Incarnum and Akasha

[thelastorphan]

I have searched around but my Google-Fu has failed me.

I am wondering if someone has put any thought into what Akashic classes might have access to the soulmelds found in Magic of Incarnum? Its a subsystem I adore. Has a reassigning of the original Soulmelds been done or will I need to comb through it myself? Even if it's simply giving the class lists whole cloth to one of the new Akashic classes? I know a lot of the skill ones would need updated wording.

Are there any other fans of the subsystem here that would have any input to help guide me in such a direction? An awful lot of you seem to be much better at the whole design side of things then I might be and probably have better instincts on where different soulmelds should go.

[Psyren]

Minmax had a thread (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=11784.0) that attempted to do what you describe. It converted the Incarnum classes wholesale rather than reassigning their soulmelds to one of the veilweaving classes, but the thread did update both the races and the soulmeld bonuses themselves to PF, so it could be a good starting point for you.

[Ssalarn]

I have searched around but my Google-Fu has failed me.

I am wondering if someone has put any thought into what Akashic classes might have access to the soulmelds found in Magic of Incarnum? Its a subsystem I adore. Has a reassigning of the original Soulmelds been done or will I need to comb through it myself? Even if it's simply giving the class lists whole cloth to one of the new Akashic classes? I know a lot of the skill ones would need updated wording.

Are there any other fans of the subsystem here that would have any input to help guide me in such a direction? An awful lot of you seem to be much better at the whole design side of things then I might be and probably have better instincts on where different soulmelds should go.

I have most of the Incarnum soulmelds in my house rules doc, but the long and short of it is:
Viziers get most incarnate soulmelds as veils

Daevics get soulborn soulmelds as veils and the totemist's non-totem melds

Gurus have a curated selection from incarnate and soulborn

For the later akashic classes

Eclipse gets a mix of incarnate and soulborn focused on melee power and skills (and the necrocarnate stuff)

Nexus gets basically all the soulborn with a splash of incarnate and totemist

Radiant gets a small list of curated melds, like Armguards of Disruption, Beast Tamer Circlet, Diadem of Purelight, and basically anything else that hits the themes of fey, light, or healing.

I never did meld conversions for zodiac, because they have a curated list already and they had way more made-for-Pathfinder options than the other classes had when they first released.

[Ramza00]

Ssalarn got any ideas for the Rajah (the Akasha / Path of War class.)

[thelastorphan]

Thanks a lot.

Ssalarn, do you have any advice on what to do with the Totem Chakra Bind abilities? Do you think the Totemist is largely fine as is or is something like the link Psyren posted better?

I didn;t expect someone who worked on Akashic Mysteries to respond to this, so thank you, I think its a cool book and the first 3rd party one I have bought for PF.

[Ssalarn]

Thanks a lot.

Ssalarn, do you have any advice on what to do with the Totem Chakra Bind abilities? Do you think the Totemist is largely fine as is or is something like the link Psyren posted better?

I didn;t expect someone who worked on Akashic Mysteries to respond to this, so thank you, I think its a cool book and the first 3rd party one I have bought for PF.

Of all the Incarnum classes, totemist is closest to being Pathfinder appropriate as presented (with the necessary conversions between systems, of course). So you've got a few options. When I've brought totemist into a Pathfinder game, I usually give it the natural attack and breath weapon veils from the daevic, and today I'd probably also give it the Dryad's Verdancy and Unicorn's Caparison sets from the Radiant list, though between Akashic Mysteries, City of 7 Seraphs, Classes of the Lost Spheres: The Zodiac, and the Akashic Realms line, I've got so much made-for-Pathfinder akashic material I don't tend to have Magic of Incarnum get requested or used much anymore. The totem soulmelds I never felt the need to transfer between classes one way or the other; they're kind of the class's shtick and they sit pretty nicely on top of things with minimal conversion if you're bringing a totemist into PF.

If you're ever curious about the standards of the system when making homebrew options or doing conversions, I actually have a Akashic Design Standards (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jXcOSEITHLEBh4AcSsYfnAT4GRm2J3KZ3qedU8f53eo/edit?usp=drivesdk) doc that describes how everything is balanced on the Pathfinder side, including essence values, progression, bind effects, etc.

[Psyren]

That design doc looks like it will be a fantastic read; bookmarked.

For Totemist, I agree that it shouldn't need much increase to be "PF-ready." Certainly I would look at other PF animals and magical beasts for ideas for more melds.

[thelastorphan]

Of all the Incarnum classes, totemist is closest to being Pathfinder appropriate as presented (with the necessary conversions between systems, of course). So you've got a few options. When I've brought totemist into a Pathfinder game, I usually give it the natural attack and breath weapon veils from the daevic, and today I'd probably also give it the Dryad's Verdancy and Unicorn's Caparison sets from the Radiant list, though between Akashic Mysteries, City of 7 Seraphs, Classes of the Lost Spheres: The Zodiac, and the Akashic Realms line, I've got so much made-for-Pathfinder akashic material I don't tend to have Magic of Incarnum get requested or used much anymore. The totem soulmelds I never felt the need to transfer between classes one way or the other; they're kind of the class's shtick and they sit pretty nicely on top of things with minimal conversion if you're bringing a totemist into PF.

If you're ever curious about the standards of the system when making homebrew options or doing conversions, I actually have a Akashic Design Standards (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jXcOSEITHLEBh4AcSsYfnAT4GRm2J3KZ3qedU8f53eo/edit?usp=drivesdk) doc that describes how everything is balanced on the Pathfinder side, including essence values, progression, bind effects, etc.

I thought the Totemist might be mostly fine as is, I love the feel of it so I am glad to get some confirmation of that. I will have to take a deeper look at that document as I am very interested in making sure I can use as much of my favorite subsystem as possible.

[Efrate]

Totemists to me are closest to a wrath(vengence) daevic. IE natural attack blender with some tricks. Your passion veils are kind of totem chakra plus. A daevic doesn't have quite the options (maybe) a totemist does, but it is better at the whole turn your foes into a fine paste.

A daevic with shape veil for any oddball powers seems like it might fit the bill a bit better but that's just me. Totemists at d8 and 3/4 BaB always bugged me, frontline combatants need minimum d10 and full BaB, con focus helps a totemist a bit but the chasis seems underpowered.

My 2 copper.

[Psyren]

A daevic with shape veil for any oddball powers seems like it might fit the bill a bit better but that's just me. Totemists at d8 and 3/4 BaB always bugged me, frontline combatants need minimum d10 and full BaB, con focus helps a totemist a bit but the chasis seems underpowered.

My 2 copper.

Pathfinder has plenty of 3/4 BAB classes that are excellent frontline combatants - Magus, Inquisitor, Warpriest, Hunter, CoDzilla, Battle Oracle, Hyde Alchemist, Champion Medium, Dervish Dancer Bard, etc. The key is simply for them to get attack bonuses outside of BAB - which Totemist does.

[stack]

And BAB is less critical for natural attack blenders anyway. No iterative attack penalty. Getting a pile of primary natural attacks isn't too hard, given the natural attack rule changes from 3.5 to PF1.

(How easy it is to optimize a build into a natural attack blender in either system is a separate discussion)

[Psyren]

And BAB is less critical for natural attack blenders anyway. No iterative attack penalty. Getting a pile of primary natural attacks isn't too hard, given the natural attack rule changes from 3.5 to PF1.

(How easy it is to optimize a build into a natural attack blender in either system is a separate discussion)

That's another good point - Totemists would arguably be even stronger than before since many of their natural attacks would count as primary instead of just one.