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View Full Version : Player Help How to play a smart character when your dumb as a box of rocks



GrottoSteelKlaw
2020-07-19, 01:31 PM
Discussion is as it says on the tin, I as a player am trying to play a city watch type character who's backstory says he was smart enough to get too close to uncovering something big, but was framed before his notes could be reviewed, and thus became an adventurer.

I have one Idea and that is taking copious amounts of notes even though I might have to ask for things to be repeated several times.

Kyutaru
2020-07-19, 01:38 PM
DM: The enemy is holed up in the fortress. Armed guards at every entrance.
You: Okay, I devise a plan that lets us sneak in through the roof.
DM: Okay, roll an Intelligence check at a penalty for the watchmen.
You: *passes*
DM: Your plan succeeds and you infiltrate undetected.

Quertus
2020-07-19, 03:14 PM
Let's see… this character isn't "smart", they're good at investigating… and this is in the general "role-playing" forum.

Well, it depends on the system. Some systems, you'd just put ranks in "investigation", done.

But let's say that your GM is making "investigation" be based on player skills, and you lack the corresponding skills.

How do you roleplay this character then? Um… you can't? No, really. If I want to break the Olympic records, but I physically can't, then, well, I can't. It's really just that simple.

Similarly, if, say, all games of chess are played "in character", with player skills, you can't "roleplay" a "chess master" unless you have those skills.

Just like, if you want to play a super "tank", but are actually the squishiest thing in the world, well, you can't.

So, what you have to do is, you have to find out, from the GM, how much of "investigation" is going to be "mechanics", and how much is going to be "player skill", and determine if you actually *can* play this character.

If you can't… you can try to negotiate an increased dependence on mechanics / alternate, mechanical paths. Or you could, I suppose, offload *that portion* of the character to the GM / the group.

Or you could try to bone up on the necessary skills. Which… might work?

icefractal
2020-07-19, 04:57 PM
For being good at investigation specifically, mechanics can get you at least part of the way, since "noticing things / searching" is usually a skill check. And I'd say, take notes on anything that seems potentially important. For several reasons:
1) It fits the character, and will give people the impression of you being an investigator even if you don't solve mysteries any more than the other players.
2) Sometimes having that info will lead you to an answer.
3) Even if it doesn't, you can lay it out to the group like: "Let's consider the facts of the situation ..." and see if anyone else gets inspired. A solution made possible by your investigation, even though you're not the one who made the final leap.

Also, you should check this ahead of time, but most GMs allow Wisdom or Intelligence checks to remember something your character's heard in passing but you've forgotten. And if it was something you paid attention to at the time then really no check should be needed.

Making plans is a trickier area, because if you abstract that out then you remove a big chunk of the gameplay, in many people's opinion. Fortunately, being a great investigator doesn't need to mean being a tactical/strategic mastermind.

Wise Weasel
2020-07-19, 06:21 PM
Well, you can't really.

If your DM is up for it, you can just roll an intelligence check before your character takes any action and the DM will let you know what your character might think of that action.

You could pay attention and take lots of notes....always a good idea. You might even ask the DM for more notes. E-mail works great for this.

Try watching as many cop shows as you can. You can find tons online. Maybe throw in a couple episodes of MacGuyver and Sherlock.

sktarq
2020-07-20, 01:30 PM
Firstly how much is it going to come into play now that you are an adventurer and not an investigator?

because if the game is very hack-and-slash it doesn't come up as much.

other ideas are to work with your DM. where you can ask vague goal related questions (is there anything that can be done to find out X info, who would have the kind of tools to bypass this obstacle) so that you can get hints that make it look like your character came up with a plan you couldn't as a player...issues with any DM-help style of countering this problem will come into play. The big ones are it can feel like the DM has too much control of your character and also the DM needs to be smart enough to come up with plans worthy of the int score.
This can be tweeked in any number of ways. But the basic premise of "stating goal" and having the DM work out the means is basically universal. If asked about it just point out that it is little different than rolling an attack roll (with selecting the type of strike, timing, being able to power through defenses etc all being subsumed to that one roll)

Hand_of_Vecna
2020-07-20, 06:26 PM
There's a difference between not being foolish, having knowledge/smart people skills, and being clever.


I've met plenty of dumb as a box of rocks players who think they can play a smart character just by doing what they would do except with the ability to roll high numbers on "smart people skills". That you realize you can't just pick up a sheet with some high numbers on it and portray a smart character demonstrates that you have a measure of this trait. I'm guessing that your table doesn't often groan at the stupid stuff your characters do unless your purposefully doing what your character would do?

Having smart people skills is simple, just have the skills. While it can be nice to know the lingo and the whys and wherefores of a skill being used you just rolling is and not being able to provide much flavor text or drawing from a movie that may be inaccurate is just as legitimate when you do it as when most players roll a survival check or make an attack roll for that matter. I find plenty of smart people's descriptions of combat moves really cringey at times so have at it.

The last is the ability to make novel connections between disconnected knowledge, figure things out, have eureka moments, what have you. This may be a problem. People have already suggested copious note taking. Because of the way roleplaying games work where there is only so much information transmitted most things that strike you as odd will be important. Remember that in most settings nobody will expect you to have a preponderance of evidence that would meet a modern Western standard. Adventurers are generally expected to make rather bold leaps forward.

When you've settled on one or two odd notes about a scene; pick a skill or character trait and ask if that tells you anything about it. "Does my knowledge of local folklore tell me anything about the doll." The phrase "look for anything unusual about X" will probably be your bread and butter.

What will be harder to fake is actually connecting clues. Depending on your DM and system you may be able to just ask if you can find a connection between two clues. If that isn't a connection you could just try asking out loud in a considerate thinking voice "could there be a connection be between the troglodytes and the cigar wrapper?" then just list things you know about troglodytes and cigars, if someone else figures out the connection you'll be given partial credit. There are even manipulative tricks you could use. Use a slightly more confident voice.

You: I think there may be a connection between this cigar wrapper and the troglodytes.

Player who is good at mysteries (Mysty): Really?

You: What do we know about Troglodytes (this could be via an earlier knowledge check you took notes on) they are subterranian creatures that give off an odor repulsive to humans which is actually their method of internal communication.

Mysty: You think that someone may be using cigars smoke to communicate messages to the troglodytes?

You: Precisely!

In this scene Mysty did the actual connecting of diverse clues all you did was realize what the most odd things about two scenes were, but with a good execution you are able to claim an idea that Mysty had as your own making your character appear to be measurably better at solving puzzles than Mysty. You'll have to decide on the ethics of this yourself, if Mysty wants to not play the smart character for once they might jump at the opportunity to play Watson to your Holmes.

ebarde
2020-07-30, 01:09 PM
I feel that a player get's to play a character way smarter than they are, cause they can think about their actions for a long time and are fairly dettached from the situation, while in-universe everything a character does is in the moment and a lot they have to improvise while trying to not get stabbed or mauled. Also, I suppose you could try some mannerisms that are related to intelligence, like being very deliberate when pronouncing words or using a lot of metaphors. Also, during downtime you could always try to strike conversations about more bookwormy topics, and always be looking for opportunities to make knowledge or insight roles to glean a bit more info out of your DM.

Darth Credence
2020-07-30, 03:11 PM
First, if you are able to comprehend the rules of a TTRPG and play it successfully, there is no way you are dumber than a box of rocks. Don't sell yourself short. There may be smarter players at the table, but that doesn't make anyone else dumb.
Second, it will probably require working with the DM to play a really smart character. You can have them feed you more information under the table than the others get, representing increased knowledge you can get from things. There are a lot of really good ideas already on here, so I think you'll be just fine.

Drew's Alias
2020-07-31, 02:32 AM
Play someone who is observant yet reticent. If you play the type of character that notices everything but keeps their own counsel, the pressure to always have something smart to say is reduced. In addition to that, choose some basic skills that are improved by a solid intelligence score and have a legitimate mechanical use. Make sure you employ those skills whenever it makes sense to do so. Once you've established your area of expertise, just stay in your lane! Actual smart people aren't experts at everything, and they typically understand that. A brilliant moral philosopher may passionately and frequently expound the virtues of a Contractarian-Utilitarian moral framework, but will probably have nothing whatsoever to add to a conversation about Einstein's theory of special relativity.

NorthernPhoenix
2020-08-04, 05:50 AM
A much underestimated technique in this regard is simply to look to fictional characters that match the archetype you're going for, and try to emulate them.

CarpeGuitarrem
2020-08-04, 06:41 AM
Don't forget that you can also plug the table and workshop ideas during the play session. "Hey, I want to say something clever here, what's something I might say?" And then somebody floats something and you're like "Oh yeah, totally that!"

Gtdead
2020-08-14, 08:45 AM
I think you need to ask yourself more questions about what you lack as a player compared to how you have to act as a PC. I doubt that you are dumb as a rock and I think what you really are after is a very simple explanation on something that you probably don't have much experience with. Immersion and experience are important. Even the smartest player would have trouble devising a plan without having a good grasp of the situation and enough experience with how the world works and how the DM reacts to ideas.

The great thing with most roleplaying games is that you don't actually have to flesh out and apply a complex idea. A vague interpretation of an idea and a dice roll are usually how the game is played and there is no guarantee that it will work, even if you are the smartest guy on the planet.

A funny 5e story to get this point across easier:
We were being chased by cultists. We had already done 4 combats in a row and frankly I was bored to do another one. So I though, why don't we try to trap them and set them on fire. We were low level and are enemies were mostly low level humanoids, so I talked to my party and proposed that we will lure them inside a tavern, barricade them inside and set the place on fire. We set up the place, lure them inside with a familiar and illusions, while we were waiting outside hidden. Every cultist gets inside, we barricade the exits and light the place on fire. All in all a good plan, or so we though...., because the cultists just sidestepped the hazardous tiles and jumped out of the second floor window, taking minimal to no damage. We then had to fight them.

Moral of the story: A plan will work only if the DM wills it.

And to get a bit technical as far as the concept is concerned, an investigator is a curious person that asks questions, and once he has enough information, he tries to make connections. Rinse and repeat till the end. Also he is someone that doesn't talk too much and everything he does is methodical. He doesn't really do heroics or come up with plans on the fly. He waits and gathers information and applies knowledge until the way forward is obvious.

Information comes from being curious and asking questions about things that attract your attention.
Knowledge comes from the DM.

Keep taking notes and ask questions and you will be fine. Also invest on investigation and sense motive/insight skills. Knowing when someone lies is a roll. You don't need to apply smarts to figure it out.