadem of Intellect

She loves it. Lots of cool combat synergy in the field of illusions and familiars.

[Yakk]

My mom is playing a frankensteinian multiclass that is made on the go. She started off as AN Eldritch Knight, but after reaching level 6 we agreed to convert her 2 Caster level From EK to Pact Magic, and she now is an Int-based Fey Warlock.

Fitting as she is a Winter Eladrin wearing a Diadem of Intellect

She loves it. Lots of cool combat synergy in the field of illusions and familiars.
Did you do anything except swap the slots?

A Pact Knight would be a nice subclass.

[Cikomyr2]

Did you do anything except swap the slots?

A Pact Knight would be a nice subclass.

We revised her spell list to fit a 3rd level warlock. I am considering giving her 3rd level warlock invocation, but I didn't want to overwhelm her right away with choices of invocations, so I just told her her Mage Armor spell is now a permanent thing, and I'll probably give her cool in-story invocations as we go.

While she met Mab, I did made her pick between the Book, the Sword and the Chain. Since all three features were already heavy part of her character (Fighter with Ritual spells with a familiar already) it was awesome to have the Warlock fit her theme so well.

She picked the Chain. So I am thinking of making nice Familiar combos fight moves with her.

[Yakk]

I was inspired, so I did a first pass at a Pact Knight; a Warlock themed Fighter subclass.

Rather than focusing on who your pact is with, I focused on book/blade/chain. So every class feature calls back to it.

I might also roll back some of the invocations this has. Maybe cut the additional ones at 15?

Pact Knight
When you choose this subclass at 3rd level, you gain the following bonuses:

Pact Magic
You cast as a warlock 1/3 of your level. Charisma is your casting stat for DCs and spell attack rolls.

You learn 2 Warlock cantrips. You know 2 warlock spells, plus 1 for every 2 (round down) fighter levels. When you gain a level you can swap a spell you know for another warlock spell you have slots to cast.

Pact of the Blade
You can summon a pact weapon as a bonus action. At the end of any turn when it isn't on your person, it disappears until summoned again. It is magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance. You can use this as a focus for your spells. Over a short rest, you can convert a magical weapon into your pact weapon.
Pact of the Book
You gain a book of secrets. You can cast warlock spells as rituals if they have the tag, and can transcribe any warlock spell into your book and use it as a ritual. You gain additional warlock spells known equal to your charisma bonus.
Pact of the Chain
You gain the find familiar spell. When you cast it, you can select additional familiar types (imp, Pseudodragon, Quasit, or Sprite). Your Familar gains +2 HP for every fighter class level you have, and has a bonus to its attacks, AC, saving throws and damage equal to your proficiency bonus.

Improved Pact
At 7th level your pact improves. First, you gain two Warlock invocations as if you where a level 3 Warlock.

Pact of the Blade
You can cast the Eldritch Blast cantrip as a melee spell attack when wielding your pact weapon, instead of a ranged spell attack. You may use your weapon's attack stat (strength, or optionally dexterity on a finess weapon) to attack instead of Charisma. If you do so, also add that score to damage.

Pact of the Book
You can now transcribe any ritual from any class into your book up to 1/2 of your character level, and cast them as a ritual. In addition you may cast a EK spell using an EK spell slot on a creature you hit with a melee weapon attack. If the spell involves an attack roll, it automatical hits; if it involves a saving throw, the creature has disadvantag on the save.

Pact of the Chain
You can command your familiar to attack as a bonus action. If your familiar hits, you have advantage on attack rolls on the target until the end of your turn. In addition, when you take your second wind, your familiar is healed as well; if your familiar has been dismissed when you take your second wind, it reforms next to you.

Life and Death
At 10th level, whenever you reduce a creature to 0 HP with an attack, you gain a benefit.

Pact of the Blade
You gain temporary HP equal to the creature's HP before it was reduced to 0 HP by the blow, up to a maximum of your fighter class level. If you hit a creature with your pact blade while you have these temporary HP, you can sacrifice them to deal extra damage equal to the temporary HP sacrificed.

Pact of the Book
The last thoughts of the creature you kill are added to your book. When this happens, you can sacrifice a HD to regain an EK spell slot. You may only do this once before completing a short rest.

Pact of the Chain
As a reaction, your familiar disappear can animate the creature if within 30' of it. The animated corpse has 1 HP, no legendary actions, cannot cast spells, and gets to act immediately after the current turn, and at the end of that turn it collapses and dies. The familar reappears in one of the creature's squares.

While possessing the creature, the familiar can some read surface thoughts, and induce it to say up to 3 words that could help the party (in a language the creature knows that the familiar can pick).

The Ties that Bind
At 15th level, your bond has grown strong. You gain 2 additional invocations as if you where a 7th level warlock.

Pact of the Blade
Your pact weapon deals an extra damage die. If you ever hold it in hand, you cannot drop it or dismiss it until it draws blood or your hand is removed from your body.

Pact of the Chain
If you are reduced to 0 HP, your familiar will possess your body much like it does your foes. You do not, however, die when it abandons you, but are instead left standing with 1 HP. It can do this once before you complete a short rest. While possessing you, it gets to rifle through your thoughts, deeper than it does on your foes, but need not say anything. It may report back findings to its master.

Pact of the Book
You can scribe the names of your allies in your book of shadows with their blood at the end of a long rest. They must sacrifice a HD as part of this magic, and do not regain it back until their name is no longer in the book. You know the direction, distance, current HP, and plane of anyone who is inscribed in your book of shadows this way, and cast spells that would only target them even if they are not in range.

Finally, if they are reduced to 0 HP, as a reaction you can sacrifice a HD. Instead of 0, their HP is reduced to the amount you roll on your HD, plus a roll of the HD they sacrificed to put their name in your book.

After this, their name is erased from the book.

You can have up to your charisma bonus names written in your book at a time.

Second Pact
At 18th level, pick another pact. Gain all of its benefits.

---

Maybe too strong, but I tried to go for super-creepy, yet not "fiend" or "fey" specific.

And yes, blade pacts at 7 do (1d10+str+cha)*2 with a pact dagger if they have agonizing blast.

The blade pact 10 can be used multiple times per turn.

Blade is about the Pact Weapon. It is superior to the Warlock one, because you are a Fighter.

Chain is about the familiar. It becomes a weapon of combat. The possession stuff is there for creep, and it can even be used out of combat (kill someone who doesn't want to talk, get 3 words out of them).

Book is about enhancing your spellcasting. The level 15 ability is inspired by the UA deathward invocation, but I wanted to make it extra creepy.

[Willie the Duck]

While a hexblade has quite a few little tricks that are fun to play around with, if being semi-SAD on Charisma isn't your primary purposes for picking hexblade, what is?

To put it another way, your eventual goal appears to be a medium armor character with a 16 ranged stat and belt of giant strength polearm. A S15 D15+1 C13+1 I10 W10 Ch8 pure battlemaster has a 16 ranged stat and belt of giant strength polearm, has a 1 higher AC, better initiative and dex save, and gets each increased number of attacks several levels earlier. What are you gaining (that you want) in return for this?