Classes analogous to Duskblade from 3.5?

[Gnome Alone]

Howdy friendos – so, I’m gonna be playing a 12th level character in a one-shot in a few days, and I haven’t quite decided what to go with. I had a thought, though – my favorite character that I played in 3.5 was an uncouth, scholarly, freedom-lovin’ human duskblade, and I thought, maybe I’ll translate him into this 5e dungeon and say “it’s the same guy but in an alternate universe!”

Assuming I do that, two thoughts occur – one, is there a decent analog for a duskblade in 5e? I don’t think there’s anything that’s, y’know, directly channeling spells through a melee strike to do an entire-aisle-of-dice-in-a-gaming-store’s worth of damage as class did in 3.5, but, surely there’s some way to approximate? Hexblade-warlock? Sorcadin? (There’s still sorcadins in 5e, right?) Something else entirely? (As you might be able to tell, I am a wee bit new to 5e.)

Thinky-thought number two though - since I’m already traipsing through the multiverse and changing characteristics about the guy, I don’t have to stick with duskblade or duskblade-adjacent; in the 3.5 campaign I played him in, he was a devout worshipper of Fharlanghn. I could say, hey, this is the world where he full-on became a priest of Fharlanghn. If I did that, I think I’d still wanna be a bit melee; are clerics still good at melee in this edition?

Last and least… could I combine hexblade-warlock and cleric? Seems like it’d be a bit MAD, but if there are shenanigans that make it doable, well, I might want to doable it. (Wokka wokka.)

Not asking anyone to build the character for me or anything; I don’t need super in-depth build advice, just hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance, O glorious geeks, hallowed be thy playground, etc.

[No brains]

What in particular do you like about duskblade? If you want to channel spells through your sword, the closest analogue might be some form of smite.

[heavyfuel]

Sorcadin is probably the closest thing in 5e, trading spell slots for extra damage. Pally 6/Sorc 6 if you want extra attack (might as well get lv 6 for Aura of Protection and an extra multiclass casting level), or Pally 2 / Sorc 10 for straight blasting with a SCAG cantrip.

Nothing that works like the signature Arcane Chanelling, though.

Although... If you would allow such a shameless plug: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDbxueP0yV4hXj28lPY1zN9i1W88lNqsYBSekZr2ukY/edit

Honestly, the class is a bit too strong up until ~level 3, then it mellows out. At level 12, I'm positive the class will do slightly worse than a Paladin and considerably worse than any full caster.

[OldTrees1]

Hmm.

Rogue 20 (Arcane Trickster subclass) with Green Flame Blade and/or Booming Blade cantrips.
Sneak Attack is expected every round in 5E and it works on the weapon attack Cantrips like GFB.

Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 14
Divine Smite is a similar burst of damage.

Fighter 18+ (Eldritch Knight)
Eldritch Knight on the other hand is similar to what the hasted Duskblade was. You cast spells and attack in the same turn. Although it is higher level
At 7th you attack and then cast a cantrip
At 18th you cast a spell and then attack


Last and least… could I combine hexblade-warlock and cleric? Seems like it’d be a bit MAD, but if there are shenanigans that make it doable, well, I might want to doable it. (Wokka wokka.)

Totally doable.

MAD no longer really exists in 5E. The playground would swear you would need 16 Cha, 16 Wis, 14 Con (21 point buy for Half Elf) for that multiclass. But you could do with 14, 14, 12 or less. The d20 is a big component of all 5E math.

[Gnome Alone]

What in particular do you like about duskblade? If you want to channel spells through your sword, the closest analogue might be some form of smite.

Well, what I liked about that character was the fistfuls of moider-dice, and how every bit of "fluff" description of the class suggested a sophisticated, cultured elf or elf-y warrior, but the way I played him was as like a drunken college dropout lout who'd somehow stumbled across arcane power. I got yer wizard powers, right inna face. That kinda thing. And yeah, Smiting seems like it'd work.


Sorcadin is probably the closest thing in 5e, trading spell slots for extra damage. Pally 6/Sorc 6 if you want extra attack

Although... If you would allow such a shameless plug: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDbxueP0yV4hXj28lPY1zN9i1W88lNqsYBSekZr2ukY/edit


I think the sorcadin may be what I go with; Smiting is close enough. I *am* impressed with your homebrew, but my DM has a strong distaste for homebrew in general, and I'd rather not irritate him any more than I already am (this group's played a few one-shot modules before, and he's just giving us four free levels so that we can play this other one, and if I change my character out to the pseudo-duskblade, I'll be the only one full-on changing characters.) Thank you though!


Hmm.

Rogue 20 (Arcane Trickster subclass)

Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 14

Fighter 18+ (Eldritch Knight)


These all sound promising, and I hate to be such a snotball, but, uh, I don't think the one-shot will have us gaining eight levels.



Totally doable.


Ah, but is it, y'know, good? Is it worth it and/or better than a straight classed 12th level cleric or hexblade would be?

[Yakk]

Hex/Cleric can do thingd clerics cannot. Vice versa is also true.

---

Laying down weapon based pain in 5e has a few paths.

(1) Great weapon mastery, get lots of attacks and advantage
(2) Sharpshooter, get lots of attacks and advantage
(3) Quickened Booming Blade
(4) Readied and bonus action sneak attack
(5) Elven accuracy, 19-20 crit range, lots of dice to dump on crits, lots of attacks
(6) Concentration spells that pour out damage
(7) Smite+lots of slots
(8) Multismite (many smite pools)
(9) action surge

Mechanically, an extra attack is often key (requires 5 in a fighter-type class, hex 5, or a 5-6 in a fighting hybrid subclass).

There are some gonzo builds that turn on around 12. Amusingly they aren't going to outdamage a GWM fighter 12 over even a short adventuring day, but they be gonzo.

Hex 3/Pal 6/Samurai 3
Hex 5/Pal 2/Samurai 3/Sorc 2

Built around elven accuracy (requires half elf or elf).

Paladin 6/Hex 1/Whispers Bard 5

Smite+Whispers smite. Cha to all saves, attacks, whisper-smite uses/short rest.

Fighter 1/Sword-bard 11

Poach holy weapon and find greater steed. Be a fake paladin, get 5th level paladin spells 5 levels early.

PAM+GWM+18 str+14 cha. Use a glave, attack 3x/round for 28.5/28.5/25.5 average each.

Or swap holy weapon for haste. Which lands on your mount. Taps are great (haste adds 1 attack/round)

Next level get mounted feat if you fight human sized foes; advantage when mounted!

Paladin 2/Hex 1/Swords bard 9
max smite slots on an extra attack+cha SAD build.

Paladin 6/Lore bard 6
not SAD, but gets 2 poached spells
Pal 6/Sorc 6
quickened booming blade + smites

Pal 6/Hex 1/Sorc 5
SAD cha version

[Nikushimi]

Honestly, the two options I see is simple.

Eldritch Knight with Green-Flame Blade cantrip. You cast it as part of your attack. On a hit you deal the weapons attack damage plus the cantrips Fire Damage. Good thing about this is that the Fire Damage can also hit a second target as long as they are within 5ft of the original target.

Or, go Paladin with Smite. It's single target, and you can designate when to Smite. So you can save it until you get a critical. If your DM follows that rule and hasn't homebrewed otherwise.

Personally, I dislike the fact that a Paladin doesn't have to call out their smite before their attack, but that's just me.

So, out of the options, those are the two that I'd go with.

Go Sorcadin if you really want the spell slots to use those smites, but that would make you more squishy. So keep that in mind when going into melee.

[Eldariel]

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 10 is honestly what I'd go with. Then just Twin Boom Blade and so on, while smiting to your heart's content. It's the closest analogy - an extremely competent burst damage dealer. That's basically what Duskblade is too; it doesn't have auras or any of that nonsense, just pure smitey goodness. Alternatively, Paladin 2/Wizard 10 actually works too and might just be even better. Pally Smite doesn't care about Charisma so you can go 13 Cha and then just focus on Int. In that case you might want to go Bladesinger for Extra Attack to make up for lacking Twin Spell + Booming Blade though (extra attacks are really good with Smite, for obvious reasons). You're one level short of stealing a more martial body with Magic Jar if you want Smite too.

[Mr Adventurer]

Don't forget the Sage background for the scholarly aspect.

[Sception]

paladin, eldritch knight, arcane trickster, hexblade, bladesinger, sword bard, or most weapon leaning cleric domains can all sort of work for the duskblade concept as single classed characters, depending on what aspects & flavor of duskblade are most important to you, whether you want to lean more towards tanking or dps, more towards spells or weapons, and more towards heavy armor big weapons or light or medium armor finesse weapons.

With a multiclassing you could go sorcerer with paladin and/or hexblade dip, hexadin, sorcadin or bardadin with or without hex dip, bladesinger multiclassed with eldritch knight or arcane trickster, hexbard, etc.

If you're specifically looking for the duskblades big damage hits, consider a half drow hexblade 3+, paladin 2+, shadow sorcerer the rest, not necessarily in that order, probably aiming to hit at least 5 levels of either hexblade or paladin for extra attack, with elven accuracy, using darkness for advantage plus the occasional quickened booming blade plus hexblade's curse when needed for extra crit range, to fish fot crits then smite on them for double smite damage. maybe once you have your shadiw beast, use it plus quickened hold person to guarantee some crits.

Not as reliable as duskblade was, and not as scholarly given the cha focus, but if you loved rolling a lot of damage dice at a time with weapon attacks that are also magic, that'll more or less do it.

[OldTrees1]

These all sound promising, and I hate to be such a snotball, but, uh, I don't think the one-shot will have us gaining eight levels.
The only one that cared about that was Fighter.

Rogue starts acting like Duskblade at level 3.
Paladin 6 / Sorcerer X will have 3rd level spells at 12th.
Fighter 12 will only have the 7th level feature so it will be cantrip+attack instead of spell+attack.


Ah, but is it, y'know, good? Is it worth it and/or better than a straight classed 12th level cleric or hexblade would be?
Either class could dip the other for some perks that are worth it. But you probably won't do a 50/50. As for MAD, you will be fine.
Cleric 1 / Hexblade X
Cleric X / Hexblade 2-3

[Chronos]

A pure paladin is already equivalent to a duskblade. Sure, you can multiclass it with something else, but then, that was true of the duskblade, too. But it's the paladin part that's giving you all of the duskbladiness.

[OldTrees1]

A pure paladin is already equivalent to a duskblade. Sure, you can multiclass it with something else, but then, that was true of the duskblade, too. But it's the paladin part that's giving you all of the duskbladiness.

Kinda hard to cast certain arcane spells as a straight Paladin. But perhaps you could swap the Paladin list for an arcane half caster list?

[Gnome Alone]

Welp, seeing as how the general consensus seems to be that paladin with or without some tweaks is the best translation (and divine instead of arcane wouldn’t really be a dealbreaker, as I’m already making an “alternate universe” version) and seeing as how the character I already have that I was thinking about replacing is already a paladin… I think I’m just gonna go with the original one (but I might have to pick up a hexblade level, ha.)

Although, it is nice to know that there are apparently a kajillion and one different ways to do this idea, should I wish to do it in the future. Thanks, all.

[heavyfuel]

A pure paladin is already equivalent to a duskblade. But it's the paladin part that's giving you all of the duskbladiness.

Except when you consider flavor, signature abilities, proficiencies, and spells available. :smalltongue:

[OldTrees1]

Welp, seeing as how the general consensus seems to be that paladin with or without some tweaks is the best translation (and divine instead of arcane wouldn’t really be a dealbreaker, as I’m already making an “alternate universe” version) and seeing as how the character I already have that I was thinking about replacing is already a paladin… I think I’m just gonna go with the original one (but I might have to pick up a hexblade level, ha.)

Although, it is nice to know that there are apparently a kajillion and one different ways to do this idea, should I wish to do it in the future. Thanks, all.

On the Paladin / Warlock front:
Paladin 6-7 / Warlock 5 is a nice start for a duskblade.

[Gnome Alone]

On the Paladin / Warlock front:
Paladin 6-7 / Warlock 5 is a nice start for a duskblade.

Hm, my already extant paladin character is level 8... so it could be paladin 8/warlock 4. Don't need that 8th level there though, eh?

I'll have to see what I can do there... DM may let me re-make the whole thing; we're playing on Roll20, and they try to make you miserable enough to buy their website's version of the books by doing things like only having one subclass in the options. So when I rolled him up he was an Oath of Devotion paladin, even though it'd make way more sense for him to be an Oath of the Ancients guy (he's like, Spicoli as paladin, very laid back, all sweetness and light) and it was my first stab at a 5e guy. I'm thinking the DM will let me re-do that, so maybe he'll let me swap around a paladin level as well. Although I guess I better do a comparison of Paladin 11/Hexblade 1 and Paladin 7/Hexblade 5.

[OldTrees1]

Hm, my already extant paladin character is level 8... so it could be paladin 8/warlock 4. Don't need that 8th level there though, eh?

Well by 14th level I would suggest Paladin 9 / Warlock 5. The starting level of 12 made Paladin 6-7 / Warlock 5 a more common breakpoint. Paladin 6 is the BIG Aura (except Paladins of Ancients which get another great one at 7). Warlock 5 is 3rd level spells.

[Yakk]

Well by 14th level I would suggest Paladin 9 / Warlock 5. The starting level of 12 made Paladin 6-7 / Warlock 5 a more common breakpoint. Paladin 6 is the BIG Aura (except Paladins of Ancients which get another great one at 7). Warlock 5 is 3rd level spells.
And warlock-smites.

[OldTrees1]

And warlock-smites.

If you mean 3rd level slots for smiting, yes.
If you mean Eldritch Smite invocation, technically that is available but I would advise against it. Paladin 5 already lets you spend 2 slots per round, you don't really have enough slots to sustain 4 slots per round. So it is an option, but not one I advise.

[Yakk]

If you mean 3rd level slots for smiting, yes.
If you mean Eldritch Smite invocation, technically that is available but I would advise against it. Paladin 5 already lets you spend 2 slots per round, you don't really have enough slots to sustain 4 slots per round. So it is an option, but not one I advise.
So, on an elf Hex 5/Paladin 2+, you can get 27% crit chance with advantage.

Once you have the ability to get crits, getting Eldritch Smite gives you the ability to double-smite on a crit, doubling the efficiency of your slots, and the frequency of crits and ability to double-dip on them makes holding out much easier.

Hex 5/Samurai 3/Pal 2/Sorc X. At level 12 you are Sorc 2, and have 3rd level casting (4 level 1/2 level 2 slots) plus 2 short rest 3rd level slots.

On a crit you get to dump a level 2 for 6d8 and a level 3 for 8d8, or +14d8 damage (63).

I mean, this is just a gonzo build, in that you might as well have gone pure paladin or fighter and gotten similar damage, but it does fit the OP's requirement of "dump magic into damage".

[OldTrees1]

I mean, this is just a gonzo build, in that you might as well have gone pure paladin or fighter and gotten similar damage, but it does fit the OP's requirement of "dump magic into damage".
This is a fair point. I still wouldn't advise it personally but I recognize it being on theme. Some of this is subjective preference differences between you and me. There are other invocations I prefer more and that you prefer less.

[Chronos]

It's exactly as easy or as hard to cast arcane spells as a paladin as it is to cast arcane spells as a sorcerer. How do you do it? You say "I'm casting arcane spells". There's no effect from a paladin saying that, but then, there's no effect from a sorcerer saying that, either. The only distinction between arcane casting and divine casting in 5e is what the player says it is.

As for flavor, other abilities, etc., a duskblade is a full warrior and partial caster who channels their magical energy through their weapon. A paladin is a full warrior and partial caster who channels their magical energy through their weapon. The only difference, fluff-wise, is that a paladin has to have some sort of ethos, but there are so many to choose from that you're bound to find one that works for your character.

[OldTrees1]

It's exactly as easy or as hard to cast arcane spells as a paladin as it is to cast arcane spells as a sorcerer. How do you do it? You say "I'm casting arcane spells". There's no effect from a paladin saying that, but then, there's no effect from a sorcerer saying that, either. The only distinction between arcane casting and divine casting in 5e is what the player says it is.

As for flavor, other abilities, etc., a duskblade is a full warrior and partial caster who channels their magical energy through their weapon. A paladin is a full warrior and partial caster who channels their magical energy through their weapon. The only difference, fluff-wise, is that a paladin has to have some sort of ethos, but there are so many to choose from that you're bound to find one that works for your character.

You did realize that was not what I meant.

Duskblades had access to a certain collection of spells. That collection of spells is not on the 5E Paladin list because it was on the 3E Wizard list rather than the 3E Cleric list.

Hence my comment about how it might be worth asking about using the Paladin class but swapping the list to a half arcane caster instead of a half divine caster.

However this is a bit moot in for the OP because the OP said
divine instead of arcane wouldn’t really be a dealbreaker, as I’m already making an “alternate universe” version

[Vogie]

Channel all damage through a weapon? Sure.

Paladin 2 / Lore bard 10. Shillelagh (@ lore bard 6)/Smite with heavy armor and shields. All Charisma, all the time, watch thine enemies Explode.

Blade Warlock 5 / War Wizard 7. Eldritch Smite, extra attack, medium armor & shield, plus arcane deflection. Bonuses when you occasionally mess up someone's day with Dispel Magic & Counterspell. Arcane Deflection basically doesn't have a downside since your MO is typically hitting things with cantrip-fueled melee attacks.

Bladesinger 10 / Paladin 2. Light Armor + Bladesong, most spell slots used for smites or Song of Defense.

Gloom Stalker Ranger 5 / War Cleric 7. An absurd number of attacks, with invisibility to darkvision thrown in for good measure. Could also go GSR5 / Paladin 2 / WC 5, with less spell slots, but the ability to smite.