[3.5] 8 bullrushes in a standard action?

[keeper2161]

So say you are level 16. You are a bloodstorm blade, a master thrower (palm thrower) and have the feat manticore's sting and knockback. Because manticore's sting (manyshot for throwing weapons) rolls only once would that be only one bullrush attempt? Or because you are throwing eight weapons and are "hitting" with eight weapons, just using one attack roll, you do eight bullrushes? The feat knockback specifically says on a hit not attack roll. But what constitutes a hit? An attack roll or rolling weapon damage?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Because Knockback refers specifically to "hit" and "foe hit" rather than "attack", I think you do get a bull rush for each enemy you actually hit, not just one bull rush for the whole attack.

EDIT: For another take on the 'oodles of bull rushes' character concept, check out my Atriox (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23999697&postcount=95) build. Not really suitable for a player, given the insane number of feats (and thus HD) required to get it off the ground, but I do think it would make for a pretty cool villain.

[Darg]

Knockback requires using power attack which can only be used on melee attacks. When using a thrown weapon in melee it is no longer a thrown weapon.

Brutal throw can't be used with knockback.

[Doctor Despair]

Knockback requires using power attack which can only be used on melee attacks. When using a thrown weapon in melee it is no longer a thrown weapon.

Brutal throw can't be used with knockback.


On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.


If you score a hit while you are using the Power Attack feat, you can make a free bull rush attempt against the foe you hit, applying the number by which you reduced your attack roll as a bonus on the opposed Strength check (as well as on the damage you deal). If you hit with a twohanded weapon, you can apply double that number on the opposed Strength check. Unlike standard bull rush attempts, knockback attempts don't provoke attacks of opportunity, and you don't move with the enemy you knock backward. Bull rush rules can be found on page 154 of the Player's Handbook.

Even more technically, Knockback requires that you use power attack. Once you are using power attack, you gain the benefits of knockback on your foes that you hit. There are additional effects if you are using a twohanded weapon. Knockback doesn't mention melee weapons anywhere, only that you are using power attack.

The text of powerattack says that before making attack rolls, you can subtract from your melee attack rolls and add to damage attack rolls, up to your BAB. It does not say you actually have to make any attacks, and in fact, there may be melee fighters who choose to use power attack on their turn out of expectation that they may have to make AOOs during enemy initiative. Using power attack, therefore, is unrelated to the actual making of a melee attack; even an unarmed person can use power attack once per turn up to their BAB and never make any melee attacks at all.

In summation: I don't think that power attack normally subtracting from melee to-hit and adding to melee damage means that you cannot use Knockback on non-melee attacks, although obviously that was the intention when they wrote Knockback. RAW vs RAI; it's a tale as old as time.

[Darg]

I stand corrected. Sneak attacks require nothing more than a touch after all.

What I could find of what a hit is was under the description of what an attack was:


Attack Roll

An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target’s Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.

Based on this description and of damage:


When your attack succeeds, you deal damage.

Each successful attack is considered a hit since the use of "and" means they are separate concepts, but resolved simultaneously. This would mean that multiple instances of damage would not necessarily be guaranteed classified as a "hit." This brings the conclusion that manticore's sting and other single attack roll abilities are single hit.

This is reinforced by the description of a critical hit:


Critical Hits

When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target’s Armor Class, and you have scored a threat. The hit might be a critical hit (or "crit"). To find out if it’s a critical hit, you immediately make a critical roll—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the critical roll also results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit. It doesn’t need to come up 20 again.) If the critical roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.