How do you mire the mind of the mindless? (For Bards)

[prototype00]

For people who have experienced it, what is the general strategy for Bards vs Golems (or other such foes that aren’t amenable to mind tricks)?

I’m guessing picking up some direct damage with magical secrets or dissonant whispers.

[diplomancer]

Easier one is probably to buff another party member, like casting Greater Invisibility on the party Rogue.
If you are a grapple bard, you could grapple one on a cloud of daggers.
If you anticipate facing many golems during your campaign, Confusion becomes a good pick. Golems have strong condition immunities, but, maybe for that reason, not very good Wis saves. Confusion is the rare will save that does not depend on imposing a condition, and works regardless of condition immunities.

So, this is your big-gun spell, your first action. Afterwards, if you're the grapple bard, Dodge. Otherwise, as long as your spell is active you are already helping out the party considerably, so just shooting with a crossbow is alright (try to buy Walloping Bolts just so as to have magical damage if you can't find a magical crossbow). If you've used Confusion, you can even approach the Golem to take the Help action and then run back, as it can't take reactions. Obviously, if you've dipped Hexblade, you can Eldritch Blast.

[prototype00]

Easier one is probably to buff another party member, like casting Greater Invisibility on the party Rogue.
If you are a grapple bard, you could grapple one on a cloud of daggers.
If you anticipate facing many golems during your campaign, Confusion becomes a good pick. Golems have strong condition immunities, but, maybe for that reason, not very good Wis saves. Confusion is the rare will save that does not depend on imposing a condition, and works regardless of condition immunities.

So, this is your big-gun spell, your first action. Afterwards, if you're the grapple bard, Dodge. Otherwise, as long as your spell is active you are already helping out the party considerably, so just shooting with a crossbow is alright (try to buy Walloping Bolts just so as to have magical damage if you can't find a magical crossbow). If you've used Confusion, you can even approach the Golem to take the Help action and then run back, as it can't take reactions. Obviously, if you've dipped Hexblade, you can Eldritch Blast.

Ah, confusion is a good one, I didn't know that. As is buffing (Bards certainly do get greater invisibility as a 4th level spell).

[Dr. Cliché]

Huh. I hadn't realised that Confusion worked on anything in this edition.

Good to know. :smallamused:

[diplomancer]

Huh. I hadn't realised that Confusion worked on anything in this edition.

Good to know. :smallamused:

Actually, neither did I until I went to try and find answers to the OP's question :)
I'm changing my Bard's spell choices right now (we play with UA Spell Versatility)

[Dr. Cliché]

Actually, neither did I until I went to try and find answers to the OP's question :)
I'm changing my Bard's spell choices right now (we play with UA Spell Versatility)

I might be playing a bard soon, so this was definitely useful to discover.

Also, I found another possibility - Blindness/Deafness. It seems to work on most enemies, too (ones with actual Blindsight might be immune, but I think a lot of undead and constructs will be affected normally). The main drawback is that it's a Constitution save, but if it works then it lasts for 1 minute with no Concentration required and no additional saves allowed.

Given that Blindness gives them Disadvantage and all attacks against them Advantage, it could be a hefty buff for the rest of the party against an otherwise powerful construct or undead.

I think Confusion will usually be the better choice, if only because of the save, but Blindness might be worth trying in a pinch.

[diplomancer]

I might be playing a bard soon, so this was definitely useful to discover.

Also, I found another possibility - Blindness/Deafness. It seems to work on most enemies, too (ones with actual Blindsight might be immune, but I think a lot of undead and constructs will be affected normally). The main drawback is that it's a Constitution save, but if it works then it lasts for 1 minute with no Concentration required and no additional saves allowed.

Given that Blindness gives them Disadvantage and all attacks against them Advantage, it could be a hefty buff for the rest of the party against an otherwise powerful construct or undead.

I think Confusion will usually be the better choice, if only because of the save, but Blindness might be worth trying in a pinch.

Blindness actually gives additional saves. It's a good spell, since it requires no Concentration, but not a very good option on the high-Con brutes, it usually doesn't stick for more than 1, maybe 2 rounds.

[Dr. Cliché]

Blindness actually gives additional saves

So it does.

Apparently I'm the one who's blind. :smalleek:

[BenTheJester]

Also, I found another possibility - Blindness/Deafness. It seems to work on most enemies, too (ones with actual Blindsight might be immune, but I think a lot of undead and constructs will be affected normally). The main drawback is that it's a Constitution save, but if it works then it lasts for 1 minute with no Concentration required and no additional saves allowed.

Blindness doesn't require concentration, but gives a save every turn