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SilveryCord
2007-10-29, 08:07 PM
Alice is starting into hypothetical campaign X which is held in a generic DnD word filled with Kingmakers, Votaries of Vecna, Binders, Shadowcasters, Truenamers, basically everything Tome of Magic. The hypothetical evil Eve has is known for powergaming; and the DM never says 'no'. To keep up with the roll playing, so that she has a chance to role play, Alice has decided to create a truely monster build.
What should she do?

Admissable Books: Tome of Magic, Core, Spell Compendium if you multiclass into an appropriate spellcaster.

Rachel Lorelei
2007-10-29, 08:16 PM
Binder 1/Wizard 3 with Improved Binding going into Anima Mage can be pretty monstrous--you get free metamagic, 3/day at Anima Mage 10; Persist is the obvious choice.

The_Snark
2007-10-29, 08:16 PM
This is going to be tough. Tome of Magic is a well-balanced book, leaning towards underpowered rather than overpowered. Most really powerful builds with it involve other sources as well (i.e. Naberius and the Hellfire warlock).

An anima mage using Persistent vestige metamagic can be good, I guess; you only need 1 level of binder and the rest in a spellcasting class. A straight binder can be pretty good with the right vestiges, too. The shadowcaster is pretty weak at low levels, but fun at higher levels.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-29, 08:19 PM
You say it'll be loaded with magicky guys? Witch slayer. If the capsone works, there's no casting for you.

Galathir
2007-10-29, 09:39 PM
I never thought I'd see "broken" and "ToM" in the same sentence but since I did, I'd have to go with Binder/Wizard as Rachel already mentioned. That's about all that comes to my mind.

BardicDuelist
2007-10-29, 09:41 PM
To break ToM, multiclass into a core spellcasting class.

Hasivel
2007-10-29, 11:55 PM
If casters are everywhere Karsites become rather powerful as a race. But as said, ToM is not an unbalanced book by any means. Just to be contrary and go against the binder, who's pretty universally agreed as the toughest of the three, I'll try to make a Truenamer.

Truenaming is based primarily on a skill so I suppose if you were to put together a really monstrously min-maxed truename skill you might have something. Let's see:

Assuming level 20 your truespeak skill can get:
23 ranks in skill.
+3 From Skill Focus.
Int bonus of +12 (18 base, +5 level up, +5 Tome, +6 Item)
+2 from a Masterwork Tool (Dictionary of pronounciation?)
+10 from The Amulet of the Silver Tongue.
+1 from a Luckstone.
+1 from a Pale Green Ioun Stone.
+5 from your own utterance, Universal Aptitude.
+?? from your Followers.

This gives a minimum of +57 before your followers play a role. Do note that the TN for my powers to affect somebody is 15 + 2x their CR or HD if no CR is available. Since an enemy of my own caliber is merely a TN 55, I have a 100% chance of nailing him not only with my first casting, but my second at -2 as well.

The core item creation rules allow non-epic skill boost items of up to +30. This would be a custom item so YMMV. On the other hand it's not exactly bracers of true strike.

The follower bit is quite important. Since Charisma sets the save DC of your utterances, you'll want to beef it up a bit. Since Truenamers don't need many feats and this build relies on only one feat (Skill Focus) you can surely spare one for Leadership. At level 20 it will be child's play to get a 25 leadership score for a maximum number of followers. They're going to be giving our Truenamer a bit of a boost.

1 Follower of fifth level (we get 2) will be a Pixie 4/Marshall 1 with Motivate intelligence. Even if Cohorts have bog-standard attributes he gets Cha 16. Another of our Followers, a level 4 Wizard, will cast Eagle's Splendor on him for 20 Cha, and his minor aura is motivate intelligence. All my followers, and myself, get +5 to such skills including truenaming.

Four of our third level followers will be bards. They will inspire competence in all present for a +2 bonus. That gives us inspire competence for almost half an hour a day, all we should need.

We've got plenty of nice followers left after this. My 13 second level cohorts are all fire elf truenamers, with high (20) int, full ranks in truenaming, and the skill focus feat. This puts their bonus at +13. Of course they're also motivated with Charisma and sucking down the Bardic music. Heck might as well toss in a few Fox's Cunning spells from my remaining followers to give them another +2 to their int skills. Amulets of the Silver Tongue +10 are a mere 10,000GP so I'll go ahead and buy 13, it's pricey but this will pay off.
add in a set of 13 masterwork tools for +2 more, and finally On a natural 20 they can hit +54. Shoot, just one more point and this would work. . . wait. . . are those bards who aren't currently using bardic music casting the first level Improvisation spell from Spell Compendium to give a +1 luck bonus for up to six checks per casting, for a total possible maximum check of +55? They are!
That means each of my followers who is a Truenamer could, on a natural 20, hit the 55 DC to affect a CR 20 opponent. So each of them can give me aid another for +26 more. In a pinch they can toss each other or even themselves a Universal Aptitude (+5 to any skill) to keep them going past even that limit.

Net result? My truenamer check is boosted by +33 more from followers for an astounding total of +90. I can blast creatures in my own weight class all day long. I can take on epic enemies with confidence that only the lowest dice rolls will matter. There's probably even a few tricks I've missed, notably I haven't used any limited-use items like alchemical stuff, to boost it more.

Now just pick some other really powerful build for your level 17 Cohort and buff him to the max, since that's where Truenamers shine. Yeah, I've built the bard from hell. But he's so versatile. Deny Passage means you go where I say you can go. Transmute Weapon means not worrying about DR from materials anymore. Evil Wizard attacking the city? Funny how I just used Sieze Item on his spellbook. No, you're not going to hurt my cohort, I just gave him fast healing 20 and tossed in full fortification on his armor. Oh, and your weapon? Yeah, it's not magical anymore. His is transformed into whatever pierces your DR, of course, and I handed him another +5 to hit and damage from Knight's Puissance.

And you have to admit the flavor of this character is rather awesome. A lone warrior emerges to fight the hideous threat, and suddenly a huge choir forms up behind him and starts chanting and singing, and powers him up to godlike levels even as their chant causes the enemy to weaken and suffer and the very landscape around them to shift and churn with power.

Rachel Lorelei
2007-10-30, 12:34 AM
If you're going to abuse followers, there are better ways to do it. The thing is, even if a Truenamer can do what he does all day, the things he can do just aren't very impressive. And you have to make it through all those levels, too. And that assumes that you get to build your own followers, not just cohorts, as you would a PC.

Plus your followers all die the first time they fight something. Boom, dead.

And despite all that, nothing you can do is really a lot compared to someone who's got full casting (one CL lost) with, for example, Greater Blink, Divine Power, and Bite of the Werebear running all day, and Shapechange on top of that.

Hasivel
2007-10-30, 12:51 AM
Yeah, I know there's better ways to abuse followers than this. However note that we're using ToM builds. They're inherently weaker than full-caster druids or wizards or similar builds. Saying the full-caster can beat them is beside the point, if we weren't limited to mostly Tome of Magic stuff we could use those, but that isn't much of a ToM build when you're using one level from the books and everything else from some other source.

Rachel Lorelei
2007-10-30, 12:56 AM
Anima Mage is also from ToB. You have more levels of Anima Mage than of anything else.

jameswilliamogle
2007-10-30, 06:26 AM
Truenamers aren't going to do very well in that book-set, as a lot of the Truespeek check bonuses come from non-core material. I think it would have a hard time keeping up.

Shadowcasters as written suck; I think a lot of people agree w/ that.

There's lots of funky PrC combinations you could probably do, though. They generally are fun and flavorful.

Anima Mage is probably the most powerful class available, but in that environment Druid 20 still FTW. Persistant Spell isn't available in his book-set (unless core = SRD, which then includes psionics, etc).

There's little more rewarding than playing a character w/ Pounce and Shocktrooper, but you can't pull that off in your book-set (Chupoclops + Shocktrooper = my favorite Binder combo). Binder 15 / KoSS gets BAB 16, full Binding throughout, become outsiders (hello, alter self wand). Binders can do just about anything pretty well, though not really excel at any given thing.

Have you seen the consolidated Binder handbook?
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=784085

Fax Celestis
2007-10-30, 11:10 AM
To break ToM, multiclass into a core spellcasting class.

Exactly. Binder/Wizard/Anima Mage was mentioned. I have a personal fondness for Shadowcaster/Wizard/Noctumancer/Mystic Theurge myself.

Also, with a little finagling and a little bit of alteration (all of which requires DM approval), one could go Shadowcaster/Crusader/Jade Phoenix Mage.