Does the Component Pouch contain multiple 25 feet ropes

[Merudo]

A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material Components and other Special Items you need to cast your Spells, except for those Components that have a specific cost.

The spell Snare has "25 feet of cord or rope" as a material component, without a specific cost.

Does this mean the component pouch hold 25 feet of cord or rope?

Presumably it should hold much more than 25 feet, to allow for repeated castings of the spell.

[stoutstien]

There are actually quite a few spells that don't have a costly component that start to get nonsense it'll when you look into the details.
For this one I would say yes if the rope is only used for the spell. Not like that would suddenly make it worthwhile.

[Civis Mundi]

I would presume that it couldn't possibly fit in a spell component pouch. That said, most equipment packs (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/equipment#EquipmentPacks) include 50' of rope, and they are included in starting equipment. Chances are, at least someone's got twice the rope you need.

[ftafp]

The rope in snare is a consumed material component. You must supply it separately even though a price is not listed

[Evaar]

A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material Components and other Special Items you need to cast your Spells, except for those Components that have a specific cost.

The spell Snare has "25 feet of cord or rope" as a material component, without a specific cost.

Does this mean the component pouch hold 25 feet of cord or rope?

Presumably it should hold much more than 25 feet, to allow for repeated castings of the spell.

No, because the Snare spell consumes the rope. Thus using a component pouch as an arcane focus does not satisfy the material component requirement for the spell. So the component isn't included in the standard component pouch.

[Mellack]

RAW, the pouch has all the cords you need as they do not have a specific price attached. It doesn't matter if it is consumed. There are many spells that consume the items, or have odd items to find in a pouch. Armor of Agathys means your pouch has a cup of water. Protection from Good and Evil uses up holy water. A component pouch by definition has all you need of those.

[Civis Mundi]

RAW, the pouch has all the cords you need as they do not have a specific price attached. It doesn't matter if it is consumed. There are many spells that consume the items, or have odd items to find in a pouch. Armor of Agathys means your pouch has a cup of water. Protection from Good and Evil uses up holy water. A component pouch by definition has all you need of those.

If it didn’t matter if the materials were consumed or not, why would the text specify that it did for some spells and not for others?

[Zhorn]

The ultimate by-RAW compromise

A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.

SNARE
Components: S, M (25 feet of rope, which the spell consumes)
As the component has no cost attached, yes you can use a Components Pouch in place of the specific material component (25 feet of rope in this case).

If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell.
The Snare spell consumes its material component.
Components Pouch (as a whole, not its contents) is used in place of the spell's material components.
The Components Pouch (whole) is consumed in the spell's casting when used in place of the 25 feet of rope.

so no... you cannot use the Component Pouch for multiple casting's of Snare. One and done.

[AdAstra]

Considering that real-world snares for small game can be made from like, piano wire-sized cord, it can easily be justified as basically string.

[Greywander]

The Snare spell consumes its material component.
Components Pouch (as a whole, not its contents) is used in place of the spell's material components.
The Components Pouch (whole) is consumed in the spell's casting when used in place of the 25 feet of rope.

so no... you cannot use the Component Pouch for multiple casting's of Snare. One and done.
That's... bizarre. I'd never noticed this before, but this does appear to be a strictly RAW reading. The component pouch or spell focus can sub for a material component. If it says the component is consumed, then it disappears after you cast the spell. These are two separate statements which, taken together, would imply that a component pouch or spell focus is itself consumed if the material component is consumed. The pouch/focus only takes the place of the material component, the component is still consumed, and so the pouch or focus taking the components place would be consumed in instead.

However, I doubt that it's intentional that a spell focus would be consumed. Likewise, I doubt the entire pouch would also be consumed, but I could see an argument for only having a limited number of casting for such spells (at least, until you visit a town and can refill your pouch).

[Zhorn]

However, I doubt that it's intentional that a spell focus would be consumed. Likewise, I doubt the entire pouch would also be consumed, but I could see an argument for only having a limited number of casting for such spells (at least, until you visit a town and can refill your pouch).
The RAI on the matter would be you need to supply the rope for each casting of snare. The trying to weasel out of that with using a Component's Pouch by RAW should take RAW as a whole, not picking and choosing to get the outcome wanted while ignoring the stuff that doesn't work as desired.
This is why I called it the ultimate compromise; no one gets what they want :smalltongue:

[Chronos]

I don't think that the component pouch contains all of those various odds and sods referred to by all of the various spells (rose petals, bat guano, and so on). I think that it's more like a medicine pouch, that contains objects of personal mystical significance, and might well even be sewn shut. You then wave the whole pouch around while casting a spell, in the same way that you'd wave a wand, staff, or crystal used as a focus.

But rope has a listed cost, so I'm not sure how it's even relevant here. Rope is 1 GP per 50', so 5 SP for the amount needed for Snare. Or ten times that much, if you want to be fancy, but Snare rope doesn't need to be silk.

[Greywander]

But rope has a listed cost,
It doesn't list a cost in the spell description. Does it need to if it's an item that's already listed in the equipment list? The rules say you can sub a component pouch or spell focus for any component without a listed price. Does that price need to be listed under the spell? I feel like it should, just for clarity's sake. After all, we assume that all items have a price, they're just not all listed in the equipment section. If, for some reason, you didn't have a spell focus or component pouch, you would need to find or buy all the material components individually, so it's not as though unlisted items don't have prices, we just don't know what they are and the DM would have to improvise. For spellcasting rules, I feel like the component price should be listed in the spell description itself, otherwise it doesn't count.

[nickl_2000]

This thread is exactly why I use foci (focuses?). There is so much less weird interactions that way.

[CapnWildefyr]

It doesn't list a cost in the spell description. Does it need to if it's an item that's already listed in the equipment list? The rules say you can sub a component pouch or spell focus for any component without a listed price. Does that price need to be listed under the spell? I feel like it should, just for clarity's sake. After all, we assume that all items have a price, they're just not all listed in the equipment section. If, for some reason, you didn't have a spell focus or component pouch, you would need to find or buy all the material components individually, so it's not as though unlisted items don't have prices, we just don't know what they are and the DM would have to improvise. For spellcasting rules, I feel like the component price should be listed in the spell description itself, otherwise it doesn't count.

From the writing standpoint, it would be a nightmare to list the cost of everything everywhere. Just keeping the prices the same in each of the 20 places it's listed for 40-50 things is insane. Desktop publishing software only can do so much before the complexity kills you.

I've always read it that the component pouch is a way to periodically buy all the unlisted, small stuff. Bat guano, lint, fireflies, sand, whatever. Can you imagine going into town and pestering the DM for prices on string, lint, bird doo, sulfur ("how many grains of sulfur did you need, sir?"), nails, wood chips, yada yada. So instead you shell out cash for one thing to cover it all for a while.

I do not see the pouch as a one-shot - it just contains the little things. It's refillable. But for anything listed, like rope, gems, a magnifying glass, whatever - you have to buy them individually, and technically you have to track their usage.


This thread is exactly why I use foci (focuses?). There is so much less weird interactions that way.
I agree, but to be clear you still need the rope in this case. Mostly, I don't know anyone who tracks components too closely. Most people I know only care about the big stuff, and mark off some gold every time they're in town to cover costs, or we just assume they did.

[CapnWildefyr]

Another way to look at it: in my PHB p151, "A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in the spell's description)." OK. But it weighs 2 lbs. A 25' rope weighs 5 lbs. Even backpacks have rope 'strapped to the side of it,' not inside of it. So the answer is: a component pouch holds zero 25' ropes because they won't fit and weigh too much. Yes, you can play games with the RAW because they're 'sloppy' but a better question might be: "Can I just substitute a big vine, or a couple of vines twisted together into a rope?" Does the spell say it has to be an Acme brand, snare-quality, zero impurity, weather-resistant, AAA grade rope? Or just a rope?

[Quietus]

The ultimate by-RAW compromise


As the component has no cost attached, yes you can use a Components Pouch in place of the specific material component (25 feet of rope in this case).

The Snare spell consumes its material component.
Components Pouch (as a whole, not its contents) is used in place of the spell's material components.
The Components Pouch (whole) is consumed in the spell's casting when used in place of the 25 feet of rope.

so no... you cannot use the Component Pouch for multiple casting's of Snare. One and done.

Okay now that's funny. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I love it!

[Necrosnoop110]

Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.

If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components. (Source (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#MaterialM))


Snare (XGE p165)
1st-level abjuration
"When you finish casting, the rope disappears and the circle becomes a magic trap."

[Mjolnirbear]

Component Pouch. A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a Spell's description).

Regardless of the relative weight, it holds the rope. This is not the time to stretch your feeling of verisimilitude. After all, price is hardly an effective way to measure weather a waist pouch can hold something. It's a plot device to make casting easier and simpler. If you like, consider it extradimensional space. Did you really think it had enough pouches to fit hundreds of components? It's a polite fiction that, conveniently, is backed up by the items description.

Every time you cast snare, you pull out rope from your component pouch and the rope is consumed. That's the RAW.

Now RAW, other focuses such as wands or holy symbols do not have material components so perhaps you could rule this way. Why would you? All that would encourage is the caster claiming he had the rope and uses that cause rope is cheaper than any arcane focus or holy symbol and all of a sudden you're back in the game-bogging minutia that the focus was invented to prevent.

I seem to recall when the focus concept was invented in Next that they had a blurb or two. IIRC the component pouch was assumed to be filled by the caster as you adventure, picking up the necessary pieces off-screen as you stomped goblins and rescued princes.

[RSP]

The ultimate by-RAW compromise


As the component has no cost attached, yes you can use a Components Pouch in place of the specific material component (25 feet of rope in this case).

The Snare spell consumes its material component.
Components Pouch (as a whole, not its contents) is used in place of the spell's material components.
The Components Pouch (whole) is consumed in the spell's casting when used in place of the 25 feet of rope.

so no... you cannot use the Component Pouch for multiple casting's of Snare. One and done.

This would also hold true if using a focus, as they are also “in place of.”

[LibraryOgre]

A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material Components and other Special Items you need to cast your Spells, except for those Components that have a specific cost.

The spell Snare has "25 feet of cord or rope" as a material component, without a specific cost.


Just because the cost of the rope isn't listed in the spell doesn't mean that rope does not have a cost.

[dagfari]

I don't think that the component pouch contains all of those various odds and sods referred to by all of the various spells (rose petals, bat guano, and so on).


Did you really think it had enough pouches to fit hundreds of components?

How I've always run it (until 5e went and changed how preparing spells and spell slots works) is that preparing the inexpensive spell components is part of how the Wizard spends their rest hours preparing spells. They might have a tackle-box in their adventuring gear that they draw from, and replenish it when they can, along the way.

They also spend this time memorizing by feel which compartments in the pouch contain which spell components, so they can draw the correct components without looking as they go to cast the spell. They don't need to fit all the components for all the spells they could possibly know - just what they intend to cast that day. This is all hand-waved as "you've done this" for gameplay's sake, the player doesn't have to make a list of what's in the component pouch unless I'm running 1e or 2e.

But the rope? I think RAW, it somehow fits into the compartment of the component pouch. But at my table I'd probably say they had already cut a piece of rope from their coil and had it prepared in advance. Or, they may have substituted a length of string, or even one strand separated from a braided rope.

[Mellack]

Just because the cost of the rope isn't listed in the spell doesn't mean that rope does not have a cost.

It is not only rope, it is rope or cord. Cord has no listed price. Rope also comes in different types with different costs.

[LibraryOgre]

It is not only rope, it is rope or cord. Cord has no listed price. Rope also comes in different types with different costs.

And?

Do you really think cord is completely free? Because they didn't bother to include the price of it? If someone writes an Arms and Equipment sourcebook that lists "cord", does it suddenly empty out of every component pouch?

[Greywander]

How I've always run it (until 5e went and changed how preparing spells and spell slots works) is that preparing the inexpensive spell components is part of how the Wizard spends their rest hours preparing spells. They might have a tackle-box in their adventuring gear that they draw from, and replenish it when they can, along the way.
This is actually a kind of interesting idea. I could see the wizard having a component sack (or maybe just a pocket on their backpack) that contains all of their components, and they swap them out as needed into the pouch when preparing spells. Whenever you stop in town, it's assumed you refill the sack for a negligible gold cost. And actually, most components aren't consumed, so they wouldn't even need to be replaced.

Edit:

And?

Do you really think cord is completely free? Because they didn't bother to include the price of it? If someone writes an Arms and Equipment sourcebook that lists "cord", does it suddenly empty out of every component pouch?
This is exactly why I think the cost should be listed in the spell description. If a spell currently has a consumed component with no listed cost, it is assumed that a spell focus or component pouch can sub for it. If a later book is published that contains a list of new items with prices, and one of those items is the component for that spell, does that spell suddenly become impossible to cast using a spell focus or component pouch?

I realize it would be a pain to list prices in two places, but I do think the spell rules require it. Remember, every item has a cost, if it's not listed then it's left up to the DM to decide the price. The only way we can really know for sure is if the spell lists a cost (or doesn't).

[nickl_2000]

And?

Do you really think cord is completely free?...

Yes definitely, if the price isn't listed in the phb it is free. Just like all those"jokes" I heard when I used to be a cashier about how things missing a price tag were free

[Contrast]

Just because the cost of the rope isn't listed in the spell doesn't mean that rope does not have a cost.

If we go down this line of argument, all spell components would have some theoretical monetary value though and the component pouch would contain nothing.

[Christian]

I think the important distinction is for items that actually are on the equipment list with a cost. And yes, there are possible weird interactions if an item that was previously presumed to be included in a component pouch suddenly shows up on a new equipment list in a supplement; the DM would need to decide how to handle that in the individual instance.

But in this case, the item is listed in the Player's Handbook. And there's a good reason to not list the price of the rope in the spell description; it could be 5 sp or 5 gp depending on whether you get hempen rope or silk. Conceivably other types or rope could turn up in future supplements, and would be valid components for Snare at potentially different prices.

There are no spells in the PHB that I could find with consumed material components that are items on the equipment list. But there are several with non-consumed components that are weapons (eg. the Druid cantrip Shillelagh, and several Ranger spells that use ammunition or thrown weapons as material components). And it doesn't seem to be RAI that these are included in a component pouch or replaceable by a focus; if a Druid has a yew wand, he doesn't need mistletoe or a shamrock leaf to cast Shillelagh, but he still needs to supply a club or quarterstaff. And a Bard who takes Conjure Volley as a Magical Secret doesn't get to pull unlimited handaxes out of his component pouch or musical instrument (?!) to cast the spell on.

[Aimeryan]

I realize it would be a pain to list prices in two places, but I do think the spell rules require it. Remember, every item has a cost, if it's not listed then it's left up to the DM to decide the price. The only way we can really know for sure is if the spell lists a cost (or doesn't).

Exactly - if the rule is simply 'if it has a cost somewhere in existence then it must be provided manually', well that covers everything then. If the rule is 'if it has a listed cost in the spell description then it must be provided manually' then that actually has a reasonable implementation.

Yeah, the rope being consumed and provided by the component pouch is weird given it has no cost listed - I'm just chalking it up to magic, seems right.

[micahaphone]

See this is why I waive most equipment concerns. Jesse the player didn't think to pick up rope before leaving town to adventure but Barnabus the ranger definitely would have. I let Jesse retroactively buy the rope mid-dungeon.

[AvatarVecna]

Heaven help us if WotC ever ports "Apocalypse From The Sky" to 5e.

[Willie the Duck]

Another way to look at it: in my PHB p151, "A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in the spell's description)." OK. But it weighs 2 lbs. A 25' rope weighs 5 lbs.

Well, it we are following the RAWbbit all the way down the hole, a 25' rope doesn't weigh 5 lbs, because rope only exists in 50' units.

[deljzc]

My ruling on this is the rope/cord described in Snare spell is NOT the same as utility adventuring rope that is part of standard equipment lists.

A snare, by definition is a small thing used to catch rabbits, squirrels, rodents, etc. Snare wire (in real life) is very thin. Old school snare "rope" is very thin as well. The whole point was it was thin enough to camouflage, strong enough not to break from a rabbit or similar sized creature.

To me, that type of snare rope, is what is required to cast this spell. 25' does seem excessive when in reality an effective snare might only take 5'. Snare rope in D&D universe is relatively inexpensive (coppers) and I would probably describe the semantic component as creating a "loop" and miniature snare out of a piece of snare rope and triggering the snare in your hand as you cast the spell (that's purely descriptive fluff).

Makes sense to me.

[Joe the Rat]

And my thought to all this is "why isn't there 25' of cord/wire in the PHB? I need something between string and rope."

[Greywander]

See this is why I waive most equipment concerns. Jesse the player didn't think to pick up rope before leaving town to adventure but Barnabus the ranger definitely would have. I let Jesse retroactively buy the rope mid-dungeon.
I've actually used this as a class feature on a homebrew class. You can retroactively buy things from the last town you were in, even if it doesn't make sense for you to still have the item. For example, if all your equipment got destroyed by a rust monster, you could use this feature to have bought a sword the last time you were in town that you just "forgot" about until now, and it wouldn't have been destroyed by the rust monster (somehow, it's as if the item didn't exist until you "remembered" that you had it). You could also use this to smuggle items into places they're not supposed to be, like retroactively buying a weapon after you're inside a weapon-free area.

I like this ability for a utility character. I think it would fit well on a rogue or bard subclass, for example. The way I wrote it, there's a gold limit on how much you can buy, and it only resets once you return to town, which should prevent a lot of possible shenanigans.

[Contrast]

My ruling on this is the rope/cord described in Snare spell is NOT the same as utility adventuring rope that is part of standard equipment lists.

A snare, by definition is a small thing used to catch rabbits, squirrels, rodents, etc. Snare wire (in real life) is very thin. Old school snare "rope" is very thin as well. The whole point was it was thin enough to camouflage, strong enough not to break from a rabbit or similar sized creature.

To me, that type of snare rope, is what is required to cast this spell. 25' does seem excessive when in reality an effective snare might only take 5'. Snare rope in D&D universe is relatively inexpensive (coppers) and I would probably describe the semantic component as creating a "loop" and miniature snare out of a piece of snare rope and triggering the snare in your hand as you cast the spell (that's purely descriptive fluff).

Makes sense to me.

Keep in mind we are casting a spell, not physically creating a snare. Regardless, its clearly not a rabbit snare - you can catch orgres and horses and bears in this thing.

[stoutstien]

On the same train of thought, how much powdered silver/holy water does protection from G/E need? Magic circle and ceremony take similar material components but have a specific cost.

[Cerefel]

Would a component pouch contain a big rope? Probably not. Might it contain something like a ball of yarn or twine? Sure

[CapnWildefyr]

Yes definitely, if the price isn't listed in the phb it is free. Just like all those"jokes" I heard when I used to be a cashier about how things missing a price tag were free

:smallbiggrin:


I think the important distinction is for items that actually are on the equipment list with a cost. And yes, there are possible weird interactions if an item that was previously presumed to be included in a component pouch suddenly shows up on a new equipment list in a supplement; the DM would need to decide how to handle that in the individual instance.

But in this case, the item is listed in the Player's Handbook. And there's a good reason to not list the price of the rope in the spell description; it could be 5 sp or 5 gp depending on whether you get hempen rope or silk. Conceivably other types or rope could turn up in future supplements, and would be valid components for Snare at potentially different prices.

There are no spells in the PHB that I could find with consumed material components that are items on the equipment list. But there are several with non-consumed components that are weapons (eg. the Druid cantrip Shillelagh, and several Ranger spells that use ammunition or thrown weapons as material components). And it doesn't seem to be RAI that these are included in a component pouch or replaceable by a focus; if a Druid has a yew wand, he doesn't need mistletoe or a shamrock leaf to cast Shillelagh, but he still needs to supply a club or quarterstaff. And a Bard who takes Conjure Volley as a Magical Secret doesn't get to pull unlimited handaxes out of his component pouch or musical instrument (?!) to cast the spell on.

Yes.


Well, it we are following the RAWbbit all the way down the hole, a 25' rope doesn't weigh 5 lbs, because rope only exists in 50' units.

A 50' rope is listed as 10 lbs. If I cut it in half, it's 5 lbs/half. Wasn't trying to be fancy.


On the same train of thought, how much powdered silver/holy water does protection from G/E need? Magic circle and ceremony take similar material components but have a specific cost.

In magic circle you have to presumably make a big circle with holy water/whatever. Prot v G/E doesn't have that.